Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

The Abbott Government

Jump to new
Deal not well received from within the Liberal party wonder what would have been said if Labor caved in


Tony Abbott defends free trade deal with Japan despite farmers' criticism

The deal has prompted a degree of restiveness within Coalition ranks. George Christensen, a north Queensland government backbencher from a sugar-growing region, has queried the value of the new agreement.

“I appreciate that negotiating FTAs, particularly with Japan, is tricky business. But I wonder about the value of an FTA with any nation unless there's significant benefit for Australian agriculture,” Christensen told the ABC on Tuesday.
Click to expand...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ade-deal-with-japan-despite-farmers-criticism
 
IFocus said:
Deal not well received from within the Liberal party wonder what would have been said if Labor caved in


Tony Abbott defends free trade deal with Japan despite farmers' criticism



http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ade-deal-with-japan-despite-farmers-criticism
Click to expand...

Labor sat on their backsides for 6 years and did nothing because they did not know how to go about it...which of course is not surprising....If it was anything to do with the National interest, Labor did not want to know about it.
 
IFocus said:
Deal not well received from within the Liberal party wonder what would have been said if Labor caved in


Tony Abbott defends free trade deal with Japan despite farmers' criticism



http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ade-deal-with-japan-despite-farmers-criticism
Click to expand...

Never any mention of how long the foregone tariff revenue takes to be replaced by the increased taxes generate by the inflated projections of increased GDP. What taxes will rise / services be cut to compensate for the immediate revenue losses?

No mention that importers may decide to increase more expensive imports from Japan that appear cheaper because of the removed tariffs but leave the Australian economy poorer eg product A from 1 country at 10,500 (imported as $10000 + $500 tariff) is replaced by $10300 product from Japan (exported as $10300 with $0 tariff. Importer has saved $200 but $500 in tariff revenue has been forgone.

Throw in very complex ROOs and I don't see much benefit from any of the FTAs that have been signed. Certainly all the blue sky dreams from the USFTA have never materialised for Australia.

The fact is world population is still increasing at a decent clip, amount of arable land is decreasing at an alarming rate, most countries that have extremely high tariffs on agricultural products will face having to reduce them in the not too distant future simply to keep food price inflation under control. This years wheat crop is looking to be a shocker due to drought in much of the growing regions of the USA and Australia. I'd argue by the time we get any meaningful tariff reductions from these crappy managed trade deals our trade partners will be forced into reducing their tariffs on food imports any way.
 
sydboy007 said:
Never any mention of how long the foregone tariff revenue takes to be replaced by the increased taxes generate by the inflated projections of increased GDP. What taxes will rise / services be cut to compensate for the immediate revenue losses?

No mention that importers may decide to increase more expensive imports from Japan that appear cheaper because of the removed tariffs but leave the Australian economy poorer eg product A from 1 country at 10,500 (imported as $10000 + $500 tariff) is replaced by $10300 product from Japan (exported as $10300 with $0 tariff. Importer has saved $200 but $500 in tariff revenue has been forgone.

Throw in very complex ROOs and I don't see much benefit from any of the FTAs that have been signed. Certainly all the blue sky dreams from the USFTA have never materialised for Australia.

The fact is world population is still increasing at a decent clip, amount of arable land is decreasing at an alarming rate, most countries that have extremely high tariffs on agricultural products will face having to reduce them in the not too distant future simply to keep food price inflation under control. This years wheat crop is looking to be a shocker due to drought in much of the growing regions of the USA and Australia. I'd argue by the time we get any meaningful tariff reductions from these crappy managed trade deals our trade partners will be forced into reducing their tariffs on food imports any way.
Click to expand...


The time for the Japanese to wind back the tariffs to still a very high level was a surprise of course the spin doctors are working over time and yes would like to know which way the net benefits went for the USFTA.
 
noco said:
Labor sat on their backsides for 6 years and did nothing because they did not know how to go about it...which of course is not surprising....If it was anything to do with the National interest, Labor did not want to know about it.
Click to expand...
Labor's idea of international negotiation on agriculture was to ban live cattle exports to Indonesia on the basis of a 4-Corners program.
 
And after Labor did nothing on free trade agreements and almost killed the cattle trade with Indonesia, Penny Wong sits back and criticizes the Abbott Government for what they did not get in the agreement.....What did she expect Abbott to do?.......Hold a gun at the head of the Japanese Prime Minister.

As I always say, it is better to have a half a loaf of bread than no bread at all.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...r-lives-directly/story-fni0ffsx-1226878193669

And how about this from Craig Emmerson

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/.../if_emerson_says_its_good_hes_probably_right/
 
noco said:
And after Labor did nothing on free trade agreements and almost killed the cattle trade with Indonesia, Penny Wong sits back and criticizes the Abbott Government for what they did not get in the agreement.....What did she expect Abbott to do?.......Hold a gun at the head of the Japanese Prime Minister.

As I always say, it is better to have a half a loaf of bread than no bread at all.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...r-lives-directly/story-fni0ffsx-1226878193669

And how about this from Craig Emmerson

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/.../if_emerson_says_its_good_hes_probably_right/
Click to expand...

So in your opinion Australia got a better deal than the Japanese?

Getting a trade deal is easy. Getting a trade deal that actually benefits large sections of the economy within the short to medium term (1-5 years), well ain't seen Abbott do that yet and Howard probably set the bar pretty high on just how to sell Australia out with the AUSFTA - between 2004-2009 our trade deficit with the USA increased from US$ 6.4B to 11.6B and we're still paying up to 80% more for games, 16% more for ebooks, 50% for music, not sure how badly ripped off for movies we are, but pretty much all that content comes from the USA. In agriculture, there was no additional access to the US sugar market, and increased access to dairy, beef, lamb and wine markets was to be phased in over 12-17 years ie still 2 to 5 years before increase access STARTS.

I get the feeling the Japanese are laughing all the way to the bank, considering how beneficial and fast most of their tariff reductions occur at compared to what Australia is getting. 20 years for some tariff reductions to be fully drawn down - NOT REMOVED. Rice and sugar a long with a lot of dairy products not covered. Electronics, car components, elaborately transformed manufactures all seem to be tariff free pretty quickly. I'd think Japan benefits a lot more from those kinds of exports than we do.

Will be interesting to see if the same 2% increase clause on imports for agricultural products in any year from the KAFTA for unilateral increases of tariffs is in the JAPEA agreement as well.
 
drsmith said:
Former trade minister Craig Emerson is of the view this trade deal with Japan is the best Australia could have achieved.
Click to expand...

LOL. Miles away from saying it's a good deal.

I think there should be a legal frame work the Govt has to work in. No more waiting 20 years for tariffs to be reduced, yet alone not even achieving a full removal. I'd argue a 10 year max for full removal is reasonable. Having to wait any longer is really just signing your name on a piece of paper for political gain.
 
sydboy007 said:
LOL. Miles away from saying it's a good deal.

I think there should be a legal frame work the Govt has to work in. No more waiting 20 years for tariffs to be reduced, yet alone not even achieving a full removal. I'd argue a 10 year max for full removal is reasonable. Having to wait any longer is really just signing your name on a piece of paper for political gain.
Click to expand...
These could well be fair points, but not as a partisan criticism of the current government.
 
drsmith said:
These could well be fair points, but not as a partisan criticism of the current government.
Click to expand...

Well how's about we look at the Labor Chile FTA deal

* Elimination of tariffs on all existing merchandise trade by 2015 ie 6 years.

* Access to the Chilean Financial Services Sector on par with what we have with the USA

* Sugar retains a 6% tariff (Japan keeps 70%+)

Can't easily find a lot of other info on it, but seems agricultural products got a far better deal than what we got from Korea of Japan. Seems like we could will be at 0% by 2015.

The we have Labors Malaysia FTA - Jan 1 2013

97.6 per cent of Australian goods currently exported to Malaysia became eligible for tariff-free treatment on entry into force of the Agreement, rising to 99 per cent in 2017*. Australia eliminated all remaining tariffs on goods from Malaysia on entry into force of the Agreement.

Australian industries benefiting from the Agreement include:

milk ”” a liberalised licensing arrangement for liquid milk exporters, allowing access for higher value retail products;

automotives ”” elimination of all tariffs on large cars and virtually all tariffs on automotive parts imported into Malaysia from day one. All tariffs on small cars will be eliminated by 2016. From day one, Malaysia exempted Australian cars from its global limit on imports;

processed foods; plastics; chemicals and a range of manufactured products ””elimination of virtually all tariffs;

wine ”” a guarantee for Australian exporters of the best tariff treatment Malaysia gives any country;

iron and steel ”” tariffs on 96.4 per cent of iron and steel imported from Australia eliminated by 2016. This will rise to 99.9 per cent by 2017 and 100 per cent by 2020*; and

rice ”” open access arrangements from 2023. All tariffs eliminated by 2026.


education services - 70 per cent ownership in higher education services, increasing to 100 per cent in 2015; 70 per cent ownership in a range of other education services;

financial services - 70 per cent ownership in investment banking and direct insurance services;
telecommunications - at least 70 per cent ownership in all telecommunications services; and

professional services - 100 per cent ownership in accounting, auditing and bookkeeping services; 100 per cent
ownership in management consultant services (excluding financial management consulting); 51 per cent ownership in taxation services.

Seems Labor was able to get far more comprehensive and faster tariff reductions than what Abbott and co have achieved.
 
drsmith said:
How's about we look at Labor's Japan FTA deal during their 6-years in office.
Click to expand...

What's worse? Not signing a crap deal or signing a crap deal and crowing about it?

Labor seems to have shown far better negotiating skills. Best to hang off giving away the family silver till we're getting access to something of equal value?

If Abbott signs a China FTA I'd say it will help to make KAFTA and JAPEA look good.

So I can surmise you believe the JAPEA and KAFTA are good deals for Australia since you're bagging Labor for not signing one with Japan?
 
sydboy007 said:
What's worse? Not signing a crap deal or signing a crap deal and crowing about it?

Labor seems to have shown far better negotiating skills. Best to hang off giving away the family silver till we're getting access to something of equal value?

If Abbott signs a China FTA I'd say it will help to make KAFTA and JAPEA look good.

So I can surmise you believe the JAPEA and KAFTA are good deals for Australia since you're bagging Labor for not signing one with Japan?
Click to expand...

Sour grapes sydboy......Stop sucking on lemons...If Labor had done the deal, you would be crowing instead.

Chile ...Malaysia....What is the trade worth between them and Australia compared to Japan, Korea and China?

PEANUTS.

Great deal Labor did on the meat industry with Indonesia.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They sent a few Australian cattle cockies to the wall and few to their grave thanks to Ludwig.
 
noco said:
Sour grapes sydboy......Stop sucking on lemons...If Labor had done the deal, you would be crowing instead.

Chile ...Malaysia....What is the trade worth between them and Australia compared to Japan, Korea and China?

PEANUTS.

Great deal Labor did on the meat industry with Indonesia.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They sent a few Australian cattle cockies to the wall and few to their grave thanks to Ludwig.
Click to expand...

If Labor had been silly enough to sign these agreements I'd have been just as critical of them.

I'd agree that Labor could have handled the Indonesian live cattle issue far better, but then did you actually watch eh videos of what was happening to the cattle. I did and felt physically ill afterwards, so some form of response was definitely necessary, unless of course you don't believe that animals should be humanely slaughtered?

So I'll ask you once again, do you believe that Australia or Japan is getting a better deal from the Aus-Jap FTA??
 
sydboy007 said:
If Labor had been silly enough to sign these agreements I'd have been just as critical of them.

I'd agree that Labor could have handled the Indonesian live cattle issue far better, but then did you actually watch eh videos of what was happening to the cattle. I did and felt physically ill afterwards, so some form of response was definitely necessary, unless of course you don't believe that animals should be humanely slaughtered?

So I'll ask you once again, do you believe that Australia or Japan is getting a better deal from the Aus-Jap FTA??
Click to expand...

I will ask to you once again Sydboy, would you sooner have a half a loaf of bread or none at all?
 
Top