The Abbott Government

noco · 14 August 2014

sydboy007 said:
Wow. So that's why they can never turn up on time.

We just need MORE roads and problem solved...

Or maybe better public transport so there's the option to not have to drive everywhere

I am afraid Syd, you have very little knowledge of how, where and when tradies work.....in tough times, one has to go where ever the work is available.

Having been a tradie in the 40's and 50's, I believe I can speak with some authority on the matter....so your theory of staying in the same area where you live to find work, YOU, my friend would starve to death waiting for work in the area where you live....obviously you would be more than happy to twiddle your fingers all day waiting for that phone call for work in the area where you live........so every phone call you receive for work outside your living area, you will tell the customer, sorry you live to far from me, try someone else...

SirRumpole · 14 August 2014

noco said:
.so every phone call you receive for work outside your living area, you will tell the customer, sorry you live to far from me, try someone else...

I'm afraid I have been told just that when trying to get a plumber

wayneL · 14 August 2014

SirRumpole said:
I suggest that creating multi billion dollar roads for tradies is a waste of resources.

Better to encourage more tradies in local communities, which will create jobs.

Railways are better for carrying freight.

As we have found in NSW, allowing private enterprise to run tollways results in closure of other roads in the area that compete with the tollways.

Better to decentralise business and industries so people don't have to travel so far to get to work plus getting on with an effective NBN so more people can work from home.

Thats entirely too idealistic. While it could work in some industries, it is a pipe dream for others. I specialize in performance and rehabilitative farriery. This takes me all over Brisbane and the coasts and in no way could I stay in my local area. Many enterprises are similarly broad in territory.

noco · 14 August 2014

SirRumpole said:
I'm afraid I have been told just that when trying to get a plumber

Well, perhaps that plumber has been very lucky to date but when work becomes scarce, and it does at times, then he will have little choice but to pursue work outside his area and if he doesn't then he will starve.

I worked for a large company in Brisbane but spent 2 to 3 years of my time on sheep stations in south western Queensland...wool sold at one Australian pound for one pound weight of wool and the sheep cockies had heaps of money....we worked 9 hours per day 7 days a week on hourly rates...no prices were ever asked...just do the job and send the bill.....dem days are long gone.

SirRumpole · 14 August 2014

noco said:
I worked for a large company in Brisbane but spent 2 to 3 years of my time on sheep stations in south western Queensland...wool sold at one Australian pound for one pound weight of wool and the sheep cockies had heaps of money....we worked 9 hours per day 7 days a week on hourly rates...no prices were ever asked...just do the job and send the bill.....dem days are long gone.

Luxury

Point is that there is a shortage of tradies these days because most kids want to go into IT or go to uni because they think it will get them a well paid job, even though there are thousands of people with uni degrees who can't find work.

Governments have run down the tech colleges (don't start about which governments did it, they all did), and now we have to bring in 457's to do the jobs our spoiled kids don't want to do.

noco · 14 August 2014

SirRumpole said:
Luxury

Point is that there is a shortage of tradies these days because most kids want to go into IT or go to uni because they think it will get them a well paid job, even though there are thousands of people with uni degrees who can't find work.

Governments have run down the tech colleges (don't start about which governments did it, they all did), and now we have to bring in 457's to do the jobs our spoiled kids don't want to do.

That problem has existed for some years now and is the fact that has made it too expensive to employ apprentices........In my day, an apprentice received about 12.5% of of a tradesman's wage and for the first couple of years you were always with a licensed tradesman...this rose to about 60 % in later years.....we did 5 years at college....2 hours two nights per week in our own time and 4 hours per fortnight on practical work in the bosses time.

I do not know who was responsible for lifting the higher pay rates for apprentices, but they sure ruined the system for future tradesmen.....then some government had the bright idea of 6 weeks bulk training in the bosses time, hence adding additional cost on to a project...somebody had to pay.

So is it any wonder we are not seeing new tradesmen coming on stream.

How the system works today, I have no idea.

sydboy007 · 14 August 2014

Joe, JJOOEE. I think you need to start finessing your economic narrative. You really do have an image problem. I hear your pain, what with that deep down feeling you have growing inside that no really likes you, even in your own party. That's gotta hurt.

So here's some free advice to hopefully help you on to a better path.

I'll just focus on fuel indexation since it's one of the few budget measures that make economic sense in the long term.

So what I think you need to do is highlight that Australian taxation on fuel is the 4th lowest in the OECD. Bringing back indexation to fuel excise will still mean we''' likely maintain being one of the lowest fuel taxing countries.

You can then highlight how the amount of fuel excise revenue has been falling as the number of kilometres travelled has continually increased since Howard's fated freezing of the excise.

As the second graph shows, road users are increasingly leaners as they're not paying their fair share of road costs. You can also weave this into your age of entitlement is over rhetoric. Bolt and The Australian will lap this up in droves, and it's also reasonably good policy.

Now you might have to do something about the fact that even though poor people don't drive that much, they do spend a much larger share of their income on travel. I'll leave it up to you if you want to tackle that very real issue or not.

So can I suggest you focus more on the economics and less on making so many issues about class.

overhang · 14 August 2014

noco said:
That problem has existed for some years now and is the fact that has made it too expensive to employ apprentices........In my day, an apprentice received about 12.5% of of a tradesman's wage and for the first couple of years you were always with a licensed tradesman...this rose to about 60 % in later years.....we did 5 years at college....2 hours two nights per week in our own time and 4 hours per fortnight on practical work in the bosses time.

I do not know who was responsible for lifting the higher pay rates for apprentices, but they sure ruined the system for future tradesmen.....then some government had the bright idea of 6 weeks bulk training in the bosses time, hence adding additional cost on to a project...somebody had to pay.

So is it any wonder we are not seeing new tradesmen coming on stream.

How the system works today, I have no idea.

Not sure where you get the idea its too expensive to employ apprentices, award rates for a first year chippy are $305.35 a week or a little over $8 an hour. Considering these apprentices are often charged out at $50-$70 an hour I hardly think the wages are too exorbitant. That really is inline with that 12.5% you mentioned too.

sydboy007 · 14 August 2014

noco said:
I am afraid Syd, you have very little knowledge of how, where and when tradies work.....in tough times, one has to go where ever the work is available.

Having been a tradie in the 40's and 50's, I believe I can speak with some authority on the matter....so your theory of staying in the same area where you live to find work, YOU, my friend would starve to death waiting for work in the area where you live....obviously you would be more than happy to twiddle your fingers all day waiting for that phone call for work in the area where you live........so every phone call you receive for work outside your living area, you will tell the customer, sorry you live to far from me, try someone else...

Lets see if anyone responds to say they've had a tradie recently arrive on time. The last 4 times I've had someone out 3 of them were more than an hour late while the 4th was half an hour early, which was nearly as annoying as I was sleeping between night shifts.

So I can understand if a tradie has to move around a lot for the work, but if you're going to be late then have the decency to ring up and say sorry I'll be there in roughly XX time and is that still convenient to you. In the age of the mobile phone there's no excuse not to do this. The fact is I've used a different tradie each time I needed work done at home due to the poor service. IF I ever find one that can arrive reasonably on time they'll get repeat business out of me.

Better public transport, and I'd say putting a better bike path system within the cities to make short trips by bike easier and safer, would help to limit the massive level of congestion most main roads now have. I'd prefer a Government that invested in infrastructure based on the biggest economic dividend provided than based on vote garnering.

sydboy007 · 14 August 2014

overhang said:
Not sure where you get the idea its too expensive to employ apprentices, award rates for a first year chippy are $305.35 a week or a little over $8 an hour. Considering these apprentices are often charged out at $50-$70 an hour I hardly think the wages are too exorbitant. That really is inline with that 12.5% you mentioned too.

Sheesh. Even living at home that would barely let you own a vehicle and drive around for work. $506 a year for TAFE fees comes out of that. I'd prefer some of the PPL money moved to the TAFE sector. Give locals the chance to skill up outside the uni sector. Works very well for the Germans and Scandinavians.

overhang · 14 August 2014

drsmith said:
He's just stating the facts.

It appears it's selective facts when the relevant stat would be how it affects different demographics as a proportion of their income.

The analysis by the Australia Institute, a progressive think-tank, replicated Hockey’s figures that the lowest-earning 20% of households paid an average of $16.36 per week on petrol in 2009-10, rising to $53.87 for the highest-earning 20% of households.

But when expressed as a percentage of mean income for those same groups, the petrol spending represented 4.54% of income for the lowest-earning households but only 1.37% for the highest-earning ones.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/14/poor-spend-petrol-anger-hockey

Julia · 14 August 2014

From "The World Today", ABC Radio:

PAT MCGRATH: Over the past few years, Bank of America Merrill Lynch chief economist for Australia Saul Eslake has been one of the most vocal advocates for the reintroduction of the indexation of the fuel excise.

SAUL ESLAKE: I thought its abolition in 2001 was a candidate for the title of "worst tax policy decision of the last 20 years," although there's a fair amount of competition for that title in my view.

The point is that it's important to look at the overall package of measures, including for their equity or progressivity, rather than individual ones.

And the problem I think the Government has is not so much that this specific measure is regressive or unfair, although it is undoubtedly regressive, but that the Government hasn't been able to persuade the population as a whole, or crossbenchers in the Senate, that its package of measures as a whole is by Australian voters standards fair.

Until Mr Hockey recognises this, he'll continue to further alienate voters.

Knobby22 · 14 August 2014

Julia said:
From "The World Today", ABC Radio:

Until Mr Hockey recognises this, he'll continue to further alienate voters.

+1, and the longer he takes the harder it will be.

clever guy is Saul

banco · 14 August 2014

Let's face it unless he's fielding softball questions from Kochie Joe Hockey just isn't that good at being a politician. I used to think he was good at the politics but not so good at policy. It looks like he's not good at either.

noco · 14 August 2014

banco said:
Let's face it unless he's fielding softball questions from Kochie Joe Hockey just isn't that good at being a politician. I used to think he was good at the politics but not so good at policy. It looks like he's not good at either.

Can you name one amongst the Green/Labor coalition who could match him....there is not too much talent left in the Labor Party.

SirRumpole · 14 August 2014

noco said:
Can you name one amongst the Green/Labor coalition who could match him....there is not too much talent left in the Labor Party.

Match him for what ? Unfair budgets ? Paranoia ? Stumbling defense of the indefensible ?

I'm pretty sure Chris Bowen could put down a better budget than Hockey and I hope he soon gets the chance to prove it.

wayneL · 14 August 2014

SirRumpole said:
Match him for what ? Unfair budgets ? Paranoia ? Stumbling defense of the indefensible ?

I'm pretty sure Chris Bowen could put down a better budget than Hockey and I hope he soon gets the chance to prove it.

Heaven forfend!

Though it seems this will be reality soon enough... I am learning Greek in preparation.

noco · 14 August 2014

SirRumpole said:
Match him for what ? Unfair budgets ? Paranoia ? Stumbling defense of the indefensible ?

I'm pretty sure Chris Bowen could put down a better budget than Hockey and I hope he soon gets the chance to prove it.

Chris Bowen is a Fabian (communist) through and through...he would be worse than the worlds greatest treasurer, the one and only Swannie......borrow more, tax us more and get us into more debt....that is in the Fabian DNR.

I have posted the Fabian modus operandi twice now....would you like me to post it again?

IFocus · 14 August 2014

Its all very unfair for Joe now everyone is lining up to stick the boot just like...........well he did in opposition.

'We can't all hop on cows': Ricky Muir takes aim at Joe Hockey over 'poor people don't drive' comments

Key Senate crossbencher Ricky Muir has criticised the Treasurer's statements about poor people's use of cars, saying not everyone in regional areas can "hop on cows and ride into town".

Coalition backbenchers and the Opposition have also taken Joe Hockey to task after he claimed poorer Australians would not be hit by increases to the fuel tax because "the poorest people either don't have cars or actually don't drive very far in many cases".

Victorian Motoring Enthusiasts Party senator Ricky Muir, who opposes the increase to the fuel excise, says people in regional areas generally earn less, but have further to travel and limited access to public transport.

"I don't think [the Treasurer has] ever lived in a rural, regional, or remote area where he may have been a school leaver, a job seeker, unemployed, low to mid-income where there's no public transport," he said.

"We can't all hop on cows and ride into town I don't think."

noco · 14 August 2014

IFocus said:
Its all very unfair for Joe now everyone is lining up to stick the boot just like...........well he did in opposition.

'We can't all hop on cows': Ricky Muir takes aim at Joe Hockey over 'poor people don't drive' comments

Don't you worry about that IF....Hockey has broad shoulders ......You will find it hard to ruffle Joe"s feathers....he has been around too long...sticking the boot in would be like a pin prick to Joe.

The Abbott Government

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