The Abbott Government

Smurf1976 · 3 November 2014

Tisme said:
It's almost like we are being run by girlyboys who can't negotiate without selling the family silver at a discount.

Like the Tas state government today. In short:

Unions took them to the Industrial Commission arguing for a public service pay freeze until the middle of next year.

Industrial Commission strongly recommended a pay freeze in the public service for 12 months. So longer than the Unions wanted, but a pay freeze nonetheless.

Government response is that they'll completely ignore the Commission, give workers a pay rise, and sack hundreds in order to pay for it.

These Liberals are making Labor look decidedly mature and sensible in comparison. I mean seriously, you've got someone handing you a solution so you spend $$$ on costly lawyers from interstate to argue against it. And when you lose that argument, you just ignore the umpire anyway. Truly amazing.

drsmith · 3 November 2014

Smurf1976 said:
Industrial Commission strongly recommended a pay freeze in the public service for 12 months. So longer than the Unions wanted, but a pay freeze nonetheless.

Government response is that they'll completely ignore the Commission, give workers a pay rise, and sack hundreds in order to pay for it.

Pay levels and numbers are two separate issues. The question with the latter is one of need.

A hard-core conservative government I would have thought would have taken the above advice and proceeded with the redundancies. Perhaps that was considered too politically unpalatable.

sptrawler · 3 November 2014

Smurf1976 said:
Like the Tas state government today. In short:

Unions took them to the Industrial Commission arguing for a public service pay freeze until the middle of next year.

Industrial Commission strongly recommended a pay freeze in the public service for 12 months. So longer than the Unions wanted, but a pay freeze nonetheless.

Government response is that they'll completely ignore the Commission, give workers a pay rise, and sack hundreds in order to pay for it.

These Liberals are making Labor look decidedly mature and sensible in comparison. I mean seriously, you've got someone handing you a solution so you spend $$$ on costly lawyers from interstate to argue against it. And when you lose that argument, you just ignore the umpire anyway. Truly amazing.

I'm not sure about the situation in Tassie, but over here in W.A I think the Govt is hell bent on removing people off the payroll and the super obligation.

sptrawler · 3 November 2014

drsmith said:
I wonder how many pass.
.

I missed that post doc, the problem with universities today isn't how many pass, but how many you can push in.

From that SMH article on universities:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/a-matter-of-degrees-20130530-2neo9.html

An extract:

Last year, the admission floodgates for most courses were thrown open by the removal of the government cap on how many places it would partially fund for local students. The effect of the change was immediate, with record numbers of students finding places in tertiary study for 2012.

As Glyn Davis, the chairman of Universities Australia, the peak body representing universities, said in a National Press Club address: "Almost every candidate who applied anywhere in Australia was offered a chance to study."

How we keep subsidising degrees, while relaxing the entrance requirements, is going to take some juggling.lol

Maybe everyone can go to uni, then we can pull straws, to see who picks up the garbage.

It's a bit like degrees in nursing, now they have problems with who cleans up the mess.

Smurf1976 · 4 November 2014

drsmith said:
Pay levels and numbers are two separate issues. The question with the latter is one of need.

Government says they want to cut PS numbers by x with an 18 month pay freeze.

Unions say how about a pay freeze until the end of the financial year and do a proper review of the PS staffing levels.

Government says negotiation or compromise can't happen, therefore will cut an additional number of workers and proceed with a pay rise.

Logically, I'd think that if the numbers add up then that ought to be sufficient. The unions seem to be being far more reasonable than the government here with their proposal for an immediate pay freeze and review of the PS. It's pretty much a reversal of the position one would logically expect - unions generally aren't keen on either pay freezes or staffing reviews anywhere.

It doesn't affect me personally, but it's doing a pretty good job of turning me into a "rusted on" supporter of anyone other than the Liberals. They're acting like children here, no other way to put it really.

It comes down to the Liberals' panic approach to everything. What, exactly, is wrong with putting the whole thing on hold until June next year, with a pay freeze in line with what the government wants in the mean time, so as to do a proper review of the PS? That seems pretty sensible to me, and it's a big risk on the part of the unions since they may not like the outcome of the review.

Something's awfully strange when it's the unions wanting pay freezes and staffing reviews whilst the government wants a pay rise. Strange indeed, and it reflects a lack of maturity and commonsense in my view.

I thought Labor was bad, but this mob are just losing the plot. Where's the political logic in unnecessarily cutting health, education etc simply for the sake of opposing a proper review? I really can't see how that gains too many votes beyond a few hardline right wing types of whom there aren't that many. At this rate, we'll end up with a hung parliament at the next election and another government involving the Greens.....

For what it's worth, Abbott seems to have a similar overall thought process so far as I can tell. We've gone from financially incompetent Labor governments to arrogant Liberals. Neither are doing much good for the country or state in the long term and it virtually ensures that we'll end up with another big swing as voters search for the "least bad" option. Labor and Liberal have both lost the plot in my view.

sptrawler · 4 November 2014

Smurf1976 said:
Government says they want to cut PS numbers by x with an 18 month pay freeze.

Unions say how about a pay freeze until the end of the financial year and do a proper review of the PS staffing levels.

Government says negotiation or compromise can't happen, therefore will cut an additional number of workers and proceed with a pay rise.

Logically, I'd think that if the numbers add up then that ought to be sufficient. The unions seem to be being far more reasonable than the government here with their proposal for an immediate pay freeze and review of the PS. It's pretty much a reversal of the position one would logically expect - unions generally aren't keen on either pay freezes or staffing reviews anywhere.

It doesn't affect me personally, but it's doing a pretty good job of turning me into a "rusted on" supporter of anyone other than the Liberals. They're acting like children here, no other way to put it really.

It comes down to the Liberals' panic approach to everything. What, exactly, is wrong with putting the whole thing on hold until June next year, with a pay freeze in line with what the government wants in the mean time, so as to do a proper review of the PS? That seems pretty sensible to me, and it's a big risk on the part of the unions since they may not like the outcome of the review.

Something's awfully strange when it's the unions wanting pay freezes and staffing reviews whilst the government wants a pay rise. Strange indeed, and it reflects a lack of maturity and commonsense in my view.

I thought Labor was bad, but this mob are just losing the plot. Where's the political logic in unnecessarily cutting health, education etc simply for the sake of opposing a proper review? I really can't see how that gains too many votes beyond a few hardline right wing types of whom there aren't that many. At this rate, we'll end up with a hung parliament at the next election and another government involving the Greens.....

For what it's worth, Abbott seems to have a similar overall thought process so far as I can tell. We've gone from financially incompetent Labor governments to arrogant Liberals. Neither are doing much good for the country or state in the long term and it virtually ensures that we'll end up with another big swing as voters search for the "least bad" option. Labor and Liberal have both lost the plot in my view.

I think that the situation is such, that there isn't an easy way out, also I believe the unions know this.

Tax reciepts falling, welfare and general Government expenses rising, business confidence in decline.

People wanting more from the Government and the Government getting less to supply it with.

Like I said in an earlier post, I believe it will get a LOT worse before it gets better, that is if it can get better.
Personally I think a reset in living standards to a new 'norm' is on the way.

drsmith · 4 November 2014

sptrawler said:
Personally I think a rfeset in living standards to a new 'norm' is on the way.

A significant portion of the federal public service with agreements expiring on June 30 this year have failed to get renewals thus resulting in a pay freeze by default. Neither the CPSU or government seem overly fussed about this in my view.

At a union level, I suspect its about numbers preservation in the PS. There may also be less inclination for a fight at a time when questionable conduct within elements of the union movement has had a high media profile in recent years.

Julia · 4 November 2014

drsmith said:
A significant portion of the federal public service with agreements expiring on June 30 this year have failed to get renewals thus resulting in a pay freeze by default. Neither the CPSU or government seem overly fussed about this in my view.

At a union level, I suspect its about numbers preservation in the PS. There may also be less inclination for a fight at a time when questionable conduct within elements of the union movement has had a high media profile in recent years.

+1. Agree with both points.

So_Cynical · 4 November 2014

Public servant pay freeze coupled with the lousy 1.5% for the defence force all done because of a "budget emergency" that no one other than the Noalition believes in...using up political capital.

noco · 4 November 2014

So_Cynical said:
Public servant pay freeze coupled with the lousy 1.5% for the defence force all done because of a "budget emergency" that no one other than the Noalition believes in...using up political capital.

But the Fabians cut the ADF budget to a low not seen since 1938....1.8% of GDP

The Fabians left a hell of a debt and deficit to the Coalition and that money has to be paid back.

The Fabians imposed a Carbon dioxide tax that cost the tax payers heaps....Remember there would be no carbon tax under a Government I lead...now who said that?

The Fabians allowed 50,000 boat people in which cost the tax payers $11 billion and still costing...That $11 billion could have gone to to an increase in pay for the ADF.

The Fabians caused 1200 people to lose their lives at sea.

The Fabians wasted so much money on hare brain schemes like over priced school hall and roof insulation causing 4 deaths and hundreds of house fires.

Is it any wonder severe cuts have to be made or do you think we should go on borrowing $100,000 each day like the Fabians did?

Is it right that the tax payers should be paying $1 Billion interest every week on the money the Fabians borrowed?

So don't nonsense about lousy pay increases......where do you think the cuts should be...please don't talk about the PPL...I am opposed to it and it may never get off the ground and I hope it doesn't but if it doesn't the they should also cut the lucrative PPL to public servants and politicians......Kate Ellis is expecting and she will benefit from the PS scheme....6 months on full pay.

banco · 4 November 2014

noco said:
But the Fabians cut the ADF budget to a low not seen since 1938....1.8% of GDP

The Fabians left a hell of a debt and deficit to the Coalition and that money has to be paid back.

The Fabians imposed a Carbon dioxide tax that cost the tax payers heaps....Remember there would be no carbon tax under a Government I lead...now who said that?

The Fabians allowed 50,000 boat people in which cost the tax payers $11 billion and still costing...That $11 billion could have gone to to an increase in pay for the ADF.

The Fabians caused 1200 people to lose their lives at sea.

The Fabians wasted so much money on hare brain schemes like over priced school hall and roof insulation causing 4 deaths and hundreds of house fires.

Is it any wonder severe cuts have to be made or do you think we should go on borrowing $100,000 each day like the Fabians did?

Is it right that the tax payers should be paying $1 Billion interest every week on the money the Fabians borrowed?

So don't nonsense about lousy pay increases......where do you think the cuts should be...please don't talk about the PPL...I am opposed to it and it may never get off the ground and I hope it doesn't but if it doesn't the they should also cut the lucrative PPL to public servants and politicians......Kate Ellis is expecting and she will benefit from the PS scheme....6 months on full pay.

Apparently the Government has enough money lying around to buy off the agricultural socialists though:

Nationals MPs want the Agriculture Minister Barnaby Joyce to ask Cabinet to extend the life of cheap loans for farmers in drought stricken areas.

In June the Prime Minister approved concessional loans for Queensland and New South Wales farmers in the grip of drought.

The loans were for five years at an interest rate of four per cent.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-...oval-for-longer-cheaper-drought-loans/5864158

noco · 4 November 2014

banco said:
Apparently the Government has enough money lying around to buy off the agricultural socialists though:

Nationals MPs want the Agriculture Minister Barnaby Joyce to ask Cabinet to extend the life of cheap loans for farmers in drought stricken areas.

In June the Prime Minister approved concessional loans for Queensland and New South Wales farmers in the grip of drought.

The loans were for five years at an interest rate of four per cent.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-...oval-for-longer-cheaper-drought-loans/5864158

The farmers are very lazy these days, they would sooner put there hand out for Government assistance...to the best of my knowledge Government assistance was not available in the 40's and 50's.

70 odd years ago I know for a fact that farmers prepared for the possibly of bad times of drought and the reason why I say that is because they always had water on their properties and they would also plant and harvest silage in good times and bury it under ground with at least 2 feet of soil over the top....That silage would be good for 11 years and was often used to feed stock when drought hit....I know this to be a fact because I saw it with my own eyes when working on sheep stations in the 40's and 50's....I recently new a sheep farmer from from Richmond in the 80's and I mentioned it to him and he told me they don't do it any more because it is too much work and trouble to do it.

There is nothing new in droughts and floods in the West......I was marooned on one station for 2 weeks...we were sitting on an island near Meandowa south of Dalby......there were no helicopter drops.....the farmer was well prepared with a pantry full of groceries....they had home grown vegetables, fresh milk from the cow, fresh eggs and they would kill a sheep every 4 days.....No panic ...no worries.

The farmers are not the same farmers......the farmers today are a bunch of softies....you never heard of suicides.

So_Cynical · 4 November 2014

noco said:
But the Fabians

The Fabians

The Fabians imposed

The Fabians allowed

The Fabians caused

The Fabians wasted

the Fabians did?

the Fabians borrowed?

Thread title is The Abbott Government not blame the Fabians for Nolaition policy.

So_Cynical said:
Public servant pay freeze coupled with the lousy 1.5% for the defence force all done because of a "budget emergency" that no one other than the Noalition believes in...using up political capital.

I'm simply stating that the Noalition isn't making any friends with this sort of behaviour...the General public doesn't actually believe that there is any real reason for these personal cuts thus will vote with their pockets.

sptrawler · 4 November 2014

So_Cynical said:
I'm simply stating that the Noalition isn't making any friends with this sort of behaviour...the General public doesn't actually believe that there is any real reason for these personal cuts thus will vote with their pockets.

They weren't voted in to make friends, they were voted in to make our economy balanced.
So they can keep putting money in the welfare pockets.

If they fail, the situation gets worse, but that seems to be the furthest from peoples mind.lol

drsmith · 4 November 2014

The Fairfax press is in usual form.

SMH headline,

Ebola: Abbott government relents, will send Australian volunteers to treat victims

In the story,

It is understood Australia has reached an agreement with the British government to treat Australian workers.

The treatment of Australian workers by other involved international parties has always been the basis upon which this government would send people.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...unteers-to-treat-victims-20141104-11grgy.html

Julia · 4 November 2014

So_Cynical said:
the General public doesn't actually believe that there is any real reason for these personal cuts thus will vote with their pockets.

Do you have something to substantiate that claim? Your own intention does not necessarily translate to that of the 'general public'.
As sptrawler says, they were largely voted in to correct the economic mess left by Labor, and to stop the boats.
They have pretty much done the latter, although Labor said it was impossible, and would be on the way to fixing the economy if Labor were not so hypocritically obstructive.

sptrawler said:
They weren't voted in to make friends, they were voted in to make our economy balanced.
So they can keep putting money in the welfare pockets.

If they fail, the situation gets worse, but that seems to be the furthest from peoples mind.lol

Of course it is. Too many people want what they want for themselves. Any understanding of the forward demands for everything the electorate believes it's entitled to seems lacking.

It's "don't cut this", "don't cut that". Where the **** do they think the money is going to come from to fund all these feel good social services?

noco · 4 November 2014

So_Cynical said:
Thread title is The Abbott Government not blame the Fabians for Nolaition policy.

I'm simply stating that the Noalition isn't making any friends with this sort of behaviour...the General public doesn't actually believe that there is any real reason for these personal cuts thus will vote with their pockets.

The general public?????????? and who does the general public consist of in your eyes?...ah yes.....the Fabians and the unions.

Yes the Fabians.......one only has to mention the Fabians and it will always ruffle a few feathers.....but you cannot get away from the fact, the Greens and all the left wings socialists in the Labor party are members of the Fabian Society.....Julia Gillard is a member of the Fabians and a confessed communist.....The Fabians are communists so why do they use the Green/Labor coalition as a shadow for their miserable ideology....Why don't they use the name Communist instead of the Labor Party....it is because they are very subtle and sneaky in the way they go about imposing their ideology...they try to do it without people realizing it...they wolves in sheep's clothing.

This may not be akin to the thread but Fabians are the reason why the Abbott Government are making some hard decision to clean up the Fabians mess.

sptrawler · 4 November 2014

drsmith said:
The Fairfax press is in usual form.

SMH headline,

In the story,

The treatment of Australian workers by other involved international parties has always been the basis upon which this government would send people.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...unteers-to-treat-victims-20141104-11grgy.html

I was on holidays while all that ebola rhetoric was going on.
It appeared Abbott was being cautious so as not to endanger Australian health workers, while Labor and Fairfax were saying" sod it send them in".lol

I thought, why not send Plibersek and a group of vocal journos in as volunteers, that would shut them up.

It's easy to sit back and expose other people to a deadly virus, when your not putting yourself forward.

Absolute dick heads, forgive the language, but nothing else covers it.

Labor and Fairfax need to grow up.

When you read the article, Abbot hasn't Relented.

He has ensured there are safeguards for Australian health workers.

What a disgracefull, missleading headline, bloody shamefull SMH.

noco · 5 November 2014

sptrawler said:
I was on holidays while all that ebola rhetoric was going on.
It appeared Abbott was being cautious so as not to endanger Australian health workers, while Labor and Fairfax were saying" sod it send them in".lol

I thought, why not send Plibersek and a group of vocal journos in as volunteers, that would shut them up.

It's easy to sit back and expose other people to a deadly virus, when your not putting yourself forward.

Absolute dick heads, forgive the language, but nothing else covers it.

Labor and Fairfax need to grow up.

When you read the article, Abbot hasn't Relented.

He has ensured there are safeguards for Australian health workers.

What a disgracefull, missleading headline, bloody shamefull SMH.

Isn't great to have an adult Government with real people who think things through first, unlike the Fabians who rush in like a bull at a gate and let someone else worry about it when the damage is done.

So_Cynical · 5 November 2014

Julia said:
Do you have something to substantiate that claim? Your own intention does not necessarily translate to that of the 'general public'.

Cynical said:
the General public doesn't actually believe that there is any real reason for these personal cuts thus will vote with their pockets.

Are you suggesting that people (voters) in general are happy to have their pay frozen or reduced to 1.5% PA pay rises when inflation is running at close to 3%? or budget crisis denial?

Julia said:
As sptrawler says, they were largely voted in to correct the economic mess left by Labor, and to stop the boats.
They have pretty much done the latter, although Labor said it was impossible, and would be on the way to fixing the economy if Labor were not so hypocritically obstructive.

The election was a 2 horse race and the other horse had a heart attack, to somehow spin this as an endorsement of all Noalition policy is a bit of a stretch, Uni fees, an ETS inquiry, reinstatement of knighthoods, wealth tax and medical fund give-away, NBN hatchet job, RET back flip, Cambodia boat people deal, education funding back flip.

Who voted for all that?

Labor never said it was impossible to stop the boats, can you find a link to that? substantiate that claim?

-----------------------

Now can we get this thread back of track..its suppose to be about The Abbott Government and their failings and lies and spin and back flips and denial.

The Abbott Government

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drsmith

sptrawler

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Smurf1976

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drsmith

Julia

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