Garpal Gumnut
Ross Island Hotel
- Joined
- 2 January 2006
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spot on explod !
in exactly the same way that RAMSI have been so effective in the Solomons - disarming people whilst not carrying weaons themselves .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Islands
the US police / authorities / mentality could never have come close to achieving what we've done in a million years of bashing / tasering / weaponry etc
How about
"that people like the student at Florida and also Special Minister of State Gary Nairn's chief of staff, Peter Phelps, be tasered when they are difficult at a political meeting. "
But 4 policemen/women, one of whom would be at least 120kg couldn't do that without a taser when they already had him on the ground? That's the issue here, was the taser appropriate in the circumstances?Not sure if you have seen the full story 220/20, but you seem to keep misunderstanding. Phelps was not in the same league as the SB in question.
Disarrray sums up nicely - 1. student gets up and craps on, annoying everyone
2. security asks said student to please stfu
3. student gets agitated, raises voice several octaves, begins to rant. loss of emotional control becomes evident.
4. discussion moderators cut microphone.
5. security moves in and asks student to please leave.
6. student arcs up, becomes highly irrational, pushes security, starts ranting, resists attempts made by moderators to peacefully remove him from the scene.
7. student gets taken down by security for causing a ruckus. continues to struggle.
8. student, in a highly agitated state and having lost control of his reason continues to struggle, despite repeated warnings not to do so.
9. student is tasered to end the confrontation.
How is Phelps actions anything like the above? I have worked in the US, if you get to 6, 7, or 8 above you are in serious danger of getting strong action taken against you.
Just to throw up another possibility...What would they have done before tasers? They would have cuffed him, picked him up bodily, and frogmarched him out without any risk to themselves. That is the point, the officers were at no risk when the taser was used.
Just to throw up another possibility...
In the past, perhaps fisticuffs were used more liberally to subdue defaulters? I imagine that before television, and mobile phone cams etc, fists were quite a source of control for the constabulary. Unfortunately now (or fortunately depending on what side of the political scale you stand on) blood scattered on the screen is not good PR. Right to the TOP!
So, is the tazar, or pepper spray, or CS gas, etc, worse than a broken jaw, or eye socket, pre TV?
Maybe I'm overestimating media influence on policing practices...
Yep, absolutely. I've had some minimal training in controlling people through wrist manipuation (Taekwondo) and I have to say, it works a treat. Surely these police officers should be trained in those techniques. Perhaps they've gone away from that, for the more standoffish approach so they are not in a position to be harmed themselves. ie, stand back and shoot the person... Personally, I think if you're in a position where you have to touch, or be touched, by an offender, you're too close. Perhaps my military background is clouding my perception. I'd prefer to be able to control someone from 300m away....A simple wrist lock would have had him like a puppy dog.
wayneL - I don't think you have ever been in the US have you? Or if you have you have never noticed (as I mentioned in a previous post) that tasers, pepper spray, etc are readily available to anyone over the counter in the US. You can pick up a variety of weaponry at the shopping plazas, same small kiosks who will sell you cigarettes, lighters etc. In Colorado where I worked for a little while, K-mart, Target, etc all had HUGE weapons sections, including boxes and boxes of ammo, small arms, weapons, some of which did not need a cooling off period, eg single shot shotguns, single shot 22 rifles, and any air rifle or air pistol. You don't need a licence to own small calibre weapons, slingshots, crossbows, knives, pepper spray and your very own taser, at least not in many states. The US Constitution allows people to bear arms! The officers' training would tell them to take no chances, how can they possible know if some one is armed? Your idea of a quick smack on the head with a truncheon would leave more lasting harm than a stun taser. IMO - you cannot apply the rules of your idealist view of the world's best peacemaking practices in this circumstance. And if you feel safe now that RAMSI is "in control" in the Solomon’s, please feel free to walk around there. But if you pack a sad in the US like the SB then expect to get tasered!.... assuming no weapons are involved, then all bets are off
1. drmb - sure I've been there , many times - including conferences in Texas etc - worked with many Americans for a couple of years -1. 20/20 - I don't think you have ever been in the US have you?
2. Or if you have you have never noticed (as I mentioneed in a previous post) that tasers, pepper spray, etc are readily avaialble to anyone over the counter in the US. You can pick up a variety of weaponry at the shopping plazas, same small kiosks who will seel you cigarettes, lighters etc. In Colorada where I worked for a little while, K-mart, Target, etc all had HUGE weapons sections, including boxes and boxes of ammo, small arms, weapns, some of which did not need a cooling ooff period, eg single shot shotguns, single shot 22 rifles, and any air rifle or pistol. You don't need a licence to own small calibre weapns, sligshots, crossbows, knives, pepper spray and your very own taser, at least not in many states.
3. The US Consititution allows people to bear arms! The officers training would tell them to take no chances, how can they possible know if some one is armed
4. Your idea of a quick smack on the head with a trunceon would leave more lasting harm than a stun taser.
5. IMO - you cannot apply the rules of your idealist view of the world's best peacemaking practices in this circumstance. And if you feel safe now that RAMSI is "in control" in the Solomons, please feel free to walk around there.
6. But if you pack a sad in the US like the SB then expect to get tasered!
summary of summaries :-
4. why did the recess bell ring 5 minutes early, and
5. ........what's happened to Smithy??" [/B]
George Bush visits Bourke school whilst touring Western NSW..
"OK children" says the teacher - "aren't we lucky to have President Bush here with us today well, are there any little questions you'd like to ASK President Bush?"
pregnant pause, Smithy's hand shoots up.
"Yes Smithy?"
"Mr Bush" says young Smithy, "I've got 3 questions! - 1. why did you invade iraq, 2. what happened to the weapons of mass detruction, and 3. why did you treat the prisoners so bad ?" -
Dubya looks uneasy, but fortunately the bell rings for recess. "ok says the teacher - recess!"
Returning after 20 mins, the teacher again invites questions. "Yes Thommo?"
"Mr Bush" says young Thommo, "I've got 5 questions! - 1. why did you invade iraq, 2. what happened to the weapons of mass detruction, and 3. why did you treat the prisoners so bad - ........4. why did the recess bell ring 5 minutes early, and
5. ........what's happened to Smithy??"
wayneL - I don't think you have ever been in the US have you? Or if you have you have never noticed (as I mentioned in a previous post) that tasers, pepper spray, etc are readily available to anyone over the counter in the US. You can pick up a variety of weaponry at the shopping plazas, same small kiosks who will sell you cigarettes, lighters etc. In Colorado where I worked for a little while, K-mart, Target, etc all had HUGE weapons sections, including boxes and boxes of ammo, small arms, weapons, some of which did not need a cooling off period, eg single shot shotguns, single shot 22 rifles, and any air rifle or air pistol. You don't need a licence to own small calibre weapons, slingshots, crossbows, knives, pepper spray and your very own taser, at least not in many states. The US Constitution allows people to bear arms! The officers' training would tell them to take no chances, how can they possible know if some one is armed? Your idea of a quick smack on the head with a truncheon would leave more lasting harm than a stun taser. IMO - you cannot apply the rules of your idealist view of the world's best peacemaking practices in this circumstance. And if you feel safe now that RAMSI is "in control" in the Solomon’s, please feel free to walk around there. But if you pack a sad in the US like the SB then expect to get tasered!
8. (10s in the timeline – see third photo. SW)– the bloke behind indicates by hand signal across his own throat that the student is to be silenced.
9. this bloke in suit has decided he’s “not allowed to say these things”. He steps back to be out of the action.
10. “……were you in the same secret society ?”
11. he turns to face the police behind him - plus a student (friend?) who is holding a video camera – he turns voluntarily to police – reasons for his turning voluntarily unknown
12. (14s in the timeline – see photos) Police move forward. CONCURRENTLY WITH that Kerry is calmly saying - “OK that’s all right - let me answer those questions”. Kerry making it perfectly clear he had no problem with that.
10A. ??? SMH article.... "He had used his allotted time. His microphone was cut off then he became upset."
See their story doesn't ring true.
They made the decision to evict him behind his back .
they cannot pretend otherwise.
It was a complete surprise to him as it was to Kerry whao was starting to quietly answer his question.
I contend that it was not the case that "He became upset when microphone was turned off - hence police moved in" - he was escorted". I contend that's a load of bureacratic heavy handed bull**** that it clearly a attempt to rewrite history on their part.
SMH :- "While as many as four police officers tried to remove Meyer from the forum, he yelled for help and asked "What did I do?"
I'd also ask "What did he do???
PS anyone who doesn't know or doesn't respect or doesn't love the rules of a TRUE democracy needn't bother criticising - it's probably going over your head anyway.
no doubt the supporters or heavy handed US reactionary taser-wielding cops and/or security guards will say it's great stuff - - Down with people asking questions of politicians!! BRING ON THE BUREAUCRATIC BIFF!!!sheesh !!!
hey drmb - you sure you know who has and hasn't been to USA lol?Dear drmb,
I couldn't agree more.
Garpal
"He apparently asked several questions - he went on for quite a while - then he was asked to stop," university spokesman Steve Orlando said.
truth appears to be that he had finished asking his questions, and was about to leave the microphone.
anyone think otherwise? that we wasn't finished asking questions?
.... The officers' training would tell them to take no chances, how can they possible know if some one is armed? Your idea of a quick smack on the head with a truncheon would leave more lasting harm than a stun taser.
They didn't have tasers in my day. But have been hit by a truncheon once on the head, ( no jokes) and about the body, also kicked. Humiliated yes. Denied free speech in public yes. This nutter denied everyone else a go. So he deserved what he got. He 's a baby and should just move on. Garpal
I come from the US!!!!!!!!!wayneL - I don't think you have ever been in the US have you? Or if you have you have never noticed (as I mentioned in a previous post) that tasers, pepper spray, etc are readily available to anyone over the counter in the US. You can pick up a variety of weaponry at the shopping plazas, same small kiosks who will sell you cigarettes, lighters etc. In Colorado where I worked for a little while, K-mart, Target, etc all had HUGE weapons sections, including boxes and boxes of ammo, small arms, weapons, some of which did not need a cooling off period, eg single shot shotguns, single shot 22 rifles, and any air rifle or air pistol. You don't need a licence to own small calibre weapons, slingshots, crossbows, knives, pepper spray and your very own taser, at least not in many states. The US Constitution allows people to bear arms! The officers' training would tell them to take no chances, how can they possible know if some one is armed? Your idea of a quick smack on the head with a truncheon would leave more lasting harm than a stun taser. IMO - you cannot apply the rules of your idealist view of the world's best peacemaking practices in this circumstance. And if you feel safe now that RAMSI is "in control" in the Solomon’s, please feel free to walk around there. But if you pack a sad in the US like the SB then expect to get tasered!
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