The Abbott Government

[sydboy007]

Surprised at no mention of the $80 bil + ship building pork barrel.

Did anyone one else have trouble not throwing up listening to Abbotts comments about his government doing good work making these promises?

Further support for the car industry may have turned out cheaper.

Funny how the free market philosophy is dumped as soon as it seems they might lose the treasury benches.

The fact they have that fear with a 35 seat majority and an inchoate opposition leader doesn't bode well for much happening till the next election, maybe not even then if one of the Laberals don't have a a strong majority and need to horse trade with minor parties.

Does Abbott pull the trigger before the end of the year, or does he take his chances with a devastatingly bad MYEFO that will leave the budget bare of any ability to buy votes? Possibly now is the time to start being honest with the punters? Less ideology and a bit more pragmatism. Not sure if that will go down too well in voter land unless Abbott can somehow get people to believe he's a conviction politician, and he's shown little of that over the years.

 

[noco]

Surprised at no mention of the $80 bil + ship building pork barrel.

Did anyone one else have trouble not throwing up listening to Abbotts comments about his government doing good work making these promises?

It is so difficult to win with you lefties.

On the one hand you criticize Abbott for not doing enough for workers in the ship building industry and in the next breath when he does something to make the unions happy in South Australia, you brand him of pork barreling.

Gillard gave the over seas corporate car industry ( not local companies) enough taxpayers money to keep manufacturing cars until 2020, so why are they pulling out so much earlier (2017)?.....It was supposed to keep the small local part suppliers in operation until they could diversify into other products.

 

[sydboy007]

It is so difficult to win with you lefties.

On the one hand you criticize Abbott for not doing enough for workers in the ship building industry and in the next breath when he does something to make the unions happy in South Australia, you brand him of pork barreling.

Gillard gave the over seas corporate car industry ( not local companies) enough taxpayers money to keep manufacturing cars until 2020, so why are they pulling out so much earlier (2017)?.....It was supposed to keep the small local part suppliers in operation until they could diversify into other products.

RBA lead the Govt to drink the coolaid on the never ending resource boom. The AUD was going to be perpetually high, rivers of revenue were going to flow endlessly.

An artificially high AUD, due in part to the over investment of the resource industry massacred local manufacturing. Maybe not letting 3 LNG trains to be developed at the same time in QLD might have helped. Maybe not allowing the massive mine expansions to go on concurrently would have been good policy, and saved shareholders from the large writedowns they're facing.

Over investment in the electricity networks, along with the lack of a gas reservation policy for domestic users, has meant local industry faces higher energy costs than most of our competitors. You don't get to be so up the effluent creek without a paddle like we are without years and years of poor policy decisions.

Lack of vision by the laberals for over a decade has lead us to the situation where we'll be in the company of NZ as the only rich countries without a local car manufacturing industry.

I'm not sure why we can't afford to invest in rail when there's plenty of funds for the military.

 

[noco]

RBA lead the Govt to drink the coolaid on the never ending resource boom. The AUD was going to be perpetually high, rivers of revenue were going to flow endlessly.

An artificially high AUD, due in part to the over investment of the resource industry massacred local manufacturing. Maybe not letting 3 LNG trains to be developed at the same time in QLD might have helped. Maybe not allowing the massive mine expansions to go on concurrently would have been good policy, and saved shareholders from the large writedowns they're facing.

Over investment in the electricity networks, along with the lack of a gas reservation policy for domestic users, has meant local industry faces higher energy costs than most of our competitors. You don't get to be so up the effluent creek without a paddle like we are without years and years of poor policy decisions.

Lack of vision by the laberals for over a decade has lead us to the situation where we'll be in the company of NZ as the only rich countries without a local car manufacturing industry.

I'm not sure why we can't afford to invest in rail when there's plenty of funds for the military.

Ha...things went from good to bad 2007/2013...Rudd/Gillard/Rudd.

The manufacturing industry was massacred years ago by the corrupt unions.....Don't blame the Liberals.

 

[IFocus]

It is so difficult to win with you lefties.

On the one hand you criticize Abbott for not doing enough for workers in the ship building industry and in the next breath when he does something to make the unions happy in South Australia, you brand him of pork barreling.

Gillard gave the over seas corporate car industry ( not local companies) enough taxpayers money to keep manufacturing cars until 2020, so why are they pulling out so much earlier (2017)?.....It was supposed to keep the small local part suppliers in operation until they could diversify into other products.

No believes its about jobs but trying to up the polls anyone that believes Abbott will deliver is a mug.......IMHO

 

[noco]

No believes its about jobs but trying to up the polls anyone that believes Abbott will deliver is a mug.......IMHO

So Shorten wasn't after votes with his dramatic speech to the unions about building over priced subs in Australia?

 

[Tisme]

No believes its about jobs but trying to up the polls anyone that believes Abbott will deliver is a mug.......IMHO

No one believes the hachneyed "unions at fault" excuse either. We were one of the richest if not the richest per capita countries with unions of trade workers in the mix starting almost 20 years before we decided we might be able to govern ourselves and make our own fortunes and own mistakes.

Those unions are men and women, not some kind of deity that exists to be the punching bag of wannabe blue bloods and failed businessmen. Successful companies embrace their workforce and include them in the growth strategies and rewards systems..... doomed to fail businesses do battle and invariably their otherwise loyal employees wreak damage on the brand.

Newscorp and it's subsidiary, the LNP, should at least have the guts to to change "unions" to "Australian men and women workers" when they headline the usual blame game for weak management of the country..... no matter which party is wrecking the place at the time.

 

[SirRumpole]

No one believes the hachneyed "unions at fault" excuse either. We were one of the richest if not the richest per capita countries with unions of trade workers in the mix starting almost 20 years before we decided we might be able to govern ourselves and make our own fortunes and own mistakes.

Those unions are men and women, not some kind of deity that exists to be the punching bag of wannabe blue bloods and failed businessmen. Successful companies embrace their workforce and include them in the growth strategies and rewards systems..... doomed to fail businesses do battle and invariably their otherwise loyal employees wreak damage on the brand.

Newscorp and it's subsidiary, the LNP, should at least have the guts to to change "unions" to "Australian men and women workers" when they headline the usual blame game for weak management of the country..... no matter which party is wrecking the place at the time.

I agree with that, but there no doubt that an organised mass of people provides opportunities for thuggery, extortion and self gratification of those in charge of the unions, and we have certainly seen this manifested in the past in terms of airline strikes, petrol strikes, train strikes, green bans and the like.

That we have had 30+ years of relative industrial peace owes a lot to the likes of the Hawke/Keating reforms and moderate union leaders like Shorten, (even though vestiges of thuggery still remain in the Labor party's factional system) than it does to any "reforms" like Workchoices made by the Conservatives.

People like Crean, Rudd, Latham & co have fought to reduce this influence and make the Labor party more representative. They still have a way to go, but they have made advances.

 

[noco]

No one believes the hachneyed "unions at fault" excuse either. We were one of the richest if not the richest per capita countries with unions of trade workers in the mix starting almost 20 years before we decided we might be able to govern ourselves and make our own fortunes and own mistakes.

Those unions are men and women, not some kind of deity that exists to be the punching bag of wannabe blue bloods and failed businessmen. Successful companies embrace their workforce and include them in the growth strategies and rewards systems..... doomed to fail businesses do battle and invariably their otherwise loyal employees wreak damage on the brand.

Newscorp and it's subsidiary, the LNP, should at least have the guts to to change "unions" to "Australian men and women workers" when they headline the usual blame game for weak management of the country..... no matter which party is wrecking the place at the time.

You seem to overlook the fact we are living in the 21 st century and the work place has had some dramatic changes from the last century when we never had it so good.......Mining and manufacturing were thriving and the demand for higher wages, particularly in mining, was easy to get, however those days are now gone with the poor prices for coal and iron ore most companies have had to curtail their operations......But it seems many from from the left and the corrupt unions are incessant in blaming the Abbott government.

Successful companies embrace selective workers in their growth strategies and avoid the loafing union hacks whose sole intent is on how much they can get out of their boss for as little work as possible.....conscientious employees are rewarded for their efforts and productivity results.....Believe me...I have been on both sides.

Then we have to put up with the rot from the Greens who have sabotaged the the largest coal mining project in Queensland because they say it with disrupt the life of a skink and an ornamental rare snake.......Coal which was destined for India for power plants where some 300,000,000 are still without electricity....Up to 10,000 jobs have been lost due to the Greens stupidity....Queensland's unemployment has now reached 6.7%.

I often repeat John F. Kennedy...."Think what you can do for your country and not what your country can do for you"......The problem with many in this country of ours, we are too greedy and want everything for nothing.

 

[Smurf1976]

Part of the issue here is that at the local level, much of Australia is basically a Third World economy and has been for years.

WA - Dig it up and ship it out. Classic Third World stuff.

Qld - Same as WA with the addition of tourism. Again that's Third World stuff.

NT - Again, not much more than natural resource exploitation one way or another.

Tas - Mixed in terms of actual activity but government policy has, with the exception of a brief period early this decade, focused heavily on natural resource extraction - that's Third World stuff.

SA - Was a developed economy as such but has fallen in a heap due to the impacts of events in other states plus lack of scale locally.

Which leaves NSW and Vic as the only states that could really be considered as "advanced economies" in terms of actual activity and are managing to do it with enough scale to be useful. I didn't mention ACT since it's a government city in terms of economics and probably always will be. Necessary yes, but it will never likely become a net income earner for Australia.

We have a lot of issues in WA and Qld especially as the mining boom winds down. But that was always inevitable and there's no point blaming unions, environmentalists or anyone else for that outcome, it never could have lasted and so it didn't. The question isn't why has mining investment fallen in a heap? The question is how did we end up with such high reliance upon it in the first place? Economically at least, WA is up there with the likes of Saudi Arabia in terms of a total lack of economic sustainability. Once the iron or oil is gone, that's it, game over. Completely unsustainable and the proverbial blind Freddy could see what's going to happen in the long term.

It's a fairly safe bet that 35 years from now, coal mining in Qld will be an irrelevant activity economically and LNG will be at the end of the line too. Iron ore in WA will be well on the way to being stuffed by then too. Better start planning now for what's inevitable.

PS - no offence intended to anyone living in any particular state. I'm just calling it as I see it - digging stuff up or cutting it down and loading it onto ships with little if any processing is classic Third World stuff. We can't expect to sustain a high standard of living with that approach.

 

[noco]

Part of the issue here is that at the local level, much of Australia is basically a Third World economy and has been for years.

WA - Dig it up and ship it out. Classic Third World stuff.

Qld - Same as WA with the addition of tourism. Again that's Third World stuff.

NT - Again, not much more than natural resource exploitation one way or another.

Tas - Mixed in terms of actual activity but government policy has, with the exception of a brief period early this decade, focused heavily on natural resource extraction - that's Third World stuff.

SA - Was a developed economy as such but has fallen in a heap due to the impacts of events in other states plus lack of scale locally.

Which leaves NSW and Vic as the only states that could really be considered as "advanced economies" in terms of actual activity and are managing to do it with enough scale to be useful. I didn't mention ACT since it's a government city in terms of economics and probably always will be. Necessary yes, but it will never likely become a net income earner for Australia.

We have a lot of issues in WA and Qld especially as the mining boom winds down. But that was always inevitable and there's no point blaming unions, environmentalists or anyone else for that outcome, it never could have lasted and so it didn't. The question isn't why has mining investment fallen in a heap? The question is how did we end up with such high reliance upon it in the first place? Economically at least, WA is up there with the likes of Saudi Arabia in terms of a total lack of economic sustainability. Once the iron or oil is gone, that's it, game over. Completely unsustainable and the proverbial blind Freddy could see what's going to happen in the long term.

It's a fairly safe bet that 35 years from now, coal mining in Qld will be an irrelevant activity economically and LNG will be at the end of the line too. Iron ore in WA will be well on the way to being stuffed by then too. Better start planning now for what's inevitable.

PS - no offence intended to anyone living in any particular state. I'm just calling it as I see it - digging stuff up or cutting it down and loading it onto ships with little if any processing is classic Third World stuff. We can't expect to sustain a high standard of living with that approach.

Smurf, I think you are looking a little bit on the negative side in regard to mining.....During my life time I have observed the ups and downs in the mining industry going back to the 1960's when commodity prices hit an all time low and in particular copper, lead, zinc and sliver hence the reason Mt Isa mines organized a 9 months strike and they paid Pat Mackie $60,000 to instigate it......The mine was not viable during that period but then prices for metals began to rise and the company negotiated with the unions to return to work.

Prices for coal and iron ore will rise again and it is anticipated it will happen in 2016.....there has been a slow down in demand and that is a correction we have to live with.......India need lots of coal to fire up cheap electricity for 300,000,000 people without power and the set back to the Adani coal mine in Queensland will, I am sure, will be overcome....Coal is still the cheaper source of electricity and will be in demand for many decades to come.

You commented on the Northern part of Australia as some what being in the doldrums but you have overlooked how viable the cattle industry has been and is now increasing with the latest agreement with China.....The redevelopment of agriculture in the northern part of Australia is a must but will require more dams for water. storage.

We have to look away from doom and gloom and be some what more optimistic for our future but there also has to be bi-partisan support from both sides of politics with the national interest always in mind and that has somewhat been lacking......Political point scoring has to stop.

 

[SirRumpole]

Political point scoring has to stop.

Yes, but it won't, you and I know that.

Government is the big game and both sides want it, and need it for their continued survival. People won't vote for a compliant Opposition that is just a pushover for the Government. That's why Tony Abbott made it his job to oppose everything.

Shorten is more concilliatory, but there has to be points of difference to distinguish one Party from the other, otherwise no one would want to be a politician if they spend their lives on the Opposition benches.

 

[noco]

Yes, but it won't, you and I know that.

Government is the big game and both sides want it, and need it for their continued survival. People won't vote for a compliant Opposition that is just a pushover for the Government. That's why Tony Abbott made it his job to oppose everything.

Shorten is more concilliatory, but there has to be points of difference to distinguish one Party from the other, otherwise no one would want to be a politician if they spend their lives on the Opposition benches.

I think the difference here is that Abbott was opposing and trying to curtail Labor's extravaganza spending while Labor is opposing Abbott's savings as in Labor's own commitment to save $6 billion which Labor now opposes.

In this case who has the national interest at heart?

 

[SirRumpole]

I think the difference here is that Abbott was opposing and trying to curtail Labor's extravaganza spending while Labor is opposing Abbott's savings as in Labor's own commitment to save $6 billion which Labor now opposes.

In this case who has the national interest at heart?

The old "extravagant spending" argument again. It's been pointed out numerous times here that Labor governments have been far more restrained in spending over the years than past Coalition governments especially Howard, who even his own Treasurer thought was a spendthrift.

 

[So_Cynical]

All in all considering that the Noalition haven't really done anything other than stop and or slow down things, NBN, Boats, Funding for almost everything except the deficit etc...why are they doing so badly?

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Australian_election_polling_-_two_party_preferred.png

Sure the rorts thing is a negative and the many blunders of Tony - but no game changers or major stuff ups...and yet they are way behind on the 2 party prefered and have been for 20 months and continue to trend lower.
~

 

[SirRumpole]

All in all considering that the Noalition haven't really done anything other than stop and or slow down things, NBN, Boats, Funding for almost everything except the deficit etc...why are they doing so badly?

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Australian_election_polling_-_two_party_preferred.png

Sure the rorts thing is a negative and the many blunders of Tony - but no game changers or major stuff ups...and yet they are way behind on the 2 party prefered and have been for 20 months and continue to trend lower.
~

No major blunders or stuff-ups ?

Like "no changes to health" followed by a $7 co payment ?

"no changes to education" followed by a pullout over Gonski and increases in uni fees ?

"no changes to pensions" followed by changing the indexation arrangements and increasing the retirement age ?

Abbott is polling badly because the public simply don't trust him or his Treasurer who is being seen as the ultimate hypocrite over his "end to entitlements" guff, and they are worried about what they will do IF they get back again.

It's not rocket science, if you lie to the public your political stocks plummet.

 

[sptrawler]

Abbott's polling badly, because he's Abbott, the media hate him with a passion.

It will be interesting, come election time, whether the silent majority prefer Abbott or Shorten.

 

[noco]

Abbott's polling badly, because he's Abbott, the media hate him with a passion.

It will be interesting, come election time, whether the silent majority prefer Abbott or Shorten.

It depends on whether Shorten survives the next grilling at the RC into union corruption.

IMHO I would like to see a change in leadership from Abbott to Morrison before Xmas 2015....I don't think Abbott can climb out of the hole the left wing ABC media have put him in.

 

[SirRumpole]

I don't think Abbott can climb out of the hole the left wing ABC media have put him in.

Ho ho ho .

Is the ABC more influential than Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt ?

Surely not.

 

[sptrawler]

It depends on whether Shorten survives the next grilling at the RC into union corruption.

IMHO I would like to see a change in leadership from Abbott to Morrison before Xmas 2015....I don't think Abbott can climb out of the hole the left wing ABC media have put him in.

I think that is spot on noco, it isn't just the ABC, it has become a media sport. They all abuse Abbott and Abbott is reluctant to front them, I think Morrison would make more of a fist of it.

Abbott being non combatant with the media, gives them free reign, to project whatever they like. It's easy journalism.

Also Morrison is more polarising than Abbott, it's black and white, where Abbott and Shorten, try to paint everything beige.

Australia is sliding backwards into the whirlpool, towards the S bend, they need someone to stand up and grow a pair.

Neither party is showing any signs of doing so.IMO