Suicide and Voluntary Euthanasia

[bellenuit]

Anyhow she told me this is what she wants: I want "DO NOT RESUSCITATE" if there is no hope and If I am brain dead "PULL THE PLUG", there is no point in prolonging life. She said, note: "Under no circumstances sell the family home until I am gone."

My job is to carry out her wishes. The Lawyer said, "I am your witness and your Mother is of full mental capacity". "When the time comes Bill it will be your duty to carry out her wishes", "you have Power of Attorney." I was a bit overwhelmed at the time.

I have every intention of carrying out my Mothers wishes, why? because she told me to, it is my duty. No rat arsed politician or relgious nut is going to tell me what is right or wrong, it is written in law by my Mother.

I am fairly sure that allowing your mother to die when she is only supported by artificial means is perfectly legal. There was a high profile death recently where the news said that life support was removed from the person, which then allowed the person to die, because that was the wishes of the person in his will. I can't recall who it was, but I am pretty sure it was in Australia.

Where the law intervenes is when a doctor/nurse/relative/carer actively does something to cause death, even if that is the wish of the person. I believe that too should be legal if the person gave consent to euthanasia when in sound mind, just as your mother did in regards to not being resuscitated.

That being said, I know quite a few nurses who tell me it is not uncommon for them to "encourage" death when the know that is the wish of the patient and the patient is in severe pain.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

This year I sat down with my elderly Mother, my wife, a lawyer and a lawyers assistant to sign some documents at the family dining table.

My Mother is a forward thinking realistic person. She has seen death in her lifetime many times, through war, sickness, natural causes and accidents. She mingles with other elderly people and they are part of a support group. Sometimes I wonder why she called me up from Sydney to do this.

Anyhow she told me this is what she wants: I want "DO NOT RESUSCITATE" if there is no hope and If I am brain dead "PULL THE PLUG", there is no point in prolonging life. She said, note: "Under no circumstances sell the family home until I am gone."

My job is to carry out her wishes. The Lawyer said, "I am your witness and your Mother is of full mental capacity". "When the time comes Bill it will be your duty to carry out her wishes", "you have Power of Attorney." I was a bit overwhelmed at the time.

I have every intention of carrying out my Mothers wishes, why? because she told me to, it is my duty. No rat arsed politician or relgious nut is going to tell me what is right or wrong, it is written in law by my Mother. I really hope when the time comes that I won't be called, it would be far better if she passes away in her sleep but I would love to her go on for many years more.

I personally would rather die happy and in control and knowing what I am doing rather than suffering and wetting myself as a demented old man being feed through a tube in my stomach. How dare anyone tell me how to die.

I believe it is called a Health Advanced Directive, I had one done when I was in the ADF and going overseas. It is still in place.

Most muggles don't have the balls to do it though.

They want the guvment or doctors, or the hospital to make the decision for them.

gg

 

[Julia]

This year I sat down with my elderly Mother, my wife, a lawyer and a lawyers assistant to sign some documents at the family dining table.

Good to know your mother is being realistic, Bill. However, you need not have incurred legal fees to ensure her wishes will be adhered to. You will have a document in NSW which is equivalent to the Queensland Advance Health Directive. This is a legal document, completed by your mother (or you when you consider you should also think about the inevitable, even if it were to occur via a car accident eg), in conjunction with her GP.
It has multiple scenarios which you tick indicating whether you want, e.g. antibiotics, assisted breathing, in other words medical intervention of any kind.
For the document to be 100% effective, a copy probably needs to be lodged at her local hospital, plus a copy with you and her GP.

Having a legal document in place makes an unfortunate event easier for everyone. The medical staff have something clear to go by, and are not obliged to consult you when you may be in a distressed state.

My job is to carry out her wishes. The Lawyer said, "I am your witness and your Mother is of full mental capacity". "When the time comes Bill it will be your duty to carry out her wishes", "you have Power of Attorney." I was a bit overwhelmed at the time.

Presumably, then, you have also had her execute an Enduring Power of Attorney in order that you can operate her bank accounts, carry out real estate transactions etc?

I personally would rather die happy and in control and knowing what I am doing rather than suffering and wetting myself as a demented old man being feed through a tube in my stomach. How dare anyone tell me how to die.

Repeated surveys have shown that around 80% of the population thinks likewise. But without clear instructions to the contrary, the ethos of the medical profession is to preserve life. No matter that it's a complete nonsense when the patient is going to die anyway.

I am fairly sure that allowing your mother to die when she is only supported by artificial means is perfectly legal.

Yes, that's right. But to have the patient's wishes clearly set out in writing makes it easier for everyone.
You will always get some young doctor full of his own reluctance to not sustain life, an abhorrent situation where it's about that young doctor rather than what is best for the patient.

Ridiculous levels of expensive care are employed when people are going to die anyway, often because staff have no instructions to the contrary and the family are too distressed to be clear about what the dying person would have wanted.

Where the law intervenes is when a doctor/nurse/relative/carer actively does something to cause death, even if that is the wish of the person. I believe that too should be legal if the person gave consent to euthanasia when in sound mind, just as your mother did in regards to not being resuscitated.

I agree, but as the law stands at present, any medical personnel acting in such a way can be charged.
The way around it if the patient is able to communicate and is in pain is to have them respond "Yes" to the question "are you in any pain"? If the answer is yes, the nurse/doctor is entirely justified in increasing the morphine et al dosage. As far as the law is concerned, if the dosage required to control pain happens to result in the patient's death, that's acceptable.

That being said, I know quite a few nurses who tell me it is not uncommon for them to "encourage" death when the know that is the wish of the patient and the patient is in severe pain.

Yes, as above.

Most muggles don't have the balls to do it though.

They want the guvment or doctors, or the hospital to make the decision for them.

gg

That is sadly true. People are reluctant to talk about death. So they remain in denial of its inevitability until ultimately their families are faced with the reality of not actually knowing whether their mother/father would want heroic medical measures taken or not.

We are all going to die. Best, therefore, surely, to ensure we are not vulnerable to being kept alive through artificial means (something I can't imagine anyone would want) simply because we have failed to make provision for a more comfortable alternative.

 

[DocK]

From personal experience I can add that another important reason to have an Advanced Health Directive in place is to avoid dissent and stress between siblings or the surviving relatives of the dying patient. I begged my mother to put her desired course of treatment/non-treatment in writing, and to very clearly stipulate exactly what action she did or did not want taken in various scenarios. My brother and I disagreed very strongly upon what measures should or shouldn't have been taken to prolong my father's life, and I'm just grateful that Mum was quite clear on what his preferences were. Unfortunately the disagreement between her children did nothing to make a difficult time any easier for her, and is something best avoided if at all possible imo.

 

[gordon2007]

The wife and I both have advanced health directives. What I mean by 'plan' is that if we're in such health as we know we're not going to get better, we've got plans to end it on our terms. However we don't have the exact method down yet. The only thing that will stop either of us is if the last surviving person gets full on dementia so fast that they would not be able to act on our 'plan'.

Neither one of us are ready to call stumps nor do we want die any time soon. We thoroughly enjoy life and living. Hopefully we've both got a fair few innings to play yet. But when the time comes, we will self euthanise.

That's the problem. It is no use having a plan on having a plan.

Your final exit plan needs to be fine tuned and readily accessible now.

 

[explod]

The wife and I both have advanced health directives. What I mean by 'plan' is that if we're in such health as we know we're not going to get better, we've got plans to end it on our terms. However we don't have the exact method down yet. The only thing that will stop either of us is if the last surviving person gets full on dementia so fast that they would not be able to act on our 'plan'.

Neither one of us are ready to call stumps nor do we want die any time soon. We thoroughly enjoy life and living. Hopefully we've both got a fair few innings to play yet. But when the time comes, we will self euthanise.

Agree, me too.

 

[DB008]

Belgian twins killed by doctors in unique euthanasia case

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...se/story-fneuzlbd-1226553945755#ixzz2HzgNFjAD

 

[MrBurns]

Belgian twins killed by doctors in unique euthanasia case

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...se/story-fneuzlbd-1226553945755#ixzz2HzgNFjAD

How simple easy and right that is............

 

[sydboy007]

reminds me of my Gran when I was heading to Mexico last year. She asked me if i could procure her some of that stuff she's heard about (nembutal). Told her I wasn't willing to risk transporting that kind of stuff across multiple international borders.

After seeing her father die of lung cancer, well I have no faith in a society that forces the terminally ill to sip on their morphine and count the breathless minutes.

Length of "life" is no substitute to quality of life. I would say most of the numbats against euthanasia have NEVER had the trauma of watching a loved one face incredible pain day in day out with no hope of things getting better.

Within our family it's very clear that when it's ya time to go, don't let the doctors cheat you from it.

I remember my Grandpa telling the extended family he would haunt them if they pushed him into hospital to extend his life, but he needn't have worried. We were just lucky to have an understanding doctor who helped to move things along, but still, it really shouldn't have to be like that.

I can't help but think if you had a pet in such agony but kept it alive that the same numbats against euthanasia would have no problem criticising you for it.

 

[DB008]

Healthy Vancouver senior commits suicide in bid to change right-to-die law

“I am a 91-year-old woman who has decided to end my life in the very near future. I do not have a terminal illness; I am simply old, tired and becoming dependent, after a wonderful life of independence,” she wrote. “By the time people read this, I will have died. I am writing this letter to advocate for a change in the law so that all will be able to make this choice.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/02/11/healthy-vancouver-senior-commits-suicide-in-bid-to-change-right-to-die-law/

 

[dutchie]

Just watched this movie. Well worth watching.

http://www.sbs.com.au/films/video/21303875659/A-Short-Stay-In-Switzerland

 

[Calliope]

Essential reading before you have a stroke.

INTENSIVE-CARE nurses know things you don't and wouldn't want to know.

Kristen McConnell, an ICU nurse, writes for The New York Post explaining why they would never want to be admitted to hospital:
Last year I graduated from nursing school and began working in an intensive care unit in a large hospital. During an orientation class, a nurse who has worked on the unit for six years gave a presentation on the various kinds of strokes.

Noting the difference between supratentorial and infratentorial strokes - the latter having a severe effect on the body's basic functions - she said that if she were going to have a stroke, she knew which type she would prefer:
"I would want to have an infratentorial stroke. Because I don't even want to make it to the hospital."

She wasn't kidding, and after a couple months of work, I understood why. I also understood the nurses who voice their advocacy of natural death - and their fear of ending up like some of our patients - in regular discussions of plans for DNR tattoos. For example: "I am going to tattoo DO NOT RESUSCITATE across my chest. No, across my face, because they won't take my gown off. I am going to tattoo DO NOT INTUBATE above my lip."

Read more;
http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/diary-of-an-intensive-care-nurse/story-fnkgbb6w-1226786372897

 

[Chris45]

Essential reading before you have a stroke.

A GP recently told me that they would ignore a DNR tattoo because of the chance it may have been done while drunk or something.

He said that a wrist bracelet with instructions engraved on it might be more successful. It would be a major nuisance, but a wrist bracelet that could only be removed by cutting might work.

 

[Calliope]

An email today from the VEP

VEP Party WA Senate Campaign


We Almost Did It!


As the dust settles on the Voluntary Euthanasia Party Senate Campaign in West Australia, I am writing to all our supporters and Party members to thank you for the help provided to me and my running mate Jim Duffield.

The full results are not yet in, but it is clear that while we did not win one of the six WA Senate Seats, we came very close.

Let me explain:

VEP attracted more than 6800 primary votes (0.65%), which put us in a good position.
We then picked up preferences from many of the minor parties as they were eliminated in the distribution.
At each distribution another minor party was eliminated. VEP survived 33 of these counts, picking up votes from Save ABC, Wikileaks, Sex Party, etc etc until there were only two micro-parties left (HEMP & VEP). The surprise decision by the Liberal Democrats to preference HEMP before VEP, giving them instead of us an extra 26,000 votes, meant that we were eliminated on count 33 with a total of 28,644 votes or 0.19 of a quota.
Had the Liberal Democrats preferenced us (as we did them), we would have lasted at least two more counts, and passed HEMP and the Nationals, picking up HEMP preferences and taking us very close to the ALP vote. ALP preferences were coming to VEP, and with them we would likely have taken the sixth seat.

 

[DB008]

THE GREENS

DYING WITH DIGNITY
​

Terminally ill people should have the right to end their lives on their own terms. The Greens would legislate to give people that right.

WHAT DO YOU NEED TO KNOW?

• Terminally ill people experiencing intolerable pain, suffering or distress should be able to choose to die a peaceful and dignified death at the time of their choosing.
  
• Conservative MPs have stymied voluntary euthanasia legislation in most parliaments across Australia, but a 2011 survey found that 75% of Australians believed that a terminally ill person should be allowed to access physician assisted suicide.
  
• The Greens will move a Senate inquiry into voluntary euthanasia in the next parliament, with a view to introducing federal legislation to grant terminally ill people the right to request assistance from a medical practitioner to help end their life.
  
• The Greens’ Dying with Dignity legislation will provide terminally ill people with access to medical assistance to end their lives, establish safeguards to ensure to protect the vulnerable, and protect physicians who provide medical assistance.

http://greens.org.au/dying-with-dignity

 

[DB008]

Euthanasia drug raids are 'traumatising'

ELDERLY people are being traumatised by constant police raids as officers search for banned euthanasia drugs, a right-to-die advocate says.

A 64-year-old woman, from Dayboro near Brisbane, was charged earlier this month for importing a bottle of pentobarbital, also known as Nembutal, from Mexico.

Another person from Western Australia has also been charged for importing the drug.

Dr Philip Nitschke, director of euthanasia advocacy group Exit, says although only two people have been charged, up to 12 of his elderly members have been raided.

http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/two-charged-with-importing-euthanasia-drug/story-e6frfku9-1226925609982

 

[Julia]

Whilst in total sympathy for anyone wishing to have control of the timing and manner of their death, it is absolutely widely known that to import Nembutal is illegal.

So anyone doing so would have to be aware that police raids and subsequent charges for the importation of an illegal substance is entirely possible.

 

[SirRumpole]

Phillip Nitschke has been deregistered from the AMA

About time, the man is a ghoul and a disgrace to the medical profession.

I support voluntary euthanasia but we don't need people like him as spokermen.

 

[awg]

I support euthanasia with reservations.

Hearing Nitschke interviewed at the time, I though surely he has lost his mind speaking as he did on the case that led to his deregistration...he did pull himself together towards the end, but not before displaying a shocking disregard and callous attitude.

His excuse was utterly flimsy and legalistic, and did not adhere to the standards I would expect
(and are legally required, afaic, for a medical doctor)

This mornings defence that the man "was a serial-killer" is Mengele-like in its monstrosity

seems he was in extensive correspondence with this fellow, I have a feeling where there is smoke, there is fire..the cops and others want to bring him down, if he isnt careful he may find himself in jail for a long time....he appears to have made a character judgement in this matter?

 

[Julia]

Phillip Nitschke has been deregistered from the AMA

He has not been deregistered.
He has been suspended, presumably pending further enquiry. Nowhere has it been stated that he has been deregistered, so it would be good if you do not misrepresent the facts.

I support euthanasia with reservations.

Hearing Nitschke interviewed at the time, I though surely he has lost his mind speaking as he did on the case that led to his deregistration...he did pull himself together towards the end, but not before displaying a shocking disregard and callous attitude.

His excuse was utterly flimsy and legalistic, and did not adhere to the standards I would expect
(and are legally required, afaic, for a medical doctor)

awg, I agree it was a bizarre interview. My interpretation, however, is that he simply has a different attitude toward suicide than many. In that interview, his main point was that he believes suicide can be a completely rational act. In principle, I agree with that. There are many situations where the predicament of a person is so utterly dreadful that to be dead would be preferable. Therefore, in the absence of any assistance toward a peaceful end by the medical profession, that person will choose suicide, usually absolutely reluctantly and as a measure of desperation to escape the pain they are in, whatever the origin of that pain.

In the case of the person who was the subject of the interview, the 40 something year old, it seemed wrong to me for Dr Nitschke to accept (in the absence of physical disease and with respect to his age) that, before making the irrevocable decision to kill himself, he needed no psychological/psychiatric referral. This, it seems to me, and I might be wrong, is where the concern about his behaviour has arisen.

People are so quick to jump on the bandwagon of criticism toward Dr Nitschke. I'd just like to remind people that it's largely his single minded efforts that, over the last two decades or so, have brought the cause of voluntary euthanasia to public attention. The only other individual who has made a real contribution is Dr Rodney Syme.

I met Dr Nitschke many years ago and found him an extraordinarily compassionate and committed person.
I expect when one has to every day fight for what one believes in, often in the face of vicious opposition (viz the dismantling by Kevin Andrews et al of the Liberal government of a perfectly workable voluntary euthanasia law in the Northern Territory), it's easy for commitment to turn into zealotry.

The 'establishment' has been gunning for Dr Nitschke for some time and the interview finally gave them what they were looking for.
I feel sad and disappointed about it all. The anti-voluntary euthanasia lobby now has a tailor made case for why voluntary euthanasia should not be made legal. To that end, Dr Nitschke has badly let down his own cause.