Storm Financial Group

[sqwark7600]

Good morning.

I’m straying a bit off the topic here but I was just wondering how you can break a quote into individual sub quotes, as demonstrated by Julia in post #386?

Thanks in advance.

Good morning. I just copy and paste the bracketed QUOTE command ahead and after the section I want quoted and repeat for each section thereafter with the above results. Regards.

 

[bunyip]

I have met some former clients, they still feel that the Cassimitis's were unfairly treated by the Comm Bank, they are angry, upset and in debt up to their necks.

They still think Storm had the answers for them,......riches and money. All without effort. Just let the market do the work and somebody else will make you rich. You just live off the efforts of others with out any input or elbow grease from yourself

Maybe with the use of fiat money, the principles of fractional reserve banking, the magic of double entry booking and a sprinkling of fairy dust....this sure fire way to riches could just work again.....:bonk:

Solly

My grandfather had a saying that pretty much sums up what you've said above....'the best fertiliser for any business is the footprints of its owner'.

 

[Solly]

Solly, any actual tips on how you gained your wealth?

Here are a few of my beliefs, It may not be what you expect. These views are not unique to me, it's probably just restating obvioius things.
I'll try and revist later as I'm heading out now and I really don't like typing from my Crackberry.

First of all you must define what you want.
Is it a new house, a certain amount of money, a better life by doing something or taking some type of action etc, developing a new product.

This is the most important step. You cannot reach a destination if you don't know where you are travelling to. Don't say things like a I want to have heaps of money. Be specific to the point and head for it.

Determine what you mean by wealth/riches.
Money does not equal riches.
Living in the biggest tin shed on the hill with views to the island doesn't always mean wealth. This is equally important.

Think back to some of the happiest times in your life, see that is a definition of riches. I bet you didn't think back to a time you checked you statement of position or bank balance.

Set a time frame, set milestones, pick a realistic end date to arrive.

How will you do it, Plan your strategy and implement it.
Be willing to fine tune your course.

Surround yourself with people or have access to people who are much smarter than you.

Listen more than you talk, never be afraid to ask questions.

Remember it's all about the journey, enjoy it.

During the take-off roll, be prepared to abort before V1, when you Rotate you are committed to that course. If things go bad after that brace and prepare for impact. Always be have a seat near the exit, always have an exit strategy.

Be prepared to really make huge mistakes, take a breather pick up the pieces and start again

It's a boring & tiring life travelling around strapped in row 1A.

Avoid people that impede your progress,

Be firm but fair.

Stick with your decisions, if you are wrong, admit it, build a bridge and get over it. Move to the next task.

Always live with in your means.
Never buy any article, car, house, clothes, just to impress others.

You don't necesarily need to own something to have access to enjoy or use it. Many things are free or can be accessed in a "pay per use" manner.
It's still "yours" for that time.

Always "pay" yourself first, before paying others.

Never watch Today Tonight or A Current Affair nor any other mind numbing TV.

Google the name: Hyman Minsky. Read and consider his theories.

Never, Never, chase something just for dollars.

I'll elaborate more later....

But it's really all about, pre-planning, implementation, handling variation and steering things to a successful completion. No matter what the task is.

Managing your available time is critical. Time management is simple but has huge payoffs. I call it Time Management Leverage.

Having a JOB ( Just over Broke ) is a good thing, you don't need to own a business or corporation to be rich.

Never be greedy, we live in one of the richest, wealthiest places in the world, cherrish this land.

 

[sqwark7600]

For those checking out bankruptcy this site has a fair bit of information:
http://fredappleton.com.au/faqs.html

 

[pilots]

Here are a few of my beliefs, It may not be what you expect. These views are not unique to me, it's probably just restating obvioius things.
I'll try and revist later as I'm heading out now and I really don't like typing from my Crackberry.

First of all you must define what you want.
Is it a new house, a certain amount of money, a better life by doing something or taking some type of action etc, developing a new product.

This is the most important step. You cannot reach a destination if you don't know where you are travelling to. Don't say things like a I want to have heaps of money. Be specific to the point and head for it.

Determine what you mean by wealth/riches.
Money does not equal riches.
Living in the biggest tin shed on the hill with views to the island doesn't always mean wealth. This is equally important.

Think back to some of the happiest times in your life, see that is a definition of riches. I bet you didn't think back to a time you checked you statement of position or bank balance.

Set a time frame, set milestones, pick a realistic end date to arrive.

How will you do it, Plan your strategy and implement it.
Be willing to fine tune your course.

Surround yourself with people or have access to people who are much smarter than you.

Listen more than you talk, never be afraid to ask questions.

Remember it's all about the journey, enjoy it.

During the take-off roll, be prepared to abort before V1, when you Rotate you are committed to that course. If things go bad after that brace and prepare for impact. Always be have a seat near the exit, always have an exit strategy.

Be prepared to really make huge mistakes, take a breather pick up the pieces and start again

It's a boring & tiring life travelling around strapped in row 1A.

Avoid people that impede your progress,

Be firm but fair.

Stick with your decisions, if you are wrong, admit it, build a bridge and get over it. Move to the next task.

Always live with in your means.
Never buy any article, car, house, clothes, just to impress others.

You don't necesarily need to own something to have access to enjoy or use it. Many things are free or can be accessed in a "pay per use" manner.
It's still "yours" for that time.

Always "pay" yourself first, before paying others.

Never watch Today Tonight or A Current Affair nor any other mind numbing TV.

Google the name: Hyman Minsky. Read and consider his theories.

Never, Never, chase something just for dollars.

I'll elaborate more later....

But it's really all about, pre-planning, implementation, handling variation and steering things to a successful completion. No matter what the task is.

Managing your available time is critical. Time management is simple but has huge payoffs. I call it Time Management Leverage.

Having a JOB ( Just over Broke ) is a good thing, you don't need to own a business or corporation to be rich.

Never be greedy, we live in one of the richest, wealthiest places in the world, cherrish this land.

Top post, I would add, set your self a budget, and live with in it.

 

[daisy]

If your balance sheet has more debt than assets so all you will be left with is nowhere to live and a mountain of debt that you will have to try to service somehow then bankruptcy seems to be a very sensible and viable option. I guess it would be something you would discuss with your accountant.
Once again for the here and now it would mean that you could put all this behind you and start over with a clean slate.
Which would be a very attractive option to me personally if I was trying to deal with what some of the people caught up in this must be trying to deal with. The question over that would be if there was a successful class action in the years to come who got the money. I may be a pessimist but I'm dubious about the outcome of litigation so personally I'd choose bankruptacy now so I could just get some semblance of order and control back into my life and the hell with whatever happens further down the track regarding compensation or whatever. But it is a question that needs addressing.

 

[sqwark7600]

Agree. Go Sol, and for your detractors.

Did you know that in the human body there is a nerve that connects the eyeball to the anus?
It's called the Anal Optic Nerve, and it is responsible for giving people a sh***y outlook on life.
If you don't believe it, try to pull a hair from your bottom and see if it doesn't bring tears to your eyes.
:iagree:

 

[sqwark7600]

The question over that would be if there was a successful class action in the years to come who got the money.

That's one for the legal eagles but my understanding is that bankruptcy lasts for 3 years after which there is no obligation to pay out previous debts.
The other reservation is that in regard to the home the situation as I see it would have to be that it is mortgage stressed to the extent that there is absolutely no chance of retaining it.
What bankruptcy can do is calm the waters in what seems to be a perfect storm, no pun intended.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Agree. Go Sol, and for your detractors.

Did you know that in the human body there is a nerve that connects the eyeball to the anus?
It's called the Anal Optic Nerve, and it is responsible for giving people a sh***y outlook on life.
If you don't believe it, try to pull a hair from your bottom and see if it doesn't bring tears to your eyes.
:iagree:

Was this taken from the Storm 101 course for their Financial Planners to quote to their mug punters?

Another generation is born believing in fairies at the end of the garden.

We'll be posting on the next debacle in about 7 years.

too much waffle and too little substance does not for financial advice make.

gg

 

[Solly]

Solly I have posted this in full as this is exactly the type of smiling white teethed dung that got Storm investors into this mess in the first place.

Through the 80's and 90's a plethora of positive thinking crap came on the market from the US. 7 Habits and all that gumph.

Many simple folk followed the carpetbaggers with the smiles into all sorts of disasters of which Storm is the latest.

So forget all that positive nonsense. These people are in deep ****. Many will not recover.

Let us hope that others will learn from their mistakes.

By the way Solly does the attainment of all your wealth dispose with the necessities of excretion, as your hubris makes me think you are a little bit constipated, protesting your great wealth as if it is of your own making.


gg

gg

The main point of my post is the last sentence, especially the last two words.
"But then again I am a very wealthy rich person, I have the ability chose where I live, where I travel, with whom I associate............ get it?"I am talking about the relativeness of wealth and riches.

Thank you for reposting it in full, please look closely at some of the the words and language used.

"I am a very wealthy rich person. I have the ability chose where I live, where I travel, with whom I associate. I live in places that some would say are mansions, I travel in quality cars, enjoy flying in jets and travelling in boats & ships. I do all that is possible to ensure I possess great health and I am very very happy. I can look out over the sea or look towards the beautiful hinterland while having a fine wine or a good cold beer. I enjoy the company of a close circle of people."

Is this any different to you?

Your opinion of my post that "this is exactly the type of smiling white teethed dung that got Storm investors into this mess in the first place"
I cannot see the comparison, but I respect your view.

"Through the 80's and 90's a plethora of positive thinking crap came on the market from the US. 7 Habits and all that gumph."
I totally agree, "positive thinking" produces exactly that, just "thinking" . Taking "positive actions" is the only thing that achieves a result.
Trust nobody, question, seek independent opinions, study and research things yourself.
Make your own decisions never be rushed, a great "deal" will be there today, tomorrow and the next day.
Take responsibility for your own actions and outcomes. Admit if you got it wrong, retrieve and move on.

BTW, here's a list of some authors that are not on my recommended reading list.
Anything by Robert Kiyosaki including anything he has co-authored, Dolf De Roos, Robert G. Allen, John Burley,
Rhonda Byrnes (The Secret), Stephen R. Covey.

On my recommended reading list include these authors;
Buckminster “Bucky” Fuller, Hyman Minsky, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens,
Phil McGraw (Life Strategies).


"Many simple folk followed the carpetbaggers with the smiles into all sorts of disasters of which Storm is the latest.
So forget all that positive nonsense. These people are in deep ****. Many will not recover
Let us hope that others will learn from their mistakes"
Agreed, many will not recover......but many will recover but just in a different forms, new circumstances, different expectations, different lifestyles but recovery nevertheless.
But sometimes the deeper the sh** , the higher the recovery will be.....

Solly

 

[Julia]

Meanwhile practical solution #1: Pass all financial PDS by a panel of 14 year olds to test their readability.



:iamwithst

This is a very valid point. How many of us have skipped through lengthy PDS documents occasionally?
We're subjected to more and more jargon in just about every aspect of life these days. Sorry, probably going off at a tangent here.

I'd still really like to know from any Storm client what sort of risk profiling was done, what sort of clearly documented investment strategy was given following the risk profiling, and how much explanation was made of the downside of leverage. And how clear was the risk before the client signed?

 

[Julia]

I am a very wealthy rich person. I have the ability chose where I live, where I travel, with whom I associate. I live in places that some would say are mansions, I travel in quality cars, enjoy flying in jets and travelling in boats & ships. I do all that is possible to ensure I possess great health and I am very very happy. I can look out over the sea or look towards the beautiful hinterland while having a fine wine or a good cold beer. I enjoy the company of a close circle of people.

Thank you for your response, Solly. I'm glad for you that your life is so good. Undoubtedly my belief that really wealthy people don't boast about their wealth is old fashioned and quite silly.

Beats me I've got no idea and I don't care.
My life is great why would I be concerned about a bunch of people who got themselves into this mess, of high risk geared investing with a bunch of financials wizards from the Fiscal Capital of the modern world - Townsville Qld.

These people made active choices to invest in this strategy, they signed on the bottom line, the result is all of their own making.

Yep, nothing like a little salt in the wound, is there!

Nobody on this planet owes me a living, gives me my happiness or my outlook, except me.

Yes, totally agree. This is the philosophy we all should own.
Sadly, there is an increasing culture of blaming anyone other than ourselves for what happens in our lives.

My understanding is that many will lose their houses, businesses, farms, money, retirement savings.
My advice to these is to ADAPT, modify your life behaviours, change your expectations, seek a remedy, then seek a remedy, then seek a remedy, then seek a remedy..........regardless of age, health issues, I can't tolerate excuses.

There's nothing wrong with this advice at all, and I agree. But, Solly, what we all do is offer advice from our own points of view, born out of our own capacity, some of which is genetic and some environmentally obtained.

Some of us have a greater ability to pick ourselves up and start again than others. I've done it, you've done it apparently, and so have many others.
But I would also acknowledge that there are people who, for whatever reason, are shocked and bewildered by what has happened and don't have the first clue about what practical options might exist. I've seen people physically and psychologically 'paralysed' by shock/grief/fear of the future.

This is why I've asked anyone who may have had experience in this area to come up with some practical suggestions.

Surinyami and Daisy have at least tried.

Maybe you don't need millions in the bank to live a full meaningful life....

Indeed. But you do need enough to live on.

But then again I am a very wealthy rich person, I have the ability chose where I live, where I travel, with whom I associate............ get it?

I think we have a reasonable understanding of you, Solly, thank you, so yes, I guess we 'get it'.

 

[Waveglider]

Hi all

This blog has been incredibly interesting reading

I investigated investing with Storm but as soon as their advisor stated that if it all goes bad "Just sue us" we were out of there.

Our friends (who i tried to warn of the dangers) were heavily leveraged by Storm and have now gone from a considerable portfolio to now having a large debt on their home. (at least they still have a home)

Storm created a bull**** image of the life you could have with the outrageously priced holidays to US/Canada and recently Africa and Egypt where you stayed at the best Hotels etc etc.

I believe it became intoxicating to ordinary hard working people who where trying to create a better life for themselves.

This crash has squashed the idea of investing in the stock market with borrowed money for me (well for now anyway)

I look forward to reading further posts and learning from you all

Best wishes to all

 

[Smiley]

Some good points and do not mind the positive thinkers as there are worse things than going broke, as so eloquently detailed in the post about losing a child.
We were told by Storm advisers that there was some risk but this message was hardly given credence in the face to face meetings and it was more a matter of downplaying any risk with adamant statements of, "It is safe." After all even in the recent newspaper articles the founders claimed it was a conservative approach.
When one asked questions - for example after reading the 105+ page statement of advice (which is very hard to follow and has no personal details besides how much you are borrowing) more graphs were displayed on a large screen and the adviser just raved on about how the market goes up and down, etc.
We knew there was risk with the market dropping but with promises that they would get us out before we lost a significant amount we thought we were covered. Obviously they did not and now there is a huge mortgage and a few thousand still in the market.
We were sold lies and yes blocked from getting out. My adviser actually stated that there was no way the market was going to get to 1,000 points higher than it is now. Every Storm client I know had huge margin loans; everyone was sold down and many still owing hundreds of thousands.
Everyone who was stormified that I know was in terrible shape when the market hit 4,500 (and now it is hovering at 3,500).
We will never retire unless our pittance in the market builds up enough to pay off the mortgage. We take responsibility for being taken in by slick sales techniques and while their was religioug zeal - called a clut by an ex-ten year employee there, never heard anything spiritual nor Christian from Cassimatis.
:evilburn::evilburn:

 

[daisy]

The continuing thread throughout all of these posts is how people were blocked from trying to get out when they started to become uneasy about the situation. I'm not a lawyer but I would imagine that this would be one of the greatest strengths of any class action and should be documented.

 

[bunyip]

Hi a newbie here. We were with storm for about four years we are realtively youthful and invested proceeds from our first house sale after the 1st big boom in brissy. They did give us the big sell for sure but as has been mentioned here in a boom it is a reasonable risk. Well we got out in late july with a small profit of about forty thousand after four years well down from november the previous year. But when at our previous advice session i asked about the likliehood of a margin call they said the market would have to drop 35% to get a margin call something they said had happened only 2 or 3 times (cant remember exactly). Well it has since dropped well below that. However they did inform us of the risk and i would religiously check my portfolios every day via the challenger website. Once the volatility of the sharemarket got to around 3or 4% with it going up and down this much on a given day i decided that was too much risk and volatility for me and we got out. They didnt like it and dragged their feet about it to which due to the volatility cost us 13000. We are now back in property (owner occupier). My point however is that being in the shaer market is a risk and even if you are in a managed fund if you dont keep an eye on it youreslf than you are a fool. People can always make their own decisions. We were intending to be long term so accepted the risk but the daily volatility just made me too nervous, would love to say that i saw it coming but it was just about our individula situation.

Well done for keeping an eye on your portfolio and getting out when you did, despite Storm's attempts to dissuade you. If others had done the same thing they wouldn't have been stormified. What's interesting is that you did in fact get out, whereas some are saying that Storm blocked them from getting out.

I accept that youth and inexperience were the main factors in some of the younger Storm clients getting clobbered.
But the older investors who were burnt should have known better than to take such risks. They have short memories if they've forgotten the crash of 1987 and the havoc it wrought on the finances of so many people. They were naive if they ignored the possibility of it happening again.

I've attached a chart showing both the 87 crash and the current crash.
You'll see that the 87 crash was much more severe than this one in terms of how fast the market collapsed.
The current crash has taken a full year to drag the market from its peak to current levels. Anyone who kept a close eye on their portfolio and on the general market would surely have had plenty of time to get out before they were slaughtered, just as tonzo did.

 

[sqwark7600]

This is what I have:

Step #1 Calculate your personal balance sheet.
Step #2 If Step #1 results in a negative outcome you can't live with; bankruptcy is your remaining legal option.
Step #3 If Step #1 results in an outcome you can live with liquidate everything that you can live without.
Step #4 During the preceding Steps make your holistic health your number one priority.
Step #5 Once stabilised go after those that caused this with a vengeance. You have many covenants and powerful regulations crying out to lend a hand. Do it with a consolidated class action.
Step #6 Communicate with your fellow Storm victims.

At each step seek advice as there are a multitude of organizations and agencies waiting to provide gratis help.

Can anyone add or insert a step or two. If you are a specialist please contribute and give some guidance or direction on your Step specialisation.

:drink:

 

[Solly]

Thank you for your response, Solly. I'm glad for you that your life is so good. Undoubtedly my belief that really wealthy people don't boast about their wealth is old fashioned and quite silly.

Yep, nothing like a little salt in the wound, is there!

Yes, totally agree. This is the philosophy we all should own.
Sadly, there is an increasing culture of blaming anyone other than ourselves for what happens in our lives.

There's nothing wrong with this advice at all, and I agree. But, Solly, what we all do is offer advice from our own points of view, born out of our own capacity, some of which is genetic and some environmentally obtained.

Some of us have a greater ability to pick ourselves up and start again than others. I've done it, you've done it apparently, and so have many others.
But I would also acknowledge that there are people who, for whatever reason, are shocked and bewildered by what has happened and don't have the first clue about what practical options might exist. I've seen people physically and psychologically 'paralysed' by shock/grief/fear of the future.

This is why I've asked anyone who may have had experience in this area to come up with some practical suggestions.

Surinyami and Daisy have at least tried.

Indeed. But you do need enough to live on.

I think we have a reasonable understanding of you, Solly, thank you, so yes, I guess we 'get it'.

Julia

Re-read what I said,
I am a very wealthy rich person. I have the ability chose where I live, where I travel, with whom I associate. I live in places that some would say are mansions, I travel in quality cars, enjoy flying in jets and travelling in boats & ships. I do all that is possible to ensure I possess great health and I am very very happy. I can look out over the sea or look towards the beautiful hinterland while having a fine wine or a good cold beer. I enjoy the company of a close circle of people.

Is this any different to you, You have shelter, probably a home that most people in the world could only ever dream of living in. You are literate, connected the internet, probably tech savvy and educated. You are free to make your own choices in your life, your daily actions are not scrutinised, your neighborhood is not subject to external threats. Your country is strong and secure. You probably drive in roadworthy cars that have air bags, ABS, multiple safety features. Have you ever flown, travelled in a boat or ship. Have you ever been to the beach or mountains...... Then you too are a very wealthy and rich person.


I'm not rubbing salt into any wounds, I'm calling it as it is. Life's tough, it isn't fair. People signed on the line, it's up to them to get out of the mess and to do whatever it takes to improve their position. If some one holds out a hand for assistance I always offer help, guidance and direction. Like others in the past did for me. I don't believe in karma, fortune tellers, tarot card readers, I only deal in facts. Cause and effect, action and reaction and as many other laws of physics that are applicable.

To all those affected by this event, start now, don't delay, don't go under, fight till your life is better, don't ever entertain the alternative for one second. The gloves are off now.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Julia

Re-read what I said,

I'm not rubbing salt into any wounds, I'm calling it as it is. Life's tough, it isn't fair. People signed on the line, it's up to them to get out of the mess and to do whatever it takes to improve their position. If some one holds out a hand for assistance I always offer help, guidance and direction. Like others in the past did for me. I don't believe in karma, fortune tellers, tarot card readers, I only deal in facts. Cause and effect, action and reaction and as many other laws of physics that are applicable.

To all those affected by this event, start now, don't delay, don't go under, fight till your life is better, don't ever entertain the alternative for one second. The gloves are off now.

And into the arms of another Financial Planner peddling the same old line, cheap american positivism, you betcha, YOU can get out of this folx.

These unfortunate people need to

Sue those with the biggest pockets.
Crucify ASIC
Crucify the Financial Planners Association which from the Fin Review had a Director of Storm on the Review Panel until a few weeks ago.
Get your State and Federal members of Parliament to do the job they were elected to do.

And Never, Ever, Trust your money to a Financial Planner.

gg

 

[eieio]

Does anyone have any idea who to contact now storm is really dead in the water. We have only lost fees, a lot of tho, in the last month. What is the best way to learn about investing without an fp. We are beginners.

It's easy. You read books on investing...lots of them. You do your research on the Web. You attend stock exchange seminars if you are a masochist. In other words, do your own research and control your own destiny!