Tasered for asking John Kerry questions

[drmb]

hey drmb - you sure you know who has and hasn't been to USA lol? this is getting confusing .

Yes, made a mistake with the quote! Seems Wayne does come from the US so should know that you don't mess around with security, sheriffs, police, etc who tell you to do something!

It seems there are 2 opposing camps – those who have no problems with shoulder-chip-malcontents in the US who cannot understand simple commands being tazed (me), and whoosssy-wimpy idealists who think we can disarm the world to live in peace and democratic harmony. Put me in the first group although it would be nice to have the first but goes against all recorded history.

Here for the wide eyed Doris Days is what I have learned in life starting in central Africa, and living, working, surviving and learning on 5 continents, including missions for UN, MSF, etc

Don’t grab poles coming through the window at night (they’ll be trying to lift your pants and wallets etc) with your bare hands, they tape razor blades on so when they pul back you’ll be left with severed arteries (Rhodesia)

Teach kids how to safely handle a firearm before age of 10, and to be able to load and unload it in the dark, left and right handed, and to know where the safety is, and keep a spare magazine taped to it (Kenya)

In North Korea the 2 escorts assigned to you are there to make sure you are safe at all times – no need to worry about anything except getting your exit visa.

Don’t take photographs of traffic street scenes in Lagos, and make sure you pay your bodyguards retrospectively, with a fully disclosed very good bonus payment, and payed only when you get back home.

In the USA, obey any command of any officer with a badge instantly without arguing, within a second, or risk being tazed, or pepper sprayed. You can survive a Taser but probably not a Glock, Uzi, or Smith and Wesson.

Simple!

 

[wayneL]

Yes, made a mistake with the quote! Seems Wayne does come from the US so should know that you don't mess around with security, sheriffs, police, etc who tell you to do something!

It seems there are 2 opposing camps – those who have no problems with shoulder-chip-malcontents in the US who cannot understand simple commands being tazed (me), and whoosssy-wimpy idealists who think we can disarm the world to live in peace and democratic harmony. Put me in the first group although it would be nice to have the first but goes against all recorded history.

Here for the wide eyed Doris Days is what I have learned in life starting in central Africa, and living, working, surviving and learning on 5 continents, including missions for UN, MSF, etc

Don’t grab poles coming through the window at night (they’ll be trying to lift your pants and wallets etc) with your bare hands, they tape razor blades on so when they pul back you’ll be left with severed arteries (Rhodesia)

Teach kids how to safely handle a firearm before age of 10, and to be able to load and unload it in the dark, left and right handed, and to know where the safety is, and keep a spare magazine taped to it (Kenya)

In North Korea the 2 escorts assigned to you are there to make sure you are safe at all times – no need to worry about anything except getting your exit visa.

Don’t take photographs of traffic street scenes in Lagos, and make sure you pay your bodyguards retrospectively, with a fully disclosed very good bonus payment, and payed only when you get back home.

In the USA, obey any command of any officer with a badge instantly without arguing, within a second, or risk being tazed, or pepper sprayed. You can survive a Taser but probably not a Glock, Uzi, or Smith and Wesson.

Simple!

No it's not that simple.

The weakness of your argument is apparent in the use of non-sequitur and disparaging descriptions of those with whom you disagree (whoosssy-wimpy etc). I note folks only use these and other logical fallacies in the absence of any actual logic.

Comparisons with central Africa are irrelevant to 1st world society. Have a look at the videos posted by 2020 in this thread ==>> https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8320

What Kennedy describes is the America I used to be proud of. It still had faults, but its ideals were sound. What we have now is a creeping fascism that is getting ominously close to that dark period last century and America has lost its way. This taser incident is symptomatic of that.

Now, we would all appreciate it if you would leave the ad hominem BS out of any subsequent posts. Replace with relevant logic.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Dear wayneL,

I don't agree with you.

Garpal

 

[drmb]

No it's not that simple. The weakness of your argument is apparent in the use of non-sequitur and disparaging descriptions of those with whom you disagree (whoosssy-wimpy etc). I note folks only use these and other logical fallacies in the absence of any actual logic.

It's not that simple, just as you say. The disparaging descriptions were meant to be so obvious as too be self-depreciating, maybe too subtle for some.

Whatever the US that you remember is as long gone as the Africa I remember and grew up in. All the world has changed and without a doubt all has got harsher.

After looking at the videos I remain unconvinced that the SB in the question was unfarily delt with, given the key note speakers present, the security, and the US position that anybody can bear arms, and is treated accordingly. It is best if you are in the US as I am 4-5 times a year to remember this and act accordingly!

 

[2020hindsight]

drmn and garpal
try either of the first two youtubes
This is how REAL PEOPLE should react ok ?!?
whether American , Australian , bludy Eskimo, or Swahili.
U of F student gets tasered for having guts and a voice!

Andrew Meyer the American Hero - Sue John Kerry & the Cops

Miami student tasered for asking questions- full story!!!

Florida Police Taser, Arrest Student at Kerry Lecture
Police at the University of Florida are being accused of censorship and excessive force after tasering a student at a lecture by Democratic Senator John Kerry. Twenty-one year old journalism major Andrew Meyer was apprehended as he tried to ask Kerry about African American disenfranchisement in the 2004 presidential elections. Meyer was clutching a copy of the investigative journalist Greg Palast's book "Armed Madhouse." In full view of a packed hall, police officers cut off Meyer's microphone, removed him from the room, and shocked him with a stun-gun. Meyer was later arrested and charged with resisting arrest and disturbing the peace. He was released Tuesday morning after spending the night in jail. Hours later, some three hundred University of Florida students marched on campus in protest

Jimmy Kimmel talks about tasered kid at John Kerry Event

Jewish Police Beatup Andrew Meier, John Kerry, Skull & Bones
USA will always bring a smile to civilised people’s faces when they claim to be “home of the free”. and/or “home of the brave” for that matter

Andrew Meyer taser Ucla student tasered Woman in wheelchair
"we are giving up the first amendment"

Why Student Andrew Meyer Was Tasered

Re: Re: UF Student tasered at John Kerry Speech

Re: Warren Police Officer Tasers Handcuffed Woman Multiple T
One of the problems with tasers is that it is becoming a crutch for untrained and out of shape officers who couldn't do their job w/o a taser

This last one doesn't have tasers - but sure as hell illustrates unfit cop vs kids - with skateboards
“happy go-skateboarding day dude”
police brutality - go skateboarding day: cop vs skaters

 

[explod]

Bill Gates is giving all of his fortune, together with a lot also from Warren Buffet to relieve poverty and aid education in the third world. The money wasted on Iraq could have solved the alternative fuel problem with money left over to also attack the lack of education.

I am not against religions but if more money went to helping poorer countries in education then the religious teachings would be less potent. If polititians were more from the social science faculties instead of legal they would appreciate more the value of education for itself and as the key to individuals being able to make better choices for themselves thier families, the community and ultimately the influences on Government.

We need to support the Bobby Kennedy's the Bill Gore's, et al adinfanitum and continue to abhor the actions of moronic regimes and thier cops and work out ways to make stands against them. The hero's are in fact the so called "twits" who ask and question the actions of GWB as in the video heading this thread.

Just going along with the status quo and supporting the cops is the same as the famous placard at GWB's last election campaign "f..k the poor". If we keep going the way we are now the poor could soon be part of your family. The poor is the disadvantaged third world and that is why they have to virtually eat each other to keep thier heads above water.

Some moorons contributing to this thread need to take stock and have a good think about where the world is going.

 

[drmb]

Some moorons contributing to this thread need to take stock and have a good think about where the world is going.

See above from wayne "The weakness of your argument is apparent in the use of non-sequitur and disparaging descriptions of those with whom you disagree (whoosssy-wimpy etc). I note folks only use these and other logical fallacies in the absence of any actual logic." So am I a "Maroon"? I am semi-retired now, but still work as a consultant for UNICEF, MSF, UNAIDS, UNIDO, UNFPA and other UN agencies. For the last 7 years I have done med and vaccine project work in Bangladesh, North Korea, Nepal, India, Myanmar, Indonesia, Thailand, China, Cyprus, Cuba, Costa Rica, Oman, Iran, Nigeria, Egypt, Vietnam, China, Taiwan, Bosnia, Puerto Rica, Mexico, and yes the US and Canada, as well as other countries I forget!!

I have done the advanced security training courses required and think I know how to survive in these countries.

I know the problems are hugely complicated and not easily solved, and will not be solved by abolishing the Taser.

My point is mainly this, if you are in any of these countries you should be familiar with the local conditions. In the US, if you do not comply with police officers' directions quickly you are likely to get tasered. This has nothing to do with world poverty, or whether or not the US is a police state. It is a simple fact, and it will not change if a Democrat or Republican is elected next to the White House.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

See above from wayne "The weakness of your argument is apparent in the use of non-sequitur and disparaging descriptions of those with whom you disagree (whoosssy-wimpy etc). I note folks only use these and other logical fallacies in the absence of any actual logic." So am I a "Maroon"? I am semi-retired now, but still work as a consultant for UNICEF, MSF, UNAIDS, UNIDO, UNFPA and other UN agencies. For the last 7 years I have done med and vaccine project work in Bangladesh, North Korea, Nepal, India, Myanmar, Indonesia, Thailand, China, Cyprus, Cuba, Costa Rica, Oman, Iran, Nigeria, Egypt, Vietnam, China, Taiwan, Bosnia, Puerto Rica, Mexico, and yes the US and Canada, as well as other countries I forget!!

I have done the advanced security training courses required and think I know how to survive in these countries.

I know the problems are hugely complicated and not easily solved, and will not be solved by abolishing the Taser.

My point is mainly this, if you are in any of these countries you should be familiar with the local conditions. In the US, if you do not comply with police officers' directions quickly you are likely to get tasered. This has nothing to do with world poverty, or whether or not the US is a police state. It is a simple fact, and it will not change if a Democrat or Republican is elected next to the White House.

I couldn't agree more drmb

Very eloquently put.

Garpal

 

[explod]

See above from wayne "The weakness of your argument is apparent in the use of non-sequitur and disparaging descriptions of those with whom you disagree (whoosssy-wimpy etc). I note folks only use these and other logical fallacies in the absence of any actual logic." So am I a "Maroon"? I am semi-retired now, but still work as a consultant for UNICEF, MSF, UNAIDS, UNIDO, UNFPA and other UN agencies. For the last 7 years I have done med and vaccine project work in Bangladesh, North Korea, Nepal, India, Myanmar, Indonesia, Thailand, China, Cyprus, Cuba, Costa Rica, Oman, Iran, Nigeria, Egypt, Vietnam, China, Taiwan, Bosnia, Puerto Rica, Mexico, and yes the US and Canada, as well as other countries I forget!!

I have done the advanced security training courses required and think I know how to survive in these countries.

I know the problems are hugely complicated and not easily solved, and will not be solved by abolishing the Taser.

My point is mainly this, if you are in any of these countries you should be familiar with the local conditions. In the US, if you do not comply with police officers' directions quickly you are likely to get tasered. This has nothing to do with world poverty, or whether or not the US is a police state. It is a simple fact, and it will not change if a Democrat or Republican is elected next to the White House.

Beg to differ, if the larger wealthy countries were to set better examples, stop dropping bombs and thoroughly marginalise the rogue regimes (instead of supplying arms throughthe back door), encourage and reward good and fair government towards equal opportunity the world in a generation or two would improve.

Of course what we are both trying to argue is impossible. I give up that.

We need to drop condoms from helicopters and spread a desease that makes most of us sterile. Nostridarmus (spelling??) was said to be marvellous. He was just good at multiplication and new that one way or another the number of people on the planet from the year 2000 would overwhelm it.

 

[wayneL]

I know the problems are hugely complicated and not easily solved, and will not be solved by abolishing the Taser.

My point is mainly this, if you are in any of these countries you should be familiar with the local conditions. In the US, if you do not comply with police officers' directions quickly you are likely to get tasered. This has nothing to do with world poverty, or whether or not the US is a police state. It is a simple fact, and it will not change if a Democrat or Republican is elected next to the White House.

I think you've completely missed the point, judging by these comments.

How the hell did "taser was inappropriate in this case" turn into "taser should be abolished"? Talk about.... ohh see my avatar.

I don't see anyone here that thinks the taser should be abolished. Hell, I've even posted a video where the use WAS appropriate. From my own point of view, quite the contrary. They are a fantastic policing tool when used in appropriate circumstances... a godsend.

The point is that the taser should not have been used in this instance as there was no credible threat to either the student or the cops at that point according to their own guidelines.

 

[2020hindsight]

In the US, if you do not comply with police officers' directions quickly you are likely to get tasered. This has nothing to do with ..... whether or not the US is a police state.

drmb mmm
you sure coulda fooled me
in fact I'd call this reductio ad absurdum -
maybe depends on how we define police state - but I'd say you just went a long way to disproving your own case.

 

[2020hindsight]

http://letters.salon.com/politics/war_room/2007/09/18/taser/view/?show=all
some comments
Letters to the Editor
A few references to "police state" incidentally
Here's an extract ....

Some Americans still speak as though "we are losing our Constitutional rights."
If you are one of them, I've got news for you: Your Constitutional rights were taken from you a long time ago. What you are seeing all around you, every day, and in this glaring example, is that you only have the illusion of freedom, the illusion of rights.

More here (letters to the editor) on Miama Herald . - but I'll let you read them yourself.
http://pod01.prospero.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?msg=9028.771&nav=messages&webtag=kr-miamitm

Know your rights: The Kerry Taser incident
Police use a Taser on a college student who doesn't go quietly after posing an overlong question to John Kerry.
Tim Grieve [2007-09-18]

resisting an officer
When you physically resist an officer after repeated demands, you're asking to be tased.

-- pubpundits
He was lucky it wasn't a Blackwater mercenary
Instead of a taser, it would have been an H&K MkIV 9mm submachine gun and the Mercs would just hose down the whole crowd with bullets until they were sure they got their man.

It's happening in Iraq right now.
It will happen in America in less than a year.
Wait and see.
-- Garry Owen

Lower than Bush.
This is very disturbing. Even Bush security hasn't tasered any of his outspoken audience members.
--Anonymous

That's f*cked up
I don't know what's more disturbing, the video, or the fact that most of the comments on the YouTube comments page are of the "that little faggot deserved it" variety. Way too many Americans seem to *want* to live in an oppressive police state.
-- jfriesne

It's going to be about the Taser
Trouble all around. The idiot was deliberately disruptive and resisting attempts to remove him, but I would think with handcuffs and multiple police, his removal was assured. Kerry is going to get criticized for his response, but who expects that? And how should he have reacted? I might think of a better way, but I'm getting time to think about it, not having it right in front of me right now with no warning. Somehow, I think Kerry will get blamed for the Taser, though how it's his fault I can't see. I bet if anyone turns on conservative talk radio, this is a main topic of conversation.
-- webcelt

Asking to be tased?
"When you physically resist an officer after repeated demands, you're asking to be tased."

Please, think about that statement. If the Florida student's greatest offense was to ask a rambling, incoherent question, animated by conspiracy theories, then he most certainly was not "asking to be tased." The responsibility of the officers was to show restraint and only use force when it became clearly a necessity. Based on the video evidence, the student did not demonstrate a clear physical threat to either Senator Kerry or other students in the auditorium ... or himself. Yet officers felt it warranted to 'tase' this guy because he shouted as he was being dragged from the building.

Go ahead and make the argument that given Virginia Tech and the general mood that pervades the country (War on Terror, blah, blah), police are prone to overreaction. They probably are. But if the university does anything other than issue a public apology here, they are in the wrong.

Seems like the student's greatest challenge at this point is to choose from the herd of lawyers assembling at this door.
-- dmmacfarlane

Excessive use of force? Yep.
There can be some real nut jobs on campus police forces. We had a student cop at my school who carried a loaded 9mm around to breakup student parties in the dorms. Student cops weren't supposed to carry weapons, and this guy was totally gung ho. fortunately, no one was shot.

Still, if you are resisting arrest, you shouldn't be surprised if you are tasered or hit with pepper spray. The guy made his point (at least the first one), and he should have gone quietly when it was obvious that he had lost.

I don't think this is as big a deal as people are making it out to be.
-- bushwacker00

I don't currently live in the U.S.
but am an American citizen, born in Florida.
I have to say that this piece of video disturbed me on several levels.
First, this young - perhaps too enthusiastic - student asked a few questions of Mr. Kerry ... and the Senator is clearly heard to welcome the queries. Exercising his free speech right, he's attacked by the police ... what the hell?

No one in the hall makes a move to help him.
Kerry sounds finally as though he's mocking the man as he is on the ground, smothered by police.
He's 'electrified' ... why? ... because he wouldn't shut up?
He certainly posed no physical threat to the mob of cops.

The whole scene reminds me of something I might see on tv from Putin's Russia, not from sunny, smiling Florida.
Excuse me while I go throw up.
-- Zoshig

disturbing? yes. unwarranted? hard to tell.
Seems like everyone in this scene either overreacted or reacted very badly. When security started moving the questioner away from the microphone, it just looked like a typical case of security intervening with an audience member more interestd in being disruptive than in asking questions. Anyone who's ever been to one of these things shouldn't really have any problem with that. The kid seriously overreacted by hollering about how he was getting arrested; it looked like he was just getting kicked out of the forum. When he resisted, got tackled, tasered and handcuffed, that's when security crossed the line. And the audience clapping was more than a little unnecessary.
-- matttroke

The protester was being a complete asshole.
But the crowd, a bunch of sheep, let the Blackboots brutalize a man for speaking out right in front of their eyes and they did nothing. John Kerry did nothing.

We live in an ipso facto police state right now. This is what you must understand:
Some Americans still speak as though "we are losing our Constitutional rights."

If you are one of them, I've got news for you: Your Constitutional rights were taken from you a long time ago. What you are seeing all around you, every day, and in this glaring example, is that you only have the illusion of freedom, the illusion of rights.

You'll be OK, until the day you actually try to exercise your freedom. At that moment, you're going to get a boot on your neck and a Taser or truncheon in your kidneys by some blackshirt Gestapo in paramilitary gear.
-- Garry Owen

Four dead in Ohio.
All dead in 2007. Including that idiot Kerry who SHOULD have intervened and called for calm and called upon the police to let the guy have his fecking say.

The escalation was in PREVENTING a citizen from speaking, not the citizen's speech, for the love of god.
Good god, what have we come to?
-- Pickie Beecher

police state
I imagine things like the insane treatment of the student go on all the time, but seeing the whole thing as a video terrifies me. Since when has it been acceptable to remove someone and then shock them with a taser simply because they are speaking. Kerry's participation (by his silence) in this incident convinces me that he should not be a senator, much less a president. He was too cowardly to deal effectively with the Swift Boaters and he was too cowardly to intercede with the police to stop what was an assault by many against one. We are truly in trouble as a nation.
-- mr_kafka

 

[drmb]

drmb mmm
you sure coulda fooled me
in fact I'd call this reductio ad absurdum -
maybe depends on how we define police state - but I'd say you just went a long way to disproving your own case.

Hindsight - I have worked in North Korea, Iran, Cuba, China, Myanmar - the US is not a police state! I would rather have the US system as it is even if you think it flawed.
Explod - sorry, I just have to put you down as confused!
Hindsight - my last word, if you have humans making judgement calls then you will have differences of opinions. I think the officers acted correctly tasing the guy, you don't. So be it.

 

[disarray]

this requires a reality check. if you have never been in a proper fight then you don't know the amazing feats the human body is capable of when under stress - it can sustain an amazing amount of punishment and still continue to function. a human under stress conditions can perform amazing feats of strength and endurance and security forces must factor this into their reactions. add to this the potential for a suspect to be under the influence of drugs then asking security forces to tiptoe around polite sensibilities needlessly risks the wellbeing of the security forces themselves. this is an unreasonable request.

prior to taser and "non lethal" weapons people were subdued by batons or overwhelming force that was far less focused and precise. when someone has lost control it takes the strength of many to control in a minimally damaging way and so the taser is the perfect means to end these confrontations. the alternative is either clubbing the person into submission or forcing them into submission poses which pushes body mechanics beyond its limits. people talking about wrist locks or martial arts or whatever have no idea about physical confrontation and live on the same deluded planet as those who say "just shoot them in the leg" when some darwin award winner takes several hollwpoints to his body mass.

yeah I agree - when the mike got cut off he made a small comment about being cut off and seemed about to walk away. The police woman grabbed him for no reason that I can see. It would be interesting to hear what the police woman was saying to him in one of the video's when he said "I'm not done yet, I've got two more questions". I keep looking for some incident that justifies the initial restraint but can't see one.

you're watching a different video to me. i totally disagree with your assessment of the this incident.

once again, for the situation this thread relates to, the taser was a perfectly justified option. as for other abuses of police power (and 2020's inevitable youtube posting storm) that depends on the situation and is out of the realistic scope of a bunch of share traders crapping on in an internet forum.

 

[drmb]

We need to drop condoms from helicopters and spread a desease that makes most of us sterile.

I don't think the UN human rights charter would allow the latter, although the former could be arranged if you care to donate funds to UNAIDS, UNFPA, and PATH. However, I am not sure if dropping condoms by helicopter advances the debate on tasers, and when to use them

 

[explod]

I don't think the UN human rights charter would allow the latter, although the former could be arranged if you care to donate funds to UNAIDS, UNFPA, and PATH. However, I am not sure if dropping condoms by helicopter advances the debate on tasers, and when to use them

Yep, you are right, lost my way and my argument to you. I just do not like any weapons and if we are unable to learn to get on by the use of reason then eventually we will be doomed.

It is inhumane to bring people into an overcrowded, choking world and this will have to be faced also or we are doomed.

 

[2020hindsight]

drmb - US is certainly a police state according to many of those letters to the editor. If you are going to use Myanmar as a datum - then - (oh sorry, sorry day) - sure,the current USA might show up as "passable"

But compared to Aus they are a police state - and I can tell you we have our problems too. (PS No way do we want police using tasers. )

Again, drmb - this is how REAL people should react IMO. (or do you disagree??)
and note the warnings in the last quarter. (from about 3.00min mark)

"youtube is the future - you're gonna find out ugly things from youtube - and it's up to you whether to tolerate it or to change it - whatever you can't change you're gonna pass onto your children - they are going to inherit your legacy "

University Of Florida Student Tasered

 

[drmb]

drmb - US is certainly a police state according to many of those letters to the editor. If you are going to use Myanmar as a datum - then - (oh sorry, sorry day) - sure,the current USA might show up as "passable" But compared to Aus they are a police state - and I can tell you we have our problems too. (PS No way do we want police using tasers. )

I don't get your point. If you remove police you have anarchy. If you have police - you have a police state? I think we both agree that police are there to uphold the law, and they have certain powers of arrest and restraint, doesn't matter whether it is UK, Australia, Canada, or the US. The police powers are different in different countries. I think if the police had tasers for example here, that crazy Frenchman (and he was crazy) with his butcher's knife would not have died on Bondi Beach. The taser would have brough him down.
I have watched and rewatched the Florida video. At a certain point the young man is advancing to the platform where the speakers are seated, agressively, loudly, and waving his hands in the air which contain a book, but may also have a concealed weapon. Bad mistake. The officers training would well and truely kick in by then. Once the officers have pushed him to the back of the auditroium, he is warned not once, not twice but many times to stop resisting. The female officer warns him - "stop resisting", but he keeps struggling and arguing as if it was a debate. He continues to struggle. He gets warned again, and again. He is being held down by 3 officers but is still struggling. He gets warned again but still struggles and is yelling, even screaming. I am on the cops side, you don't know if he has a weapon, he is resisting, so ---- he gets tased, all according to the SOP. Simple message - if the cops say stop resisting, then stop!! But that guy clearly wanted to be a martyr and his wish came true. That is not a police state. If you want to know what a extreme society is like, please visit any of the extreme countries I have mentioned, see the reality!

 

[2020hindsight]

you're missing points 5 and 7 of my post #130.

Since I posted that, I find he said he just had 2 more questions - asked em - finish, no more talking, was ready to walk away, Kerry was ready to answer - but no, police pounced - FOR WHY?. Their reasons won't stand up in court ( for my money) - time will probably tell, unless they settle out of court of course.

I mean
Q1. he asks "why not impeach Bush BEFORE he attacks Iran!?"
HELL - he might even have a point yes? Or are you gonna follow Bush into Iran as well.

PS I withdraw the claim that the photo of Kerry (smiling) and Hillary Clinton (not smiling) was out of sinque and had been taken from when he says " hell Clinton was impeached for a BJ" - shows the bloke has a sense of humour - BUT STILL A SERIOUS POINT HE WAS MAKING IMO -

part joke on my part, but I was probably wrong there. (Hillary seems to join him on stage a bit later). I mean if Chaser can ask her about her relations with her interns then ....


Q2. skull and bones etc.

But I would still say it's the reference to Bush that makes those police turn their heads, and then decide to take him out.

 

[2020hindsight]

Not sure if you have seen the full story 20/20, but you seem to keep misunderstanding. Phelps was not in the same league as the SB in question.

Disarrray sums up nicely - 1. student gets up and craps on, annoying everyone
2. security asks said student to please stfu
3. student gets agitated, raises voice several octaves, begins to rant. loss of emotional control becomes evident.
4. discussion moderators cut microphone.
5. security moves in and asks student to please leave.
6. student arcs up, becomes highly irrational, pushes security, starts ranting, resists attempts made by moderators to peacefully remove him from the scene.
7. student gets taken down by security for causing a ruckus. continues to struggle.
8. student, in a highly agitated state and having lost control of his reason continues to struggle, despite repeated warnings not to do so.
9. student is tasered to end the confrontation.

How is Phelps actions anything like the above? I have worked in the US, if you get to 6, 7, or 8 above you are in serious danger of having strong action taken against you.

drmb - Lemme understand you too - a student who suggests that Bush be impeached before he attacks Iran is a SOB.
But Phelps is in a far lesser league IYO?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/09/21/2039907.htm
ALP candidate accepts 'Nazi' apology
The Labor candidate for the marginal federal seat of Eden-Monaro, Mike Kelly, says he wants to move on with campaigning after his military service in Iraq was compared to the actions of Nazi concentration camp guards.

as for Disarrray's summary ...

1. student gets up and craps on, annoying everyone.

I would say he participates in forum - has the microphone - not annoying anyone

2. security asks said student to please stfu

I would say he is asked to wind up, and asks two quick questions with full permission of Kerry

3. student gets agitated, raises voice several octaves, begins to rant. loss of emotional control becomes evident.

I would say that happens after he is "arrested" for no reason

4. discussion moderators cut microphone.

I would say he finished his questions.

5. security moves in and asks student to please leave.

I would say (since you see the bloke in the suit decide to evict him behind his back) that they move in and grab him.

6. student arcs up, becomes highly irrational, pushes security, starts ranting, resists attempts made by moderators to peacefully remove him from the scene.

the rest then becomes irrelevant to the argument of why he was "arrested" - if that's what they are calling it - etc .....

7. student gets taken down by security for causing a ruckus. continues to struggle.

see answer to 6

8. student, in a highly agitated state and having lost control of his reason continues to struggle, despite repeated warnings not to do so.

see answer to 6

9. student is tasered to end the confrontation.

see answer to 6