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The Abbott Government

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Craton said:
You see, this is what I don't get. Evidence based on a 134 year record when the age of our planet is oh, a little bit longer than that, simply doesn't wash with me.

To my mind, if we had accurate records that were more relevant in time scale to our history, say dating back 10~15,000 yrs, even then that's still just a blip in the scale of all things cosmic, then perhaps I would then say that there is some weight in this so called Climate Change.
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The ice record goes back 800000 years so its not like the Evidence record is only 134 years. :rolleyes: fact is we know that there are many many influences on our climate and most of those are not under the influence of humans, and so logically we can and will do nothing about these.

However there is a few things that we can do something about and so logically this is where we need to focus our attention, nature has spent many millions years locking up carbon (removing it from our atmosphere) leaving us with the atmosphere and climate that we currently enjoy...and because we are not total idiots we need to do what we can to ensure that we don't make a balls up of that.

The coal we burn today is over a million years old and yet is burnt in seconds, by the thousands of tons...every day.
 
Most people don't know what the Carbon Tax is and couldn't give a hoot whether it goes or stays, and we know that promises of cheaper electricity are a myth. It's important to Abbott because his survival depends on him keeping two key promises. The other is "Stopping the Boats". His opponents know that if they can wreck either of these then they have him by the short and curlies. And if they can root the economy at the same time, that's a bonus, for Clive, Christine and Bill.
 
Calliope said:
Most people don't know what the Carbon Tax is and couldn't give a hoot whether it goes or stays, and we know that promises of cheaper electricity are a myth. It's important to Abbott because his survival depends on him keeping two key promises. The other is "Stopping the Boats". His opponents know that if they can wreck either of these then they have him by the short and curlies. And if they can root the economy at the same time, that's a bonus, for Clive, Christine and Bill.
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His problem is nobody gives a hoot whether it goes or stays because its impact on the lives of ordinary Austrlalians has been so minor (despite the fact that he said it would be the end of the world).
 
noco said:
And your point is emphasis on warming of which has been proven there has been no Global warming for 17 + years.

The other point is you talk about more taxes........more costs to the household....I am show that won't win any 'BROWNIES' for the Fabians.
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HHmmm. So 9 of the 10 hottest global years has occurred since 2000, yet no global warming has occurred.

Can you please explain how that works.

Abbott says he wants to be the infrastructure PM, yet he is going to kill off the CEF which has:

* Already invested in 39 projects
* Made a 7.9% p.a return on it's investments.
* seen a 3:1 private sector matching investment funds

So why would you want to get rid of a Government investment vehicle that makes a profit and likely could see $10B of Govt funding turned into $40B of investments at a time when we desperately need this kind of investment to cover some of the job loses from the mining CAPEX cliff? It's the perfect marrying of public and private sectors benefiting the community. You'd think the L+NP could support something like that.
 
banco said:
His problem is nobody gives a hoot whether it goes or stays because its impact on the lives of ordinary Austrlalians has been so minor (despite the fact that he said it would be the end of the world).
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Very true. When all those Abbott believers open their electricity and gas bills after Christmas they're going to wonder where that $540 worth of savings has gotten to? Considering only half of that was directly attributable to the electricity sector seems to not be terribly important to Abbott.

Bill Maher made a telling comment about the Republicans in the USA, and I think it's equally applicable to Abbott. Abbott has been telling too many Zombie lies. The lies that just wont die. Rational people keep on disproving them, yet they keep on being resurrected by Abbott in slightly different guises. Abbott, the PM who can't read an electricity bill, now that's the truth that needs to be recognised.
 
@sydboy007
@So_Cynical

Thanks for the feedback.

<tongue in cheek>
Thermal dynamics? Sure, lots of it occurs with differing opinions.
Ice cores date back squillions of years sure, so too stock market data albeit not so far.
</tongue in cheek>

Seriously though, the science is huge and as I don’t come from an Academia background, I’m just your average Joe trying to make sense of all this. That also doesn’t mean I have to swallow everything that is fed to me by the “experts”.

Plants need CO2 so more CO2 means more plants ergo, must be a good thing for us too, no?

Are we not just starting to learn how our oceans lock in CO2?

I don’t profess to know it all nor do I have any answers. The big stumbling block in selling this so called Climate Change (make no mistake, I’d really like to see another term used), selling it to us mere mortals is that fact that we are so short lived and have bugger all chance of seeing any results we might implement.

Also, the issue isn’t just Carbon is it? Transitioning to renewables will not fix our ailing planet will it?

I still say data from the last 134 years doesn’t wash with me, the hottest years of late could well be a statistical blimp (lies, more lies and damn statistics) further, if it could be shown without a shadow of a doubt that we are indeed changing the climate or warming the planet then I be the first to demand action.
Thing is, I’m not convinced and I reckon our PM thinks the same. That doesn’t mean I support him or his party either.
 
sydboy007 said:
Very true. When all those Abbott believers open their electricity and gas bills after Christmas they're going to wonder where that $540 worth of savings has gotten to? Considering only half of that was directly attributable to the electricity sector seems to not be terribly important to Abbott.
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This is what Labor's been reduced to with its carbon tax.

Economically illiterate debate over the level of savings from its repeal.
 
drsmith said:
This is what Labor's been reduced to with its carbon tax.

Economically illiterate debate over the level of savings from its repeal.
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Ah, the debate is about what Abbott has told the punters.

The fact the tax has had little economic impact seems to be ignored from the debate.

i wonder if the $45B in spending by the various poles and wires companies hadn't occurred if Abbott woul dhave been able to get his lies believed by so many? Afterall, he is the PM who couldn't read an electricity bill, so that might explain his confusion??
 

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drsmith said:
Well, the goat's throat is about to be cut and that will reduce the cost of energy for all.

What's done with the rest of the beast is another argument altogether.

Clive Palmer admits he was a bit flustered last week.

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2014/s4045737.htm

In more ways than one I would suggest.
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Sacrificial goat, so to speak. With the latest increases in electricity I doubt anyone is going to be rushing to prop up consumer spending with their $40 average quarterly bill reduction. I estimate my bill might reduce by $8-10. Couple of return trips to work each qtr. Just WOW.

Just means in 2024 we'll be so far behind the USA and China that we'll be what comes after a banana republic.

When do you think BHP is going to start the Olympic Dam expansion just as Tony promised??? How many new resource projects will go ahead now the resource and carbon taxes have been removed?
 
The trouble with Labor is it sacrifices more than the goat.

It sacrificed economic growth with the carbon tax for gaining office.

It sacrificed our border security in the name of blind ideology and maintaining office. Boat arrival reached 1000 per week at one point under the Gillard government but their Green partners didn't mind. Deaths at sea were mere tragedies, mere accidents according to the child senator.

Lastly, they sacrificed their own government and with the abandonment of their own budget savings, they will now do anything to sacrifice the nation's fiscal future under this government.

The abolition of the carbon tax will reduce energy costs to business and competition will ensure prices to the consumer will be lower than they otherwise would have been with the carbon tax.
 
drsmith said:
The abolition of the carbon tax will reduce energy costs to business and competition will ensure prices to the consumer will be lower than they otherwise would have been with the carbon tax.
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The notion that the carbon tax takes money out of he economy is nonsense. It takes money from a dirty economy and puts it into a clean economy. The reduction in consumer electricity demand due to solar pv installations means that more power could be sold cheaply to business, thus reducing their costs.

Renewable energy suppliers are businesses as well. There is no imperative that coal companies are the only businesses that should be able to make a profit.
 
sydboy007 said:
Abbott says he wants to be the infrastructure PM, yet he is going to kill off the CEF which has:

* Already invested in 39 projects
* Made a 7.9% p.a return on it's investments.
* seen a 3:1 private sector matching investment funds

So why would you want to get rid of a Government investment vehicle that makes a profit and likely could see $10B of Govt funding turned into $40B of investments at a time when we desperately need this kind of investment to cover some of the job loses from the mining CAPEX cliff?
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No one is talking about the CEF, certainly not the Noalition...i got a letter from the power company last week with the headline "good news, your power bill is going down" didn't mention the 'bad news" that as a result of my power bill going down the Clean Energy fund would be wound up and billions of dollars in green energy DEVELOPMENT and CAPACITY would now be invested/created elsewhere.

Its a scandal.
 
SirRumpole said:
The notion that the carbon tax takes money out of he economy is nonsense.

It takes money from a dirty economy and puts it into a clean economy. The reduction in consumer electricity demand due to solar pv installations means that more power could be sold cheaply to business, thus reducing their costs.
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I didn't say that it does but it does redistribute it by increasing the cost of cheaper forms of energy. The net cost of energy therefore rises and that's reflected in the price increase of electricity due to the carbon tax.

Before we even get to the carbon tax proper, the subsidies offered for solar have to be paid for somewhere in the economy.

I'll leave you to figure that one out.
 
SirRumpole said:
So does the guaranteed rate of return on investment in poles and wires.

Have a listen to this and do some figuring yourself

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/backgroundbriefing/2014-04-27/5406022
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Over investment in electricity infrastructure such as poles and wires is another issue again.

As for solar reducing peak demand and hence the demand for more power stations, there is logically the potential for some gain there but what about reliability and to what extent has it been quantified ?

Does it offset the government subsidies into solar ?

If rooftop solar is a valid argument for cheaper infrastructure for peak load, isn't there a case for private sector involvement (a private power company for example offering incentives to electricity uses to install rooftop solar instead of the government) ?

Smurf may be able to offer some enlightenment on these questions.
 
So_Cynical said:
No one is talking about the CEF, certainly not the Noalition...i got a letter from the power company last week with the headline "good news, your power bill is going down" didn't mention the 'bad news" that as a result of my power bill going down the Clean Energy fund would be wound up and billions of dollars in green energy DEVELOPMENT and CAPACITY would now be invested/created elsewhere.

Its a scandal.
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It may not even be invested elsewhere. Depending on how the economy responds to the mining CAPEX cliff it might end up invested overseas instead of here.

I just can't understand why you'd want to cancel a form of funding that marries public funds with private funds and makes a return to the tax payers along with encouraging up to $30B in private infrastructure investment. It's like getting a free lunch, week after week.

If the 7.9% rate of return is maintained to full investment then you'd be looking at $790M in income each year. It's suddenly become a perpetual funding machine in helping the economy to transition away from fossil fuel energy generation. How can a supposedly free market oriented Government want to stop that? It's achieving what DA supposedly wants to achieve for FREE, better than free because it's making a profit.
 
Watching parliament in action today, AND THERE IS NO ACTION.

The libs (ie. the government) do not answer questions and in nearly every sentence bang on about the carbon tax.

There is no vision or guidance on Australia's future, and still no guidance as to where our future jobs are going to come from.

Banging on about the carbon tax and the government debt does no cut it as running the country.:banghead::banghead:
 
FoA, nice to see all the conservatives working constructively together (doing last minute dodgy back room deals) getting rid of all that ugly red tape (consumer protection) so business can get on with making more jobs (ripping off old pensioners)

Win win for everyone ( Liberal party sycophants )

This is a great government doing great work for all Australians looking after those that are vulnerable (Big Banks)


Tried to find a reference in the Daily Liberal News (aka The Australian) strangely didn't see one.


PUP deal allows government to save its financial advice regulations

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...aves-tony-abbotts-reforms-20140715-3bzj5.html
 
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