Suicide and Voluntary Euthanasia

[Julia]

I understand what you're saying here JT, but there comes a point where there can be no doubt that an illness is terminal and the person will die, despite every medical intervention and the strong will of the patient.

What advocates of voluntary euthanasia are saying is that at that stage we believe suffering should be minimised by allowing the person an assisted death so that he/she can go at a time of their own choosing and not be forced to endure extreme pain and loss of dignity.

If you have difficulty with this concept, do you think you could try to explain why you would find it more acceptable to allow a dying person extension and prolongation of their misery when they want an end to the pain and a peaceful death?

I'm not asking you this in any antagonistic way, but rather in an attempt to try to understand why people are opposed to voluntary euthanasia and why they feel they should have the right to say when another person should be able to die.

 

[Glen48]

Mat be there is some difference between suicide and dying of natural causes , we will all die, just some want to go pain free and with dignity its their choice and a chance to say good bye to loved ones, much better option and guilt free for all.

 

[Calliope]

Apparently there is a new poll showing showing that two thirds of the population support voluntary euthanasia. I was just listening to a discussion of the subject on ABC radio...Same old Same o Same ole.

The government will never have bar of it. This is odd for a nanny state which want to control our lives from the cradle to the grave.

And i agree that politics, which never gets anything right, should keep its imperfect bureaucratic hands off this one.

I am firmly of the view that, whether to go or stay is a personal decision.

Anyone with a little nous can easily arrange for his/her own painless demise without causing undue stress to others.

 

[Julia]

Apparently there is a new poll showing showing that two thirds of the population support voluntary euthanasia. I was just listening to a discussion of the subject on ABC radio...Same old Same o Same ole.

Yes, I heard that discussion. The doctor from Tasmania was particularly paternalistic and sanctimonious. I wanted to punch him.

The government will never have bar of it. This is odd for a nanny state which want to control our lives from the cradle to the grave.

The point was made by the Law Professor that much of the political Right is against voluntary euthanasia, and that this is in direct contradiction to their philosophy that individuals should take responsibility for their own lives. I'd not thought of that connection before, but she's quite correct.

And i agree that politics, which never gets anything right, should keep its imperfect bureaucratic hands off this one.

If there is to be any change in the law, then obviously politics has to be involved.
Several decades ago abortion was illegal, women were required to leave many types of employment if they married, homosexuality was against the law etc etc.
Eventually, the will of the majority will prevail.

I am firmly of the view that, whether to go or stay is a personal decision.

Anyone with a little nous can easily arrange for his/her own painless demise without causing undue stress to others.

Unfortunately many don't have your confidence about being able to successfully take their own lives.
Hence the call for medical assistance.

 

[MrBurns]

I dont think there's anything worng with deciding to take your own life if you're of sound mind BUT
the problem is in a society where the simplest things are completely stuffed up by bureaucrats and Govt agencies the implemetation of such a thing would be too risky.

 

[Logique]

Opponents will eventually be painted into a corner, when it's realized that their worst fears simply haven't materialized. I think so far there's Oregon, Holland, Switzerland, more to come in Europe.

As for the Australian medical profession, their opposition falls into the same category as the domestic shortage of doctors, especially in the bush.

 

[MrBurns]

This breaks my heart..............

Mercy killer found dead at Perth beach

Police in Perth are investigating the death of a man who was waiting to be sentenced for the mercy killing of his severely-disabled partner.

Police are yet to confirm the identity of an 81-year-old man who drowned at the city's Floreat Beach late last night.

The ABC understands it is Herbert Bernard Erickson.

His vehicle was found in the carpark and his clothes were folded neatly on the beach.

Erickson pleaded guilty on October 31 to murdering his 73-year-old partner Julie Betty Kuhn by smothering her with a pillow at the couple's Armadale home in January.

The court was told Erickson was deeply in love with his partner, but could not watch her suffer.

He was Ms Kuhn's carer for several years after she suffered a stroke and was confined to a wheelchair.

The Supreme Court was told Erickson was honouring a pact with his partner not to go into a nursing home.

After smothering Ms Kuhn, the elderly man tried to electrocute himself, but survived, despite suffering severe burns and losing the index fingers on both hands.

He was released on bail to be sentenced this coming January.

When he left the court, Erickson told the media: "I don't want to go to jail, I want to be with my partner, but I'm here, worst luck."

His lawyer, David Manera, described the killing as a love story.

"This was an offence committed not for any gain by Mr Erickson," he said.

"He dearly and deeply loved his partner and it's not a situation where I say he stood to gain anything."

Speaking this morning, Mr Manera says it was not a simple murder-suicide.

"In many respects it was an act of love, in both what he was charged with doing and ultimately what he did to himself," he said.

Police have described Erickson's death as a tragedy and say a report will be prepared for the coroner.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-...o-partner27s-mercy-killing-found-dead/4381192

 

[pixel]

This breaks my heart..............

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-...o-partner27s-mercy-killing-found-dead/4381192

My wife and I heard it in this morning's news.
My first comment was "The do-gooders and churchmen have another man's blood on their hands. But they're so full of themselves and convinced they know best, that nothing will shake their resolve to stick their noses into other people's affairs."

I'm disgusted that none of our politicians have the guts and leadership to stop the meddling.

 

[Julia]

My wife and I heard it in this morning's news.
My first comment was "The do-gooders and churchmen have another man's blood on their hands. But they're so full of themselves and convinced they know best, that nothing will shake their resolve to stick their noses into other people's affairs."

I'm disgusted that none of our politicians have the guts and leadership to stop the meddling.

+1. That poor sad old man.

Calliope said a few posts back that it's easy enough for us to end our lives painlessly. I suggested it wasn't, for many. This awful case demonstrates that. Just heartbreaking.
Bloody politicians.

 

[Ruby]

I thought I would re-enter this thread because I made comments a couple of years ago in connection with my old and frail mother, and matters have progressed since then.

My mother has deteriorated considerably in the last year; she has had several falls, a few trips to hospital, and is becoming quite confused. She sometimes needs assistance showering - which must be very undignified for a proud and independent lady - her mobility is severely compromised and she is very weary. The restrictions necessarily imposed on her make her angry and frustrated, and even though she is extremely well cared for, it makes no difference. I can foresee the possibility of several more years of this gradually worsening decline, the inevitibility of which my siblings and I must also endure.

My mother would never consider an assisted suicide, even if it were possible, so she is forced to face the slippery slope; but looking at her I find myself fast-forwarding 20 or 30 years to when I may be in the same situation, and I know with certainty that I don't want to be there. It makes me more determined than ever to decide when I will make my own exit.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

This is a debate, which has been going since the time of Socrates.

Our diggers in WW2 had to make these decisions with severely injured mates who they could not evacuate and were about to fall in to Japanese hands.

There are thousands of scenarios, each a good argument for one side or the other.

There is no "right answer" on which legislation can be based.

It is a good debate and should continue, as by discussing it, we understand better.

gg

 

[DB008]

It makes me more determined than ever to decide when I will make my own exit.

I have heard a few 'older' people say this.

They have lived their life, done all that is needed to be done, and should be able to choose their exit, with dignity, when the time comes.

 

[Chris45]

Philip Nitschke has gone into the home brewing business.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-gas-import-scam/story-e6frg8y6-1226462002671

http://www.maxdogbrewing.com/

I hope he lasts.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Philip Nitschke has gone into the home brewing business.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-gas-import-scam/story-e6frg8y6-1226462002671

http://www.maxdogbrewing.com/

I hope he lasts.

Nitschke is an extreme end of the debate.

Be careful.

I distrust extremists.

gg

 

[Julia]

Nitschke is an extreme end of the debate.

Be careful.

I distrust extremists.

gg

He is very genuinely motivated imo.
Why else would he continually risk his licence to practise?
Have you ever met him?
(the question not just directed toward gg, but to anyone else).

Ruby, I'm so sorry about your mother. I think most of us have formed our views about voluntary euthanasia as a result of being in a similar situation, watching someone we love rendered vulnerable and helpless due to the fragility of old age.

 

[Ruby]

Nitschke is an extreme end of the debate.

Be careful.

I distrust extremists.

gg

GG - I can't agree with you. As long as we have politicians, religious leaders, and some members of the medical profession with their heads firmly planted you-know-where on this issue, and pontificating about the "sanctity of life', we need people like Philip Nitschke to keep forcing it into our consciousness. If he makes people feel uncomfortable and forces discussion....... well that is a good thing in my view. I agree with Julia that his motivation is genuine.

Ruby, I'm so sorry about your mother. I think most of us have formed our views about voluntary euthanasia as a result of being in a similar situation, watching someone we love rendered vulnerable and helpless due to the fragility of old age.

Julia - thank you. I only mention her because I think it is when we are confronted with a situation like this that we become fully aware of all the ramifications of this issue. I know you have been in a similar situation.

 

[gordon2007]

Ruby,
I went through this a couple of years ago. It can be devastating to watch a person go though this. It sounds like alzheimers is just kicking in.

As for me, I definitely plan on having a plan on how to end it. My biggest concern though is getting dementia and not realising i'm stuffed already.

 

[Julia]

As for me, I definitely plan on having a plan on how to end it. My biggest concern though is getting dementia and not realising i'm stuffed already.

I think that's what we all fear. And what leads some people to end their lives before they really wish to in order to preclude that. It's one of Phillip Nitschke's main points: that when people have the simple means to end their lives, they tend not to actually do it. It's the reassurance that escape from senility or pain of whatever origin is possible that then lets people stop worrying about it.

 

[Calliope]

As for me, I definitely plan on having a plan on how to end it. .

That's the problem. It is no use having a plan on having a plan.

Your final exit plan needs to be fine tuned and readily accessible now.

 

[Bill M]

This year I sat down with my elderly Mother, my wife, a lawyer and a lawyers assistant to sign some documents at the family dining table.

My Mother is a forward thinking realistic person. She has seen death in her lifetime many times, through war, sickness, natural causes and accidents. She mingles with other elderly people and they are part of a support group. Sometimes I wonder why she called me up from Sydney to do this.

Anyhow she told me this is what she wants: I want "DO NOT RESUSCITATE" if there is no hope and If I am brain dead "PULL THE PLUG", there is no point in prolonging life. She said, note: "Under no circumstances sell the family home until I am gone."

My job is to carry out her wishes. The Lawyer said, "I am your witness and your Mother is of full mental capacity". "When the time comes Bill it will be your duty to carry out her wishes", "you have Power of Attorney." I was a bit overwhelmed at the time.

I have every intention of carrying out my Mothers wishes, why? because she told me to, it is my duty. No rat arsed politician or relgious nut is going to tell me what is right or wrong, it is written in law by my Mother. I really hope when the time comes that I won't be called, it would be far better if she passes away in her sleep but I would love to her go on for many years more.

I personally would rather die happy and in control and knowing what I am doing rather than suffering and wetting myself as a demented old man being feed through a tube in my stomach. How dare anyone tell me how to die.