Storm Financial Group

Garpal Gumnut · 3 February 2009

Trevor_S said:
I disagree, it's some reflection not "no reflection". You have to start somewhere as a seller. I also have a rough guide based on what I know some places sold for and I see no indication locally of "tanking". The use of the word is hyperbole, IMO. There may be some minor pull back not a tanking due to the financial difficulty of Storm clients. That aside, I thought Storm victims were all portrayed as struggling near retirees doing it hard ? how can these guys be in at the upper end ? I earn into six figures and live in a small three bedroom unit.

Exactly... I see no evidence (doesn't mean some people don't have anecdotal stories to tell, I just see no evidence) of tanking per se in the "upper end" locally. Like I said, I am looking at about $700K or there about which to me in Townsville is the lower edge of upper end. I do think prices in Townsville are incredibly overinflated so a pull back is reasonable from being one of the most unaffordable places in Australia it's to be hoped for and expected.

I think I might wait a few months before buying though I have spied a place I really like

Townsville, from a contact who should know, has 6-800 houses and apartments for sale at any one time and last year they were clearing/selling in 30-35days from listing. There has been a small increase in housing stock over the NY however the clearance time has spun out to over 70 days.

Now the simple fact is that upwards of a thousand homes are under threat of repossession and how this is handled will depend on how the market performs.

More stock and longer clearance rates leads to lower prices and vice versa.

The sad fact is that many of these people have lived in these homes for a large part of their life and will depend on relatives or the social services to support them in their retirement.

So prices will fall and dramatically if the banks foreclose all at once.

gg

Mash · 3 February 2009

Then stay local you don't know what the real world is doing..... stay in your cacoon...what do you know..... know all know nothin you are what the agents call tyre kickers and bottom dwellers.... won't pay fair price just want a bargain.... no better than the scum sucking cassimati's of this world

Mash · 3 February 2009

Trevor_S said:
That aside, I thought Storm victims were all portrayed as struggling near retirees doing it hard ? how can these guys be in at the upper end ? I earn into six figures and live in a small three bedroom unit.

Cry me a river.....
Near retirees....or in my case....early retiree....but having purchased our properties over 20 years ago (in my early 20's).... and worked hard paying off these properties...I believe that we should ask a fair price for having taken the plunge early... what the..... you guys just love to sink in the boot don't you....who do you think you are!!!! You ain't all that!!!!

Solly · 3 February 2009

"Court blocks $2m Storm dividend"

"A court has ordered a freeze on a $2 million dividend Storm Financial's founders paid to themselves shortly before the company went into administration."

"ASIC's lawyers told the court the couple knew the company was in trouble and acted improperly by paying themselves the dividend, which is under investigation by the corporate watchdog."

Full Age story is here;

http://business.theage.com.au/business/court-blocks-2m-storm-dividend-20090203-7we0.html

Pindibog · 3 February 2009

Trevor_S said:
I disagree, it's some reflection not "no reflection". You have to start somewhere as a seller. I also have a rough guide based on what I know some places sold for and I see no indication locally of "tanking". The use of the word is hyperbole, IMO. There may be some minor pull back not a tanking due to the financial difficulty of Storm clients. That aside, I thought Storm victims were all portrayed as struggling near retirees doing it hard ? how can these guys be in at the upper end ? I earn into six figures and live in a small three bedroom unit.

Exactly... I see no evidence (doesn't mean some people don't have anecdotal stories to tell, I just see no evidence) of tanking per se in the "upper end" locally. Like I said, I am looking at about $700K or there about which to me in Townsville is the lower edge of upper end. I do think prices in Townsville are incredibly overinflated so a pull back is reasonable from being one of the most unaffordable places in Australia it's to be hoped for and expected.

I think I might wait a few months before buying though I have spied a place I really like

I am and know lots of storm clients and they don't live high end ! Average suburbia at best! Hey six figures....any openings going?

Solly · 3 February 2009

"FPA investigating Storm advisers"

'Ten of Storm's advisers are registered with the FPA and are now being investigated for possible breaches of the association's code of practice.'

ABC story is here:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/03/2480716.htm

Garpal Gumnut · 3 February 2009

Solly said:
"Court blocks $2m Storm dividend"

"A court has ordered a freeze on a $2 million dividend Storm Financial's founders paid to themselves shortly before the company went into administration."

"ASIC's lawyers told the court the couple knew the company was in trouble and acted improperly by paying themselves the dividend, which is under investigation by the corporate watchdog."

Full Age story is here;

http://business.theage.com.au/business/court-blocks-2m-storm-dividend-20090203-7we0.html

Good one.

Lets hope ASIC do more to help claw back some of the losses the Storm customers have suffered.

The FPA, Financial Planners Association need investigating as well. They did little to warn investors before the catastrophic demise of Storm.

gg

GumbyLearner · 3 February 2009

Garpal Gumnut said:
Good one.

Lets hope ASIC do more to help claw back some of the losses the Storm customers have suffered.

The FPA, Financial Planners Association need investigating as well. They did little to warn investors before the catastrophic demise of Storm.

gg

Yes. Shady industry without any checks or controls. Promise you the earth...and where's your earth?

Julia · 3 February 2009

Mash said:
Cry me a river.....
Near retirees....or in my case....early retiree....but having purchased our properties over 20 years ago (in my early 20's).... and worked hard paying off these properties...I believe that we should ask a fair price for having taken the plunge early... what the..... you guys just love to sink in the boot don't you....who do you think you are!!!! You ain't all that!!!!

Mash, you can ask whatever you like. Sadly, however, a property is only worth what the market will pay.
You say "paying off these properties' (plural). This would suggest (perhaps quite incorrectly) that both/all of your properties were borrowed against to further increase your wealth. Just wondering, did you have a dollar figure in mind when enough would have been enough?

Solly said:
"Court blocks $2m Storm dividend"

"A court has ordered a freeze on a $2 million dividend Storm Financial's founders paid to themselves shortly before the company went into administration."

"ASIC's lawyers told the court the couple knew the company was in trouble and acted improperly by paying themselves the dividend, which is under investigation by the corporate watchdog."

Full Age story is here;

http://business.theage.com.au/business/court-blocks-2m-storm-dividend-20090203-7we0.html

Thanks for that link. Good to know ASIC is actually finally doing something useful. I wonder if they might find a way to garner the proceeds of the Cassimatis' various assets. Then we could actually see whether Emmanuel really means his avowed intent to apply whatever they can salvage to easing the difficulties of clients. I won't be holding my breath.

Julia · 3 February 2009

Garpal Gumnut said:
Good one.

Lets hope ASIC do more to help claw back some of the losses the Storm customers have suffered.

The FPA, Financial Planners Association need investigating as well. They did little to warn investors before the catastrophic demise of Storm.

gg

Indeed they did not. But, gg, I wonder if that's their role? Doesn't any industry association exist for the benefit of its members primarily?

Warnings to investors should be the province of ASIC, shouldn't it?
It seems they had received several complaints about Storm going back quite a few years, but failed to find any problem. Hardly reassures us about the watchdog capacity of our regulator.

bunyip · 3 February 2009

Mash said:
Then stay local you don't know what the real world is doing..... stay in your cacoon...what do you know..... know all know nothin you are what the agents call tyre kickers and bottom dwellers.... won't pay fair price just want a bargain.... no better than the scum sucking cassimati's of this world

Aren't you over-reacting a bit here, ol' son?
There's nothing new about buyers looking for bargains, we've all done it - you've probably done it yourself.
Fair value is determined by the market.

nunthewiser · 3 February 2009

bunyip said:
Aren't you over-reacting a bit here, ol' son?
There's nothing new about buyers looking for bargains, we've all done it - you've probably done it yourself.
Fair value is determined by the market.

Just wondering if mash paid full list price when he bought his propertys or he negotiated like the rest of us

Mash · 3 February 2009

How typical for you to assume I am a he.... laughs on you... I am woman hear me roar!!!!

nunthewiser · 3 February 2009

Just wondering if mash paid full list price when she bought her propertys or she negotiated like the rest of us

apologys for taking your sexuality for granted

bunyip · 3 February 2009

Mash said:
How typical for you to assume I am a he.... laughs on you... I am woman hear me roar!!!!

Couldn't care less about what gender you are....but you need to get your emotions under control.

Solly · 4 February 2009

Garpal Gumnut said:
Good one.

Lets hope ASIC do more to help claw back some of the losses the Storm customers have suffered.

The FPA, Financial Planners Association need investigating as well. They did little to warn investors before the catastrophic demise of Storm.

gg

Again today I have spoken with ex clients. I am totally dismayed that people were so "hands off" with their investments. I was even recently told don't worry EC will handle evetything and he'll sort it out. Never in my life do I trust any one organisation to monitor or manage my affairs. These people are now learning a very tough lesson. Some are now displaying emence anger towards their previous saviour and financial guru. I keep saying that this is wasted energy. While they hold this position it holds them back from moving forward. I believe that EC & JC are not evil scammers, they just held a belief that their strategy was a way to help others gain financial security while paying a good dividend to themselves to secure tneir future as well. I listened to that ABC interview several times and I hear a very scared devistated man, probably still in shock and in disbelief as to what has happened. To me he displays the behaviours of someone that truly wishes that these events could be reversed. The facts are that the company is gone and smoldering ruins remains. He's spent 34 years in this industry and held a basic belief that his strategy was sound only to find that circumstances have proved otherwise. His behaviours to me display someone who will not flee but will try to rebuild again. I believe that he will most likely be demolished by this event as well. I don't condone his business strategies or previous life style but the blame does not lay fully with him. No amount of anger or ill feelings will change the circumstances. There will be multiple factors which caused this event, there are emence and hard learnings for all parties in this episode.

Mash · 4 February 2009

Julia said:
Mash, you can ask whatever you like. Sadly, however, a property is only worth what the market will pay.
You say "paying off these properties' (plural). This would suggest (perhaps quite incorrectly) that both/all of your properties were borrowed against to further increase your wealth. Just wondering, did you have a dollar figure in mind when enough would have been enough?

Do you have a dollar figure where you know for sure what will keep you going for the rest of your life..... My crystal ball is obviously not as good as yours.... I was prepared to use what I had acquired to add to my nest egg.... prepared to be in it for the long haul..... and thought with PROFESSIONAL advice I would be able to sell down when needed and sit it out until it was safe to get back into the market... that was what I signed up for..... not to be stalled and kept in the market until the margin loan was higher than the securing portfolio... how else do we explain to you all...we were not greedy when we signed up with storm..... our expectations were hightened as we went along... and yes we expected good returns... but I have paid a heap of taxes over the years...having well and truly done my bit... tall poppy syndrome is alive and well in Aus.... I will recover...I still have some get up and go.... Cassimatis will not sink me... nor will all the nay sayers on this forum like those who seem to relish kicking those who have taken a king hit.... say what u will.... words are cheap.... I must say all of your bashing has made me realise the only people that really count are those I respect and hold dear... I'm glad I have those people in my life and take what the likes of this forum have to say with a grain of salt..... it's been well interesting....!!!!!!

shibby · 4 February 2009

Mash said:
... tall poppy syndrome is alive and well in Aus.... I will recover...I still have some get up and go.... Cassimatis will not sink me... nor will all the nay sayers on this forum like those who seem to relish kicking those who have taken a king hit.... say what u will.... words are cheap.... I must say all of your bashing has made me realise the only people that really count are those I respect and hold dear... I'm glad I have those people in my life and take what the likes of this forum have to say with a grain of salt..... it's been well interesting....!!!!!!

Go girl !! well said, they really are the pits aren't they?
I wonder what sort of life they really lead?
On this forum they can pretend to be any thing. It's all an illusion - we don't know if your successful, you can make up any thing you like and pretend to be who you want to be.
The sad thing is that you obviously get great pleasure out of putting the boot in and I pity you.
I might be poor but I am loved and cherished and Mash I bet you are too.
I will also sign off with..... it's been interesting.

MR. · 4 February 2009

Mash said:
Do you have a dollar figure where you know for sure what will keep you going for the rest of your life..... My crystal ball is obviously not as good as yours.... I was prepared to use what I had acquired to add to my nest egg.... prepared to be in it for the long haul..... and thought with PROFESSIONAL advice I would be able to sell down when needed and sit it out until it was safe to get back into the market... that was what I signed up for..... not to be stalled and kept in the market until the margin loan was higher than the securing portfolio... how else do we explain to you all...we were not greedy when we signed up with storm..... our expectations were hightened as we went along... and yes we expected good returns... but I have paid a heap of taxes over the years...having well and truly done my bit... tall poppy syndrome is alive and well in Aus.... I will recover...I still have some get up and go.... Cassimatis will not sink me... nor will all the nay sayers on this forum like those who seem to relish kicking those who have taken a king hit.... say what u will.... words are cheap.... I must say all of your bashing has made me realise the only people that really count are those I respect and hold dear... I'm glad I have those people in my life and take what the likes of this forum have to say with a grain of salt..... it's been well interesting....!!!!!!

Tacticle questioning there people! Are people always just over powered by greed? Some perhaps just got lucky and got out the market after the first little shocks? Easy for a trader/invester with their finger on the pulse hey? Only had to answer to themselves! So did a little more reading than perhaps someone who "pays" a fund manager?

Would have been hard for Storm to sell down such a large portfolio! Questions either way!

Storm's leveraged model was indeed flawed.
Who's fault was it?

Storm's ..... no question
They bloody came up with it!

Trevor_S · 4 February 2009

Garpal Gumnut said:
So prices will fall and dramatically if the banks foreclose all at once.

Indeed.. BUT go back and read what I was debating, it was stated that prices had TANKED already due to the Storm fiasco.debacle.drama (insert word of choice), not theorising that they might. I was just pointing out that in my experience so far, they had not and I had yet to see any real evidence of prices "tanking". I had seen a moderate retreat, (in line with the rest of Aus) and a lengthening of clearance times, (in line with the rest of Aus), so there seemed little evidence to support the bold tanking of prices statement... so I called bullsh_it though I did seek clarification on the posters definition of tanking...suspecting it more a newspaper headline then reality on the ground.

As to being a bottom feeder, I don't agree I am. I do not purchase when I don't see value, I am not sure how this qualifies me as a bottom feeder per se ? if I don't see value, I don't purchase, this manifesto has served me well in business and investing (share and property).

My throw away line in regards retirees living the high life was a mirrored reflection of the portrayal in the printed media, no doubt highlighting the most desperate cases in order to tug at the publics heart strings and sell more newspapers, often not reporting the true facts at all. None of which detracts of course from the real pain some are feeling.

shibby said:
The sad thing is that you obviously get great pleasure out of putting the boot in and I pity you.

You must read a different forum to me, I have yet to see anyone putting the boot in, a few that are incredulous at the investment strategy followed, a few wanting to seek clarification on the process involved and some saying that Storm's clients have to bear some of the responsibility but not boot sticking in from what I can see.

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