The Abbott Government

noco · 30 October 2014

SirRumpole said:
More jobs ?

Certainly not in the renewable energy sector. The coal industry won't be taking up all those unemployed solar cell installers or compensating the solar and wind companies now going broke.

NO COALition.

It is high time the renewable energy stood on its own two feet instead of being subsidized by the Australian Tax payer....It is a useless source of energy when the wind doesn't blow and the Sun doesn't shine......they are both only 15% efficient as against coal fired which is 35%.

Coal fired base load power stations or nuclear will always be required until such times as they can find a way to store power.

It has been recently been proved that wind farms are destroying bird life, eagles in particular., but you never hear anything from the Greens......If there was a dam to be built, the greens would find some way to stop it....maybe it is a habitat for eagles......now that would be different.

sydboy007 · 30 October 2014

noco said:
The highest carbon dioxide tax in the world = higher manufacturing costs = companies going off shore = higher unemployment.

I thought the Green/Labor party were friends of the hard working families......how can they be when they destroy jobs.

Cut costs, reduce power prices, cut red tape and green tape, reduce union control = more jobs....very clever thinking.

* Trade exposed industries generally were over compensated so face little to no impact from pricing carbon
* Wind farms and solar installers employ a lot more people than the declining coal sector

I'd argue over valued land prices in Australia is harming our competitiveness far far more than the carbon tax ever did. Just do a comparison of what $350K Euro buys in Berlin and compare that to what $500K buys in SYD or MEL. You'll be shocked. $160K euro can land you a brand new 1 BR apartment in mitte (central) berlin. The $230K equivalent in Australia would barely buy you something 1 hour out of the city. After spending a week in berlin earlier this month I was shocked at how cheap it is.

Also the reinitroduction of fuel excise indexation will have a larger impact on most households than the removal of the carbon tax.

sydboy007 · 30 October 2014

noco said:
It is high time the renewable energy stood on its own two feet instead of being subsidized by the Australian Tax payer....It is a useless source of energy when the wind doesn't blow and the Sun doesn't shine......they are both only 15% efficient as against coal fired which is 35%.

Coal fired base load power stations or nuclear will always be required until such times as they can find a way to store power.

It has been recently been proved that wind farms are destroying bird life, eagles in particular., but you never hear anything from the Greens......If there was a dam to be built, the greens would find some way to stop it....maybe it is a habitat for eagles......now that would be different.

Germany and Norway have both shown high levels of renewable energy are quite compatible with competitive economies. Norway is technically at 98% though exports a great deal of it.

Do you have any proof to backup your claims that windfarms are more harmful to birdlife than coal power stations and mines.

What I can find for Australia is - https://newmatilda.com/2013/10/29/do-wind-farms-really-kill-birds

Emma Bennett, one of the authors of this article, has conducted over 5500 surveys at six wind farms in Victoria. Her data is consistent with less than one bird being killed per turbine per year. The bulk of published studies from overseas are also consistent with these figures. She also found no rare or threatened species killed by wind farms.

Further, small wind farms, like the community wind farm in Leonards Hill, can report zero bird collisions, a finding which is consistent with similar sized wind farms overseas. The science strongly suggests that birds avoid flying through smaller wind farms and simply go around them.

As of the end of 2012, there were 454 turbines in operation in Victoria and 1559 across Australia. In other words, the probable number of birds killed by wind turbine collisions in Victoria for the whole of 2013 would be much lower than the number killed at Box Flat in a single morning of male bonding.

The 2013 Victorian duck hunting season began in March with an illegal all-species shoot-up at the Box Flat wetland near the small town of Boort. An informant told the Coalition Against Duck Shooting that around 2000 birds were killed, including around 80 Freckled Ducks (an endangered species), and many other species that could not conceivably have been mistaken for ducks.

Wind energy has a much smaller impact on bird species than other forms of electricity generation. Benjamin Sovacool, a Danish energy policy researcher, reviewed available risk estimates and found that wind power and nuclear power produce 0.3-0.4 bird fatalities per gigawatt-hour of electricity produced, whereas fossil-fuel power produces 5.2 bird fatalities per gigawatt-hour of electricity produced.

Click to expand...

noco · 30 October 2014

sydboy007 said:
Germany and Norway have both shown high levels of renewable energy are quite compatible with competitive economies. Norway is technically at 98% though exports a great deal of it.

Do you have any proof to backup your claims that windfarms are more harmful to birdlife than coal power stations and mines.

What I can find for Australia is - https://newmatilda.com/2013/10/29/do-wind-farms-really-kill-birds

How is this for starters?....This is just one wind farm.......Will get some more proof when I find the time.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...on-birds-of-prey/story-e6frg6nf-1227065860153

EAGLES, falcons and other raptors make up to a third of the estimated 1500 birds killed each year at Australia’s biggest wind farm.

The finding of an independent report for Macarthur Wind Farm operator AGL follows 12 monthly searches of 48 turbines at the 140-turbine operation in Victoria.

After adjusting for birds eaten by scavengers between searches and the total 140 turbines, Australian Ecological Research Services estimated each turbine killed about 10 birds a year.

The analysis said this would include 500 raptors a year.

Logique · 30 October 2014

noco said:
Logique, Abbott can only hold that fuel excise for 12 months when it then must go to the Senate and that will probably be the time it is thrown out.

Thanks Noco.

I've been critical of the cigar smoking M.Cormann, but this is a clever political wedge against the Greens. In the Senate today, Christine Milne is hopping mad about it. In response, Cormann is taunting her, saying she wants to return money to Big Oil.

And that 'girlie-man' thing about Bill Shorten, whether pc or not, people will remember that for a long time.

noco · 30 October 2014

sydboy007 said:
Germany and Norway have both shown high levels of renewable energy are quite compatible with competitive economies. Norway is technically at 98% though exports a great deal of it.

Do you have any proof to backup your claims that windfarms are more harmful to birdlife than coal power stations and mines.

What I can find for Australia is - https://newmatilda.com/2013/10/29/do-wind-farms-really-kill-birds

Wind farms kill 39,000,000 birds each year.......In California, they close the wind farms down in winter to save the birds.....in some areas they are removing some wind farms.

We have 26 wind farms in Australia with another 100 under consideration.

WHY AREN'T THE GREENIES DEMONSTRATING IN THE STREETS AND SHOUTING FROM THE ROOF TOPS....SAVE THE BIRDS.

I will tell you why and it is because it would make a mockery of their renewable energy policy.

http://www.cfact.org/2013/03/18/wind-turbines-kill-up-to-39-million-birds-a-year/

Craton · 30 October 2014

Very interesting about bird kills by wind turbines there noco. I never would have thought this to be an issue, just goes to show eh.

With AGL delaying the Silverton, NSW wind farm project because of the RET uncertainty, this may be another nail in the coffin to the southern hemispheres biggest wind farm projects. Apart from being an eye sore, in light of noco's heads up, threats to the delicate and unique fauna in the area must be thoroughly looked at.
http://www.agl.com.au/about-agl/how-we-source-energy/renewable-energy/silverton-wind-farm

I should mention that AGL are also currently building a solar plant just west of Broken Hill too: http://www.agl.com.au/about-agl/how-we-source-energy/renewable-energy/broken-hill-solar-plant

So_Cynical · 30 October 2014

noco said:
Wind farms kill 39,000,000 birds each year.......In California

WHY AREN'T THE GREENIES DEMONSTRATING IN THE STREETS AND SHOUTING FROM THE ROOF TOPS....SAVE THE BIRDS.

I will tell you why and it is because it would make a mockery of their renewable energy policy.

In a thread entitled "The Abbott Government" why bring up green double standards when we should be focusing on Noalition double standards...say like the great RET - Climate Change Authority - ETS back flip with pike.

A simply stunning reversal of stated policy, an almost 100% turn around from the promises at election time, the 2 years leading into the election and the last 12 months since the election...a near complete turn around.

noco · 30 October 2014

So_Cynical said:
In a thread entitled "The Abbott Government" why bring up green double standards when we should be focusing on Noalition double standards...say like the great RET - Climate Change Authority - ETS back flip with pike.

A simply stunning reversal of stated policy, an almost 100% turn around from the promises at election time, the 2 years leading into the election and the last 12 months since the election...a near complete turn around.

Yes you are right...some of my posts were a little off thread but it was in reply to statements made by Sir Rumpole and Sydboy007.

It often happens as one thing leads to another and it is very easy to get off track.

Speaking of turn a rounds and once again a little of track.......We will never forget Gillards turn a round ...."THERE WILL BE NO CARBON TAX UNDER A GOVERNMENT I LEAD"....LEST WE FORGET.

sptrawler · 30 October 2014

So_Cynical said:
In a thread entitled "The Abbott Government" why bring up green double standards when we should be focusing on Noalition double standards...say like the great RET - Climate Change Authority - ETS back flip with pike.

A simply stunning reversal of stated policy, an almost 100% turn around from the promises at election time, the 2 years leading into the election and the last 12 months since the election...a near complete turn around.

It will be great when we can all start and worry about the growing debt and how to pay it off.

Smurf1976 · 30 October 2014

sydboy007 said:
Germany and Norway have both shown high levels of renewable energy are quite compatible with competitive economies. Norway is technically at 98%

Yep, Norway is almost entirely (well, 96%) reliant on clean, green hydro-electricity.

Better not tell the Greens about that one.....

sptrawler · 30 October 2014

Smurf1976 said:
Yep, Norway is almost entirely (well, 96%) reliant on clean, green hydro-electricity.

Better not tell the Greens about that one.....

Would hate to compare West Australias topography, with Norway or Germany.
I will give Syd a medal if he can get W.A a viable hydro system.lol
Or an extension cord from the Eastern State grid.

So_Cynical · 30 October 2014

sptrawler said:
Would hate to compare West Australias topography, with Norway or Germany.
I will give Syd a medal if he can get W.A a viable hydro system.lol
Or an extension cord from the Eastern State grid.

WA has some of the largest tidal movements any where in the world, absolutely MASSIVE potential for green tidal energy in WA, of course this would cost billions to develop and affect 100's of Kilometres of coast line so would never pass any environmental assessments.

So could WA produce ALL of its power needs by 100% GHG free generation? the answer is absolutely yes.

sptrawler · 30 October 2014

So_Cynical said:
WA has some of the largest tidal movements any where in the world, absolutely MASSIVE potential for green tidal energy in WA, of course this would cost billions to develop and affect 100's of Kilometres of coast line so would never pass any environmental assessments.

So could WA produce ALL of its power needs by 100% GHG free generation? the answer is absolutely yes.

So it would cost billions to develop? To supply a population of 2million, the answer is absolutely yes, get a grip.

What a hoot. That is a greens answer.

Have you looked at a map of Australia? The big bit on the left is W.A.

sydboy007 · 31 October 2014

sptrawler said:
So it would cost billions to develop? To supply a population of 2million, the answer is absolutely yes, get a grip.

What a hoot. That is a greens answer.

Have you looked at a map of Australia? The big bit on the left is W.A.

$45B+ was spent in 5 years gold plating the east coast networks with the blessings of the major political parties

That kind of money well spent on renewable energy would achieve quite a lot for the country.

So glad you feel Abbott is spending our money so well on PPL and DA, amongst other wasteful programs.

Now we've got the internet tax designed to achieve what exactly? $40 a year and anyone can avoid it. Not just anyone, but a whole family or say a terrorist cell.

Julia · 31 October 2014

sydboy007 said:
$45B+ was spent in 5 years gold plating the east coast networks with the blessings of the major political parties

I'm a bit sick of hearing that this was 'gold plating'. It wasn't at all. Before the infrastructure was upgraded we had frequent blackouts. The slightest storm would precipitate many hours of no power. It happened many times throughout the summer.

Since the upgrades there have not been any black outs at all.
I, for one, and I know many others, are quite happy to pay for this continuity of supply.

sptrawler · 31 October 2014

sydboy007 said:
$45B+ was spent in 5 years gold plating the east coast networks with the blessings of the major political parties

That kind of money well spent on renewable energy would achieve quite a lot for the country.

So glad you feel Abbott is spending our money so well on PPL and DA, amongst other wasteful programs.

Now we've got the internet tax designed to achieve what exactly? $40 a year and anyone can avoid it. Not just anyone, but a whole family or say a terrorist cell.

I certainly haven't been impressed with this period of Government, however no one is coming up "smelling of roses", Abbott, Shorten, Milne or Palmer.
It is an apalling period in our political history.
The problems keep compounding, and our representitives keep playing childish games.

sydboy007 · 31 October 2014

Julia said:
I'm a bit sick of hearing that this was 'gold plating'. It wasn't at all. Before the infrastructure was upgraded we had frequent blackouts. The slightest storm would precipitate many hours of no power. It happened many times throughout the summer.

Since the upgrades there have not been any black outs at all.
I, for one, and I know many others, are quite happy to pay for this continuity of supply.

I've lived the same house for 17 years. I've not had an unscheduled blackout in the day. I have had <5 blackouts in the night where I've woken up to a flashing bed side clock.

Possibly some of the network upgrades were actually required, but there's plenty of evidence now coming out that a lot was just to eek out the legislated ROI on capital, especially when you have GBEs borrowing at low interest rates and receiving private sector ROI.

From the Garnaut report

Electricity use in Australia is falling. From the 1960s to the end of the 20th century, electricity consumption increased at an average annual rate of six per cent. Investment in power stations and electricity networks also rose steadily. Since 2009, however, eastern states’ electricity production has fallen and in Western Australia growth has plateaued since 2011.

Yet this extraordinary fall in demand has not led to a fall in price, as would occur in a conventional market. Since 2006 the average household has reduced power use by more than seven per cent.

But in that period the average household power bill has risen more than 85 per cent: from $890 to $1660 a year. One reason is that Australians are funding billions of dollars of infrastructure that falling consumption has made redundant. These price rises are unsustainable, but who will pay for the correction: power companies, governments or – once again – consumers?

Further from the garnaut report and related to the real capex graph

The comparison of costs between Victoria, where the network providers are in private hands, and New South Wales and Queensland, where the network providers are in state hands, is at the very least a compelling piece of evidence to support this contention. While there are likely to be genuine differences between the states that explain some of these divergences, it is unlikely that these differences explain the majority of these divergences.

We've crippled the economy with extremely expensive electricity, and extremely expensive land.

sydboy007 · 31 October 2014

sptrawler said:
I certainly haven't been impressed with this period of Government, however no one is coming up "smelling of roses", Abbott, Shorten, Milne or Palmer.
It is an apalling period in our political history.
The problems keep compounding, and our representitives keep playing childish games.

yet you complain about the opposition more than the Govt. Why is that?

sptrawler · 1 November 2014

sydboy007 said:
yet you complain about the opposition more than the Govt. Why is that?

Labor, when in Government, enacted a fiscal and social agenda that they felt was best for the country.
History tells us that fiscally we were falling further in debt and their social programes were going to put further pressure on the budget.
They were subsequently voted out and the LNP voted into office.

Now when the elected government wishes to enact a fiscal and social agenda, Labor are being bloody minded and trying to ensure the fiscal situation isn't improved.

It does nothing other than support my belief that generally they are only in politcs for their own ends.

Whether you agree or dissagree with the LNP policies, they are at least prepared to make unpopular decissions that they feel will improve our economy.
The decissions they make may well cost them the next electon, however they are prepared to make that call, unlike what Labor did.

Therefore getting back to me, why am I complaining more about the opposition?

Labors blocking of any form of fiscal reform IMO, will end up in a drop in the standard of living for everyone in Australia.
We can only have a strong welfare and social system, when we have a strong economy.
What they are doing is continuing with their economic vandalism.

So untill they start and act in a mature manner, that reflects a genuine concern for Australia's wellbeing, they won't be getting my support.

The Abbott Government

noco

sydboy007

sydboy007

noco

Logique

Investor

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Craton

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So_Cynical

The Contrarian Averager

noco

sptrawler

Smurf1976

sptrawler

So_Cynical

The Contrarian Averager

sptrawler

sydboy007

Julia

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