The Abbott Government

[Tisme]

The farmers are not the same farmers......the farmers today are a bunch of softies....you never heard of suicides.

Since 1921 (see Table A in the Appendix) the rate of suicide has fluctuated considerably, therefore it is important to look at the rate over time to see where these changes have occurred and what major events may have influence these movements. The age-standardised death rate is the preferred measure to follow changes over time as it takes into account changes in the population size.

For the total population, the suicide rate peaked in 1963, reaching 17.5 per 100 000 persons. However for male suicide deaths the highest rate occurred during the Great Depression of 1930 when the rate reached 28.1 deaths per 100 000, followed by 23.7 in 1963 and 23.6 in 1997. For females, the peak occurred in the 1960s when the rate rose above 10 deaths per 100 000. This increase among women in the 1960s has been attributed in part to the unrestricted availability of hypnotic and sedative drugs.[19]

Over the last decade there has been a gradual decline of male suicide deaths, from 23.6 deaths per 100 000 (1997) to 14.9 deaths per 100 000 (2009). However an increase occurred in 2007 and 2008 (16.2 and 16.7 respectively) after a dip to 13.6 deaths in 2006. This increase could be attributed to improvements in data collection and review as discussed in Limitations of suicide data. Data for 2008 and 2009 will be revised, mostly likely upwards, as a result caution needs to be taken when interpreting the most recent data.

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliam...brary/pubs/BN/2011-2012/Suicide#_Toc299625618

 

[Tisme]

Thread title is The Abbott Government not blame the Fabians for Nolaition policy.



.

I knew we shouldn't have trusted him

 

[Julia]

Are you suggesting that people (voters) in general are happy to have their pay frozen or reduced to 1.5% PA pay rises when inflation is running at close to 3%? or budget crisis denial?

I have no more idea than you have. Do a substantial survey and then get back to us rather than make assumptions about what people think.

Labor never said it was impossible to stop the boats, can you find a link to that? substantiate that claim?

In about one minute - in response to googling "Labor's claims that the boats could not be stopped", several references popped up. Try it and see for yourself.
This following just happens to be the first one:

When he was immigration minister O’Connor said boats couldn’t be stopped.

“Well, of course, it’s absurd to say what Tony Abbott said, which is the boats will be stopped if he were to be elected, within months,” said O’Connor. “He knows that’s a lie. He knows that that is not going to happen.”

When Tony Burke took over as minister he raised fears that turn-backs would lead to asylum-*seekers drowning (an audacious attack given the 1200 deaths under Labor). “When cornered,” he said of the Coalition, “they’ve even acknowledged that that’s the limitation of their turn back boats policy.”

Most emphatic of all, of course, was Rudd. When he was trying to undermine Julia Gillard to regain the prime ministership in June last year, he upped the ante on *Abbott’s policy. “He says he will stop the boats and he will send them back to Indonesia, that is an absolute lie,” said Rudd. “He knows that. Everyone who knows this area of policy well knows that. It’s more of a slogan than a substantive policy position.”

His foreign minister, Bob Carr, agreed. “He is right, it is a lie. The idea that a boat with 200 people on it, delivered into Australian waters by a *people-smuggler, can simply be told to turn around and go back to Indonesia, or that Australian border security forces are going to be able to cart it to an Indonesian port, is a fantasy.”

Soon after reclaiming the prime ministership, Rudd turned up the volume to 11. “I’m very concerned,” he said of Abbott’s turn-back policy, “I really wonder whether he’s trying to risk some sort of conflict with Indonesia.”

The most extraordinary observation on Labor’s wrongheadedness was how it was largely endorsed by the ABC, Fairfax press and much of the press *gallery.

Never mind that turnbacks had worked under the Howard government or that Labor’s approach had triggered only chaos, deaths and a dramatic acceleration of boat arrivals — the political elite criticised the Coalition’s policies.

Labor’s argument, effectively, was that the Coalition had a pretend plan for a problem that was insoluble; and it had many convinced. In July 2012 Michelle Grattan declared in The Age that turn-backs shouldn’t be tried.

“It’s not just the danger posed by the turnaround policy; it’s also the Indonesians’ resistance to it that is a problem,” she wrote. In The Sydney Morning Herald Phil Coorey said the Indonesians would “no longer allow it”.

And in The Australian Financial Review Laura Tingle was arguing not only that the policy was problematic but that it was losing political impact: “When people in focus groups are asked whether they believe Tony Abbott can really ‘stop the boats’, they don’t believe it.”

The fact is, in five months from December last year, 12 boats were turned back and this year only one boat has delivered asylum-seekers to Australia. Turn-backs worked and the boats were stopped.

Many people were emphatically wrong, for a long time, yet the air of unreality continues. After Abbott won power last year and started to implement Operation Sovereign Borders, Labor and some journalists saw trouble.

In November Tingle wrote that the Coalition was preparing “for the inevitable time when ambitious claims made in opposition — such as ‘we will turn back the boats’ — proved to be impossible to implement”.

Network Ten and Radio *National commentator Paul Bongiorno tweeted: “Government backdown sinks tow back or turn back the boats boast, Indonesia calls the shots as predicted for 3 years.”

In a new high point of chutzpah three months later, when it was revealed turn-backs had been successful (so Bongiorno had actually been wrong for three years), he tweeted this: “Boat turn backs was always going to work. But at what cost?” Indeed.

"The Australian" 31 October 2014

 

[Tisme]

In about one minute - in response to googling "Labor's claims that the boats could not be stopped", several references popped up. Try it and see for yourself.
This following just happens to be the first one:

We don't really know if the boats have been stopped or not, because the data is cloaked in secrecy provisions; which kinda makes me feel the truth is being concealed.

I suspect when the $3 to 4bn annual costs can longer be sustained the gates on the detention islands will be opened and the flood levies will spill over with the same refugees plus their growing families.... that will be just before the Libs lose to the ALP

 

[noco]

I have no more idea than you have. Do a substantial survey and then get back to us rather than make assumptions about what people think.


In about one minute - in response to googling "Labor's claims that the boats could not be stopped", several references popped up. Try it and see for yourself.
This following just happens to be the first one:


"The Australian" 31 October 2014

Good one Julia.....I was about to do the same myself.

The Fabians are absolutely hopeless and they won't to run the country again.

 

[IFocus]

Meanwhile back at the ranch the house is in flames, must be those nasty Fabians stuth when will they stop wrecking this great government?

Director sentiment keeps falling, half say Federal Government hurting business

A survey of around 500 board members by the Australian Institute of Company Directors (AICD) has found that more than 40 per cent now do not believe that the Federal Government understands business, while almost 40 per cent believe it does.

The survey also finds that almost half of directors now believe the Federal Government's performance is negatively affecting their business decision making, and almost three-quarters noting a negative effect on consumer confidence.

Fabians are the problem

However, the AICD's chief executive John Colvin said much of the business community's concern is directed towards the Senate, rather than solely at the Government.
Audio: Business leaders losing confidence in Abbott Government (The World Today)

"An overwhelming majority of directors believe the make-up of the Senate has an adverse impact on both business confidence and consumer confidence," he noted in the report.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-05/director-sentiment-keeps-falling/5867722

 

[noco]

Meanwhile back at the ranch the house is in flames, must be those nasty Fabians stuth when will they stop wrecking this great government?

Director sentiment keeps falling, half say Federal Government hurting business



Fabians are the problem



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-05/director-sentiment-keeps-falling/5867722

IFocus, don't take too much notice of that propaganda coming out of the ABC.

We all know how biased the ABC is, as it is run by the Fabians, so what else would you expect?

The ABC have got it wrong so many times....The ABC also know how to manipulate the news to discredit the LNP.

It is unfortunate, the naive believe it.

 

[SirRumpole]

IFocus, don't take too much notice of that propaganda coming out of the ABC.

We all know how biased the ABC is, as it is run by the Fabians, so what else would you expect?

The ABC have got it wrong so many times....The ABC also know how to manipulate the news to discredit the LNP.

It is unfortunate, the naive believe it.

The naive also believe Andrew Bolt and Alan Jones


I'll take the ABC any day over those two jokers.

 

[So_Cynical]

I have no more idea than you have. Do a substantial survey and then get back to us rather than make assumptions about what people think.

Julia ill go out on a limb here and go with a survey of one, people don't like pay freezes and or pay rises that don't at least keep up with inflation...and they dont like cold toast, lying politicians, getting robbed and wetting the bed.

 

[Smurf1976]

IFocus, don't take too much notice of that propaganda coming out of the ABC.

News Ltd, which isn't exactly known for supporting Labor in recent times, is also running the "business says Abbott is crap" line too.

If your natural supporters, business in the case of the Coalition, are saying you're not doing well and a normally favourable media outlet is reporting it well that says it all really.

http://www.themercury.com.au/busine...at-gillard-level/story-fnj6eg8g-1227113359155

 

[noco]

The naive also believe Andrew Bolt and Alan Jones


I'll take the ABC any day over those two jokers.

Well, of course you would side with the ABC because it suits your beliefs.

Alan Jones is not biased after the way he cut down the Newman Government in Queensland.

Andrew Bolt has also been critical of the Abbott Government.

But not the ABC.....they are blatantly biased......I cannot recall where the ABC has been critical of the Fabians.

The ABC break their charter every day of the week.....they are publicly funded and should abide by that charter.

 

[banco]

News Ltd, which isn't exactly known for supporting Labor in recent times, is also running the "business says Abbott is crap" line too.

If your natural supporters, business in the case of the Coalition, are saying you're not doing well and a normally favourable media outlet is reporting it well that says it all really.

http://www.themercury.com.au/busine...at-gillard-level/story-fnj6eg8g-1227113359155

Well abbott's public standing is built on stopping the boats and trying to look tough with Russia on MH 17 etc. none of which business could care less about.

 

[noco]

Well abbott's public standing is built on stopping the boats and trying to look tough with Russia on MH 17 etc. none of which business could care less about.

It is far better when you hear the whole story.

The Fabians love to cherry pick.



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...level-as-gillard/story-e6frg906-1227113303051

Nine out of 10 business leaders said the Senate’s opposition to budget measures had hurt business confidence, with a similar proportion seeing an affect on consumer sentiment.

“There’s a large frustration building up in the Australian population,” Mr Colvin said.

 

[Julia]

We don't really know if the boats have been stopped or not, because the data is cloaked in secrecy provisions; which kinda makes me feel the truth is being concealed.

Irrelevant. My post was a response to So Cynical's assertion that Labor had never claimed that it was impossible to stop the boats.
I provided reference to disprove that.

Julia ill go out on a limb here and go with a survey of one, people don't like pay freezes and or pay rises that don't at least keep up with inflation...and they dont like cold toast, lying politicians, getting robbed and wetting the bed.

Don't be silly. Your 'survey of one' is your opinion and nothing more.

News Ltd, which isn't exactly known for supporting Labor in recent times, is also running the "business says Abbott is crap" line too.

Which perhaps goes to some objectivity on the part of News Ltd, at least "The Australian" ( can't attest to the tabloid rubbish), which is contrary to frequent suggestions on this forum.

 

[noco]

Julia ill go out on a limb here and go with a survey of one, people don't like pay freezes and or pay rises that don't at least keep up with inflation...and they dont like cold toast, lying politicians, getting robbed and wetting the bed.

We are now paying the price for 6 years of Green/Labor stupidity...Don't you get it?

 

[drsmith]

Not a glowing endorsement by business by any means but within it I note the following,

However, the AICD's chief executive John Colvin said much of the business community's concern is directed towards the Senate, rather than solely at the Government.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-05/director-sentiment-keeps-falling/5867722?section=business

 

[Tisme]

Not a glowing endorsement by business by any means but within it I note the following,



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-05/director-sentiment-keeps-falling/5867722?section=business

If you watched the actual interviews there was not a lot of nice things said about the govt and it's ability to understand business. The qualifications and comparisons were rather sparse.

It was a news article that had to be printed because of the gathering, but cherrypicked by Newscorp to minimise any lasting damage to it's party.

 

[drsmith]

It was a news article that had to be printed because of the gathering, but cherrypicked by Newscorp to minimise any lasting damage to it's party.

The link and quote above is from the ABC, not Newscorp.

 

[drsmith]

We don't really know if the boats have been stopped or not, because the data is cloaked in secrecy provisions; which kinda makes me feel the truth is being concealed.

The boats have been stopped.

I suspect when the $3 to 4bn annual costs can longer be sustained the gates on the detention islands will be opened and the flood levies will spill over with the same refugees plus their growing families.... that will be just before the Libs lose to the ALP

I like a sense of humour.

 

[sptrawler]

Are you suggesting that people (voters) in general are happy to have their pay frozen or reduced to 1.5% PA pay rises when inflation is running at close to 3%? or budget crisis denial?
.

It was o.k to do it under the guise of a wages accord, when Hawke and Keating were in.

Why is it so outragous when the Coalition want to do it?