The Abbott Government

[Julia]

How about we freeze your pension for a start?

Unjustified and gratuitous personal assumption there.

 

[drsmith]

On "Insiders" today, when that photo was screened and mention made of the article in Harpers Bazaar, Fran Kelly still had to make it all about Julia Gillard, commenting that Ms Bishop's suggestion that women should just get on with it and stop whining was actually a barb directed at Gillard's misogyny speech.

It was a remark on a par with her support for those who booed Abbott and Howard at the Gough memorial.

What nonsense. Julie Bishop is not disposed to be part of the feminazi brigade and doesn't need to be precious or over-sensitive. She does exactly as she suggests, and just gets on with her job. Great role model imo.

The ABC didn't stop there,

ABC24 asks an odd and oddly negative - question:

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailyteleg..._anti_fossil_fuel_story_too_fake_for_the_abc/

 

[drsmith]

Vlad's tie is somewhat off centre,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-11/abbott-and-putin-meet-to-discuss-mh17-at-apec-summit/5883592

 

[sydboy007]

If all the money raised was spent on roads etc then fuel excise could be considered as a means of paying for that infrastructure mostly by those who use it. But in practice, there's a very loose link between excise and road funding such that it is in practice and energy tax more than a road funding tax.

Politically, the fuel pain will arrive at some future time when oil prices go up and the AUD has dropped. That's when we'll hear the screams about excise. In the meantime, government is basically (in a political sense) taking advantage of falling oil prices to raise a tax at a time when petrol prices aren't much of an issue politically.

John Oliver had a memorable way of putting it when he was examining how US states use lottery taxes to fund education yesterday.

"Money in state budgets tends to move around a lot. Trying to add money for just one purpose is a bit like trying to piss in one corner of a swimming pool. It's going to go all over the place, no mater what you claim."

Pretty much the same when a Government tries to hypothecate revenue and spending to specific areas.

 

[sydboy007]

It really is hard to see where our growth is going to come from, we are a high taxing, high wages, high energy cost economy.
Add to that, the fact it is much more efficient to transport raw iron ore, than processed steel.
Then throw in the fact we are a very small market and it really is complicated.

Then supplying one of the best welfare, health and education systems in the world.
Also the highest priced housing, indexed pensions, tax free super, concesionally treated savings and tax deductable investment loans.

Then you have the Federal and State Government costs with the members and their staff, cars, perks and costs.
Add to that the unfunded cost of the Federal and State retired members and their tax free indexed super, plus perks.

Seems like the elastic band is stretched somewhat.lol

Even if taxes are increased in the select areas, the underlying problem of supplying welfare and low personal tax rates has to have some underlying growth to support it.

Where that first world economy is going to come from, to support our first world lifestyle, I certainly can't see it.

We are actually a quite low energy cost country. Electricity wholesale prices have been on a downward trend for around a decade. We're very competitive in terms of wholesale electricity prices. We're not competitive in the distribution networks or the retail side. The near doubling of retail prices over the last 6 years was pretty much all due to over spending on infrastructure and retailers increasing their margins.

We did have some of the lowest natural gas prices in the world, until we decided to link ourselves into the Asian market. We further compounded our problems by allowing 3 gasification plants at curtis island to be built at the same time, while 2 large deep water LNG plants were being built off the WA coast, and a further plant in Darwin was built. Strangely the management of the various companies didn't foresee the massive boom in costs that occurred. So now domestic users are facing a potential tripling in wholesale gas prices added on top of a boom in distribution costs, while at the same time the LNG plants sit at near the top of the cost curve and likely to be uncompetitive against the new Russia - China pipelines and USA LNG exports. To add salt into the wound they now want to build a $1B pipeline to bring northwest shelf gas to the east coast, while we export gas from the east coast to Asia.

Using more efficient taxes would actually help the economy because you could reduce the headline tax rates and still achieve the revenue goals. Company and pay roll taxes lose around 40c in the dollar collected. Lower them and replace with land tax that has a 2c in the dollar loss and you could drop company taxes. Broaden the GST and reduce income taxes and kill off inefficient state taxes like stamp duty.

The promises made during the past election have hamstrung the Govt in their potential options to meet the challenges we're facing. No one forced themt o make so many rash promises. How does one increase spending, reduce the deficit, lower taxes all while the economy is slowing and the participation rate continues it's decline? I'd say either you're lying, or if you believe that's possible, then you shouldn't be responsible for the local raffle, let alone the Australian economy.

 

[SirRumpole]

John Oliver had a memorable way of putting it when he was examining how US states use lottery taxes to fund education yesterday.

"Money in state budgets tends to move around a lot. Trying to add money for just one purpose is a bit like trying to piss in one corner of a swimming pool. It's going to go all over the place, no mater what you claim."

Pretty much the same when a Government tries to hypothecate revenue and spending to specific areas.

Yes, true.

A way around this problem is for the Federal government to take over some State responsibilities like Kevin Rudd proposed to do with the public hospitals, but on which Labor lost its bottle after they threw Rudd out.

No more blame game over the health system, the Feds are responsible for the lot, and the States have large amounts of revenue freed up that they could use for other things.

But of course, we won't see this under an Abbott government, because they are lazy and they don't want more responsibility in case they stuff up.

 

[dutchie]

I think that would be news to Swan.

So would the fact that he never delivered a surplus.

 

[noco]

Yes, true.

A way around this problem is for the Federal government to take over some State responsibilities like Kevin Rudd proposed to do with the public hospitals, but on which Labor lost its bottle after they threw Rudd out.

No more blame game over the health system, the Feds are responsible for the lot, and the States have large amounts of revenue freed up that they could use for other things.

But of course, we won't see this under an Abbott government, because they are lazy and they don't want more responsibility in case they stuff up.

Actually, the states have always been responsible for health.

Queensland's health system was fully funded by the Golden casket under Joh's government until that lazy Labor Premier Beattie sold off the Golden Casket for $599,000,000 because he could not manage the state's economy....He and Anna Bligh tried to reduce unemployment by increasing the public service and then had to borrow money to pay their wages.

Kevin Rudd wanted to deny the states of 60% of the GST to fund the health system, but you can bet your boots that whole slice of the cake would not have gone to health.

I know the lefties keep pounding the bitumen about Abbott's lies but if you fellows were genuine and honest, you would understand that adjustments have to be made as times change......revenues drop.....social security payments have to be continued .....infrastructure and services have to be maintained......and at the same time Labor's debt and deficit has to be paid back.

I have seen history repeating itself over and over again........Labor spends more than it earns.....Labor increases the public servants more than they need.....never gets into surplus....always leaves one hell of a mess for the LNP to clean up......and just when the LNP get things right, they say it is time for a change......the Labor Party gets back into Government and we get on the roller coaster ride again.......around and around we go, upside down and in the end we come to a sudden halt again.

If it wasn't funny it would be laughable.

 

[sptrawler]

Using more efficient taxes would actually help the economy because you could reduce the headline tax rates and still achieve the revenue goals. Company and pay roll taxes lose around 40c in the dollar collected. Lower them and replace with land tax that has a 2c in the dollar loss and you could drop company taxes. Broaden the GST and reduce income taxes and kill off inefficient state taxes like stamp duty.

The promises made during the past election have hamstrung the Govt in their potential options to meet the challenges we're facing. No one forced themt o make so many rash promises. How does one increase spending, reduce the deficit, lower taxes all while the economy is slowing and the participation rate continues it's decline? I'd say either you're lying, or if you believe that's possible, then you shouldn't be responsible for the local raffle, let alone the Australian economy.

The tax system is going to require a major make over, both sides need to get over the childish crap and address the problem.

Unless the polliticians and the media stop this current circus, consumer confidence is going to be non existent.
While they are all have fun with the argy bargy, the general public know the situation is worsening, they also know it isn't going to improve without changes.

Your last paragraph just highlights how important it is to have a shot at Abbott, rather than just getting on with repairing the issues. It basically undermines your first paragraph, if the tax system needs fixing, fix it, who cares if someone called it wrong, sack him. But that wouldn't be enough, everyone obviously wants him up on the cross, it borders on blood lust.IMO

 

[Tisme]

I believe those luxury lurks and perks are about to be cut and not before time.

We have stopped making things here because of the high cost of wages, increased annual leave, leave loading, penalty rates etc. etc. thanks to the unions dating back to the 50's..we are now paying the price......we would need a wage freeze for the next ten years and back to 40 hours a week and do a fair days work for a fair days pay if we were to become competitive again.......not that it is likely to happen.

Agreed the Federal and State politicians for the LNP should practice free market and be renumerated based on shareholder satisfaction. For fairness the board of directors should be Anglo American, as per most of the big corporations. The productivity markers and kpis would be set at election with full disclosure to shareholders.

The ALP should be paid as a percentage of the national commune income.

 

[Tisme]

The tax system is going to require a major make over, both sides need to get over the childish crap and address the problem.

I must admit I was surprised the mining and carbon taxes were repealed, when it could have added heaps of cash to treasury and the LNP could claim it was ALP legacy. Simply insulting Clive everytime it came up for repeal would have ensured it lasted forever and the ALP forever dogged by it.

As it is the saving promised by Campbell Newman doesn't eventuate for another three years and that is only going to offset a projected doubling of power costs in five years ....whoopy!

 

[sydboy007]

The tax system is going to require a major make over, both sides need to get over the childish crap and address the problem.

Unless the polliticians and the media stop this current circus, consumer confidence is going to be non existent.
While they are all have fun with the argy bargy, the general public know the situation is worsening, they also know it isn't going to improve without changes.

Your last paragraph just highlights how important it is to have a shot at Abbott, rather than just getting on with repairing the issues. It basically undermines your first paragraph, if the tax system needs fixing, fix it, who cares if someone called it wrong, sack him. But that wouldn't be enough, everyone obviously wants him up on the cross, it borders on blood lust.IMO

Half the problem we have is the fact Abbott has backed himself into a corner in terms of tax reform and being able to take action NOW.

He either has to wait to the next election or he has to break promises.

So far he's wiggling around semantics with an excise not being a tax increase, or increasing costs in other ways.

I'd have more respect for Abbott if he'd do what's needed and take the flack for breaking his ill thought promises. The fact he's in a near holding pattern for 3 years doesn't bode well for us.

 

[So_Cynical]

I must admit I was surprised the mining and carbon taxes were repealed, when it could have added heaps of cash to treasury and the LNP could claim it was ALP legacy. Simply insulting Clive everytime it came up for repeal would have ensured it lasted forever and the ALP forever dogged by it.

See now that would of been smart, totally uncharacteristic of the Noalition.

 

[Logique]

Bit of a digression, but Matthias Cormann handled himself pretty well on Kitchen Cabinet last night.

A smart cookie, he cracked Annabelle's chocolate cigar right in half, he wasn't falling into that trap.

Gotta love a guy who likes his Moules frites and Stella Artois replete with stubby holder.

 

[Smurf1976]

We are actually a quite low energy cost country. Electricity wholesale prices have been on a downward trend for around a decade. We're very competitive in terms of wholesale electricity prices. We're not competitive in the distribution networks or the retail side.

We're competitive as long as you've got a huge demand for power, enough to be dealing directly with a generator, have no need to use the distribution system and don't need gas in your operations.

But we're not at all competitive in the context of smaller manufacturers (ie the vast majority of factories that don't have potlines, cell rooms or electric arc furnaces) or general commercial and residential uses.

So we've still got reasonably cheap electricity as such, it's just that 99.9% of users can't access it cheaply.

 

[sptrawler]

Half the problem we have is the fact Abbott has backed himself into a corner in terms of tax reform and being able to take action NOW.

He either has to wait to the next election or he has to break promises.

So far he's wiggling around semantics with an excise not being a tax increase, or increasing costs in other ways.

I'd have more respect for Abbott if he'd do what's needed and take the flack for breaking his ill thought promises. The fact he's in a near holding pattern for 3 years doesn't bode well for us.

I agree with those sentiments, the longer we leave it the bigger the problem and the general public understands it also.

If iron ore hits $60/Ton we will have an issue, and it won't be the MRRT, or lack of it.
Even Rio and BHP will be looking at closing mines, the flow on unemployment, will be hard felt in W.A.

The whole tax system requires an hollistic approach to make it sustainable. I'm no expert, but can see the current system, is from another era and needs to be revamped.

Propping up ridiculous company models, while burdening start up companies, won't cut it in a global economy.

The list goes on and have been covered endlessly.

However the time is arriving where, if we want to enjoy the trappings of a first world economy, we had better ensure we have one.

 

[sydboy007]

maybe Joe needs to take on board what Treasury Secretary Martin Parkinson said earlier in the year:

Genuine tax reform… requires more than an across the board cut in tax rates – it is about improving the structure of the tax system to reduce the cost that raising revenue imposes on the economy. In other words, it is as much about how much revenue is raised, as how it is raised.

Though I doubt Joe will want to remember his own uttering as a newly minted treasurer

The government was committed to “more realistic long-term assumptions on the economic and fiscal outlook

or Mathias Corman

It is a matter of record that the previous government invariably overestimated revenue and underestimated expenditure. They kept promising surplus budgets and kept delivering more deficits. Our core commitment with this budget update is to draw a line in the sand as the Treasurer said and to provide a believable set of figures

or Christopher Pynes humdinger back in 2011

Well if there had been a Coalition government for the last five years, Kieran, I think most people accept that we would have had continuing surpluses

not quite so easy in Government as when you're a non responsibility opposition.

 

[drsmith]

maybe Joe needs to take on board what Treasury Secretary Martin Parkinson said earlier in the year:

Though I doubt Joe will want to remember his own uttering as a newly minted treasurer

or Mathias Corman

or Christopher Pynes humdinger back in 2011

not quite so easy in Government as when you're a non responsibility opposition.

It's all relative and then there's the senate.

Wayne Swan's surpluses were delivered according to him. The surplus years were here were they not ??

And Bill shorten, he just wants to revive a carbon tax and spend.

As for the reform process, the tax white paper and federation review are on their way. I know you're keen to see it and I'd suggest the white paper will see greater light of day than Labor's Henry Review.

 

[sptrawler]

not quite so easy in Government as when you're a non responsibility opposition.

Well they are going to have to 'man up', before the next election.

My guess, Abbott has to fall on his sword, he has made a target on his back with the no new taxes, Labor and the media have hung on it, like a dog on an ear.

The only way they can throw it, is to replace Abbott, the other option is to have Labor win the next election and let them hand out the flogging.lol

 

[sydboy007]

My guess, Abbott has to fall on his sword, he has made a target on his back with the no new taxes, Labor and the media have hung on it, like a dog on an ear.

I don't seem to remember you being so negative about the opposition and media when they were gunning for Gillard.