The Abbott Government

[SirRumpole]

Better late than never amazing you have just come to this conclusion. Of course you will still find the facts on the ABC even if they have been beaten into submission by the extremist's from the right.

Its been interesting with the punters not believing Abbott (didn't give him a mandate in the senate) but sort of agreeing with the sentiment to throw out Labor.

Now that the population is being lied to on a daily basis, broken promises, everyone bar Abbott misunderstanding etc what happens next election when Abbott fronts up with more promise's?

fascinating isn't it?

What happens when he tries to negotiate with Palmer/Greens ? How can they believe any offers he makes them ?

 

[IFocus]

'(read in pirate voice)
Ahh come on Knobby, don't be like that.... 'They've stopped the boats'

LOL that's all that matters..................

 

[IFocus]

Its funny, my neighbors here are all from Michigan (up to a dozen at times), the "thumb" actually. They're all very much hard working mid westerners, with a no nonsense attitude. Pretty conservative, mostly republican. We met up with an old friend of mine from Australia, in Thailand, a Union guy. My Michigan friends just cannot get over the benefits for a tradesman/union guys in Australia. I mean these Michigan people are on less than half the wage, net net that my Australian mate was on (and he had no trade).

The guys from Michigan are all over Obama's big government and social handouts, more and more tax and healthcare levies. They really hate the entitlements that the GM boys got when they bailed out. Such a different view that you get from the working class in the US. They're all for business getting breaks so they can hire more people...

Its hardly the model for a successful economy given their track record, but its interesting the difference between the working class (blue collar or whatever) in the two countries....

Can the US is a poor example with a massive working class poor and the middle class going backwards in real terms from the 90's, 19% or the wealth has been redistributed to the very top end wealthy.
Biggest group of suckers on the planet as they keep buying the great American dream.

 

[Macquack]

This thread has now been Rumpolized...i.e. trivialised.

Get a life Calliope. Without SirRumpole, you would be talking to yourself.

Your biggest contribution to this thread was starting it, that is all.

My contribution, very little, except I think the medicare co-payment is a long overdue good idea.

 

[Julia]

With respect to you Julia, that makes this Budget even worse.

Mucking around with peoples lives for the hell of it ?

I understand what you're saying, but from the government's point of view, it's probably reasonable that they put out feelers as to how much the electorate will accept . That is simply being realistic.
But certainly, I'd have had more respect for a government that didn't do the leaking, but then made a decent case for the changes suggested by the Budget.

Actualy Rumpole, he is saying nothing and doing nothing untill he obtains expert advice.

It is a shame Labor didn't do the same thing when they were in office, we wouldn't be in the mess we are.

+1/

Many moons ago when the media used to be a reasonable source of accurate information. They used to get an expert panel together after a budget to discuss the merrit good or bad.
Now in the era of social networking and instant hit reporting, expert panels are boring.

To be fair to at least ABC Radio National, they did this and provided a pretty well balanced overview.

Now we have to have sensationalism and trying to trip up the politician or capture that close up of them picking there nose or ear.
If you read Knobby's posts, it is the poor reporting of the facts that is causing his uncertainty. The facts are either not reported, incorrectly reported or presented in a manner to strike fear into the reader.

Yes, exactly so.
This evening 7.30 had an item on students protesting the changes to university funding. They are full of righteous outrage that they might have to pay more.
But if you were to ask them who they believe should be actually paying for their education if not them, I've not heard a single one of them come up with an answer.

That is the the big problem with all the indignation about the Budget proposals. No one wants to take a hit in their own personal circumstances. Labor, The Greens, and PUP are all full of criticisms, but I have not heard any of them explain how we can cease borrowing the $1 billion per month that Trainspotter pointed out just to pay the interest on the debt, and how the reality that Australia has the fastest rate of spending growth in the world can be addressed.

It's about time some realism was required from all the detractors.
I don't think the Budget is as fair as it should be by a long shot, but let's not put our collective heads in the sand and deny that anything needs to be done.
Labor did that for six years and look where that got us.

And for all the people who vow they will never vote Coalition again because they are so disgusted with broken promises etc., OK, fair enough. But who in god's name will you vote for? Go back to Labor who believe nothing ever has to be paid for?

 

[sptrawler]

Get a life Calliope. Without SirRumpole, you would be talking to yourself.

Your biggest contribution to this thread was starting it, that is all.

My contribution, very little, except I think the medicare co-payment is a long overdue good idea.

Agree Macquack, even if they made it $3, it would make people think, do I want a coffee or have a chat to the doctor.
When I was at work, they placed work gloves on the store counter, to stop people from cutting their hands in minor accidents. Well they couldn't keep the supply up, as soon as a new box was opened they were gone.

The company decided to make it a store requisition stock, which meant you had to fill out a requisition form.
Nobody was interested in gloves anymore.
If it's free, people don't appreciate it, they abuse the privilege and it isn't valued.

A bit like advice or lending something.lol

 

[Calliope]

Get a life Calliope. Without SirRumpole, you would be talking to yourself.

Your biggest contribution to this thread was starting it, that is all.

My contribution, very little, except I think the medicare co-payment is a long overdue good idea.

I'm surprised that you are a Rumpole fan. Your support for the medicare co-payment is at odds with Rumpole's philosophy that the taxpayer should support all his needs. However it is refreshing to see that we can at least agree on the co-payment.

 

[SirRumpole]

I'm surprised that you are a Rumpole fan. Your support for the medicare co-payment is at odds with Rumpole's philosophy that the taxpayer should support all his needs. However it is refreshing to see that we can at least agree on the co-payment.

Back in the mists of this thread I said a $6 co-payment is not objectionable, it turned out to be $7 and even that is not excessive, however the increase in medicine prices is objectionable considering we already pay high medicine costs compared to similar countries.

 

[SirRumpole]

But if you were to ask them who they believe should be actually paying for their education if not them, I've not heard a single one of them come up with an answer.

HECS existed before this budget, and while it was a burden people seemed to get along with it at that level. It was a reasonable balance between user pays and taxpayer pays. People who have university education go on to earn higher salaries and therefore pay higher taxes throughout their working lives, and they pay their HECS debt off as well, so the idea that they are a burden on the taxpayer is exaggerated.

What should be trimmed is government support for courses that are not useful in terms of productive capacity, and there are a few of those (Arts, History, Philosophy etc).

Labor, The Greens, and PUP are all full of criticisms, but I have not heard any of them explain how we can cease borrowing the $1 billion per month that Trainspotter pointed out just to pay the interest on the debt, and how the reality that Australia has the fastest rate of spending growth in the world can be addressed.

There seems to be a general reluctance to raise taxes in this country, even though we are not highly taxed in global terms. If a party said "expenses are exceeding income, so to maintain services we need to raise marginal tax rates by 1% across the board", I think people would accept that, and it spreads the burden over all income levels rather than just targetting the low paid, but politicians see this as political poison and so they don't trust the electorate to understand that income tax rises may be necessary. However they are quite willing to surreptitiously entertain a GST increase/broadening which is a regressive tax that affects people more when they can least afford it.

 

[sptrawler]

There seems to be a general reluctance to raise taxes in this country, even though we are not highly taxed in global terms. If a party said "expenses are exceeding income, so to maintain services we need to raise marginal tax rates by 1% across the board", I think people would accept that, and it spreads the burden over all income levels rather than just targetting the low paid, but politicians see this as political poison and so they don't trust the electorate to understand that income tax rises may be necessary. However they are quite willing to surreptitiously entertain a GST increase/broadening which is a regressive tax that affects people more when they can least afford it.

Ever thought about doing some research before making claims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates

We are up with the best of them when it comes to business and personal tax rates and our gst is one of the lowest.
Not saying your asertion that taxes could be put up, is wrong.
Just saying your supporting evidence is unfounded.

Also your repetition about not increasing tax rates, when you are fully aware that the tax system is to be reviewed would indicate selective memory or memory retention problems

 

[SirRumpole]

Ever thought about doing some research before making claims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates

We are up with the best of them when it comes to business and personal tax rates and our gst is one of the lowest.
Not saying your asertion that taxes could be put up, is wrong.
Just saying your supporting evidence is unfounded.

Your table was simplistic as the following article shows. Maybe you should consider more detailed research than just Wiki

http://www.treasury.gov.au/Policy-T...ket-Guide-to-the-Australian-Tax-System/Part-1

Australia’s tax-to-GDP ratio is low by international standards. In 2010 (Australia’s 2010-11 financial year), the latest year for which comparable international data is available, Australia had the fifth lowest tax burden of the OECD countries (Chart 1) and has typically ranked in the bottom third of countries since 1965 (when comparable data was first available). In 2010, Australia’s tax-to-GDP ratio was 25.6 per cent — below the OECD average of 33.8 per cent.

Australia’s composition of direct taxes differs from most OECD countries. Australia is one of two OECD countries (the other being New Zealand) that do not levy social security taxes. In contrast, social security taxes are a large source of direct taxation revenue for a significant number of OECD countries (Chart 5).

Relative to GDP, Australia has the third lowest level of total taxation on personal income, which includes taxes on personal income, social security taxes and taxes on payroll, in the OECD (Chart 6). Australia’s tax burden relating to these items (11.2 per cent of GDP) is lower than the OECD average (18.4 per cent).

Most indirect taxation in OECD countries is generated through various taxes on goods and services. Australia has the fourth lowest level for goods and services taxes and total indirect taxation in the OECD (Chart 7). Australia’s indirect tax burden relating to these items is 9.7 per cent of GDP which is significantly lower than the OECD average of 12.9 per cent.

The rate of excise duty on unleaded petrol in Australia is 38.1 cents per litre. This rate has been maintained since the indexation of petrol excise rates to the consumer price index (CPI) ceased in March 2001. The impact of excise duty on unleaded petrol, combined with the impact of general consumption taxes (value added tax (VAT), GST and sales taxes), is shown in Chart 8 for most OECD countries. Under this combined measure, which illustrates the total tax imposed on consumers, the average level of tax included in petrol prices for the OECD countries was A$ 0.95 per litre in the second quarter of 2012. In comparison, the level of tax included in unleaded petrol prices in Australia for the second quarter of 2011 was about half this amount at A$ 0.54 per litre — the fourth lowest of the OECD countries for which comparable data are available.

Also your repetition about not increasing tax rates, when you are fully aware that the tax system is to be reviewed would indicate selective memory or memory retention problems

The Coalition had 6 years to formulate an opinion on personal tax rates, based I'm sure on input from the business community, and they also had the Henry review as mentioned previously.

I hope the current review is more useful than the "Commission of Audit" which seems to have been largely ignored, and is an example of "policy on the run" that the Coalition seems to be embarked upon. "Sloppy Joe" seems an adequate description of our Treasurer.

 

[Joe Blow]

Just a reminder that this thread is about the Abbott government, so let's please stay on topic.

To the few that prefer to discuss other ASF members than the topic of the thread, please don't. If someone expresses an opinion that you disagree with then feel free to take issue with it. However, as soon as things get personal the thread starts to drift off topic, with insults and personal attacks not far behind.

Let's keep the discussion on topic and civil please. Attack opinions, not other ASF members.

 

[DB008]

Agree Macquack, even if they made it $3, it would make people think, do I want a coffee or have a chat to the doctor.
When I was at work, they placed work gloves on the store counter, to stop people from cutting their hands in minor accidents. Well they couldn't keep the supply up, as soon as a new box was opened they were gone.

The company decided to make it a store requisition stock, which meant you had to fill out a requisition form.
Nobody was interested in gloves anymore.
If it's free, people don't appreciate it, they abuse the privilege and it isn't valued.

A bit like advice or lending something.lol

+1

I have a very close friend who works at Medicare. She tells me that they have a "Top 10" list. The list is the Top 10 people who visit a doctor each month.

Guess the demographics?

Old ladies who just want to talk to someone - aka - the doctor.

 

[Ferret]

There are reports in Sydney that visits to doctors have dropped off since the budget, presumably because some people think the $7 co-payment has already been introduced.

I don't know how it could be done, but it would be interesting to see some research into the effect this has on the nation's overall health. My gut feeling is that the majority of the forgone doctors visits were never necessary.

 

[Junior]

The fact that we are a relatively low taxing country, with low public debt and reasonably small government is a huge positive in my opinion. Look at those nations with large government and high public debt to GDP....they are all stuck in a downward spiral of growing budget deficits and unconstrained government debt. I'm talking about most of western Europe, the UK, US and Japan.

We should be paying down public debt over time with modest tax increases and tightening up of welfare to those who don't really need it (means test of PPL, tighten Age pension assets test and indexed to CPI only, broaden GST, reduce negative gearing and super concessions).

One day we might face a serious recession or even war, and that's the time the Government will be forced to go into debt.

 

[CanOz]

Can the US is a poor example with a massive working class poor and the middle class going backwards in real terms from the 90's, 19% or the wealth has been redistributed to the very top end wealthy.
Biggest group of suckers on the planet as they keep buying the great American dream.

Agree IFocus that they are an extreme example, then Australia is likely the other extreme really....

Being from Canada i'm actually quite socialist, i don't mind high tax as long as supports good health care and education. However having been away from home so long and having to pay for everything ourselves recently, I'm not as keen as before to pay for others....

 

[Calliope]

Agree IFocus that they are an extreme example, then Australia is likely the other extreme really....

Being from Canada i'm actually quite socialist, i don't mind high tax as long as supports good health care and education. However having been away from home so long and having to pay for everything ourselves recently, I'm not as keen as before to pay for others....

We are a Nation Of Welfare Whingers

If the federal government overnight reduced welfare, health and education spending to New Zealand levels it would be rolling in a $40 billion budget surplus next year rather than wallowing in deficit until 2018 or even later.

THE Kiwis may consistently flog Australia in rugby, but if welfare and whingeing were a competition we would be the undisputed champion.

Even after Joe Hockey’s tough budget, Australia’s welfare mountain will still dwarf anything across the Tasman.

The culmination of almost two decades of mainly populist budgets, the Abbott government will spend $6200 a person on cash welfare next year, over 25 per cent more than New Zealand’s government will on each of its citizens (converting all amounts to Australian dollars).

Education spending, at $2900 a person, is 10 per cent more generous in Australia but health expenditure is torrential by comparison: Australian state and federal governments will lavish more than $4600 a person to keep Australians alive and healthy, almost 50 per cent more than is spent in New Zealand. No methodological quibble could bridge such stark differences.

The relative splurge extends to hiring, too. Australia’s population of 23.5 million is about 5.2 times New Zealand’s, but as of June last year we had 8.4 times as many public servants: 1.89 million across our state, federal and local governments compared with New Zealand’s 226,000.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...ngers-look-at-nz/story-fnc2jivw-1226927507807

 

[SirRumpole]

We are a Nation Of Welfare Whingers

but health expenditure is torrential by comparison: Australian state and federal governments will lavish more than $4600 a person to keep Australians alive and healthy, almost 50 per cent more than is spent in New Zealand. No methodological quibble could bridge such stark differences.

So you consider health spending to be welfare ?

Interesting.

What do consider we should receive in return for the taxes we pay ?

 

[noco]

We are a Nation Of Welfare Whingers





http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...ngers-look-at-nz/story-fnc2jivw-1226927507807

Yes Calliope, these Australian welfare whingers just don't realize how well of they are in comparison to New Zealand and other countries.

As John F. Kennedy quoted back in the 60's...."think what you can do for your country and not what the country can do for you"..unquote.

 

[Calliope]

What do consider we should receive in return for the taxes we pay ?

That they be spent responsibly. I don't think the taxpayers are doing the whingeing. More likely it's the;

HALF of Australian families receive more in handouts than they pay in net income tax, new figures reveal

.

http://www.news.com.au/national/wel...s-pay-no-net-tax/story-fncynjr2-1226911042149