Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Storm Financial Group

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Garpal Gumnut said:
Carey mate,

That is one good submission.

Good on you.

gg
Click to expand...

gg, could to see you are back from the top end I hope the show went well, I heard that there was a nasty incident while trying to pen a frisky love sick Black Angus, it's good to see it didn't involve you :D

Anyway, regarding the AECgroup submission I found the statistics quoted in Table 1.1. quite amazing:

"Proportion of clients that did not receive a Storm Financial / Colonial PDS 41.4%

Proportion of clients that did not read the PDS or have it explained 59.3%."
 
What amazed me when we first met the Hardship team from which bank - she said she didn't know anything about the collapse of Storm Financial (she was from Sydney - did she live under a rock). Also couldn't explain why our loan had to be approve from Mackay instead of the local branch which I had been with since I was born?? Couldn't really explain why the house had a valuation done without being seen yet when we bought an investment property we had a chap here who went through the place like the public trust does when you die... I never wanted to go guarantor for a loan (in between jobs) and had my father's words ringing in my ears don't go guarantor for a loan for family or friends, she said you would have paid the loan out when we sold the place from under you...(the financial planner said it didn't matter, the banks just approve loans - she is also the same person who told us in July - you won't lose your house), she is also the same person that continually included the the unit in the list of assets, when we continually told her it had sold a couple of years ago and to strike it from records - and why did she bother going on 60 minutes - what to shed a couple of tears)...
anyway, still no word from the solicitors, guess it will cost us to have this put in words to the which bank... (the handlers change every 5 minutes and its obvious the right hand doesn't talk to the left hand), they are probably fishing as well... bit of *rse covering on their end, quite picky on what we tell them. Well least I' doing a variety of jobs I didn't know I could ever do and be nice to check out chicks whether the supermarkets or small stores.
jmac
Ironhalo said:
Jmac keep up the pressure mate, and remember that anything you do with CBA doesn't pleclude you from ASIC saying that the bank has to wipe your loan if they find it shouldn't have been granted in the first place.

Best of luck mate, chin up.
Click to expand...
 
Mark Weir, co-chair of Storm Investors' Consumer Action Group, supported anything "to find out just where the blame lies in the whole mess".

I thought Mark Weir and Noel O'Brien and others at the helm of SICAG had already made up their minds where the blame lies....haven't they been claiming that all the fault is with the banks!
 
Another nine submissions of interest to the

Inquiry into Financial Products and Services in Australia;

http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/corporations_ctte/fps/submissions/sub162.pdf

http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/corporations_ctte/fps/submissions/sub163.pdf

http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/corporations_ctte/fps/submissions/sub164.pdf

http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/corporations_ctte/fps/submissions/sub165.pdf

http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/corporations_ctte/fps/submissions/sub166.pdf

http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/corporations_ctte/fps/submissions/sub167.pdf

http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/corporations_ctte/fps/submissions/sub168.pdf

http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/corporations_ctte/fps/submissions/sub171.pdf

http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/corporations_ctte/fps/submissions/sub175.pdf
 
bunyip said:
Mark Weir, co-chair of Storm Investors' Consumer Action Group, supported anything "to find out just where the blame lies in the whole mess".

I thought Mark Weir and Noel O'Brien and others at the helm of SICAG had already made up their minds where the blame lies....haven't they been claiming that all the fault is with the banks!
Click to expand...

Bunyip, that was a "given" they had been beating the drum right from the start , turning out the same old mantra as the Cassimatis website, in the pursuit of justice from the evil banks.

How bad would it look to be part of an investigation group , only to find you were part of the problem and not part of the solution !!!!!
 
It is great news about the public examination in the Federal Court and with a date of september should help provide some great insight into the whole debacle - the good thing is that u cant lie in court unless you want to risk perjury and judges tend to take a dim view of that!

So in a few weeks EC and Company will be taking the stand and finally answering some tough questions - lets hope they start with the advisers first so the scene can be set for EC. The reality is that EC and his band of "merry men" havent said anything of value or even apologised to their victims since this whole thing began. Well guys and girls your time of reckoning is just beginning!

Will be interesting also to see what role the other "independent" directors had in the last year.

The old BOQ has been in the press a bit of late and I think that in the next day or so it is going to get a whole lot worse.......

GG thankyou for your kind words on our submission. We wanted it to be a concise submission that provided some alternate views on how the financial sector should be reformed in light of recent events. We did not want our submission to be a storm bashing exercise - we think the Federal Court and ASIC are the more appropriate arenas for that.
 
http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committ...ons/sub173.pdf

In regards to your response Luke (Vogel), why is it that in the 51 pages of (admittedly well crafted) dialogue, is Storm not mentioned once as being in any way, shape or form partly responsible for ANYTHING that transpired?

Aren't you the 'Media' go-to man for SICAG? Sorry to beat a dead horse, but by proxy, SICAG's perceived focus on 'the banks at all cost and Manny was just a victim' again comes into question by association based on the sentiments in your submission.

I know you guys are trying to do what's best (and I agree wholeheartedly with your comments on the CBA treating Storm customers with absolute derision after everything went pear shaped), but surely you could acknowledge that the SICAG dinner-pals at Belmont are at least PARTIALLY responsible for some of this mess?

Why were Storm 'Financial Planners' (and I use that term loosely) happy to send retirees up to the hilt, knowing full well that each step-investment brought them one shove closer to the precipice? According to your submission, you worked for Jelich-Jones as well? So in other words, you have realised that at some small level you may be complicit in all of this?

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I find it increasingly amusing/interesting that ex-Storm employees and associates of the Storm umbrella are now beating their chests seeking blood from the big bad banks on 'behalf' of the very clients they drew their salaries, 'hot V8 laps' and world trips from.

Some rather concerning points from your submission:
'Storm Directors apparently did agree to cease contact with their clients until after the Christmas period in good faith. (So technically, ASIC didn’t gag Storm, but they did seek to!). It is clear that ASIC engaged in a very heavy handed treatment of Storm Financial on the basis of an ASSERTION by the CBA. This assertion has never to the best of my knowledge been backed up by any form of evidence.'

So, the b.s. we got fed from the Storm offices about 'we've been forced by ASIC to keep our mouths shut' was a lie? You mean that during the time that I was paying Storm to monitor my investment, they decided in 'good faith' to not return anyone's call, despite knowing people were in margin call? Well that is illuminating. Talk about a 12 month ban ruining the business is laughable noting Storm effectively decided to stop answering phones and/or taking any action on behalf of clients in the worst financial incident since the 80's. That spells 'our company is effed' right there.

'Were clients told of the LVR increases and or given an opportunity to opt out if they were uncomfortable with the decision? The answer is no.'

Yeah you know why they weren't told? See above.

'How is it defensible that the Australian Government can and did rush to the aid of “The Four Pillars” during the later part of last year by guaranteeing funds and borrowings to ensure a fundamentally strong banking system when at the same time those very same banks failed dismally to accord the same latitude to the same “mum and dad” Australians who guaranteed the banks security!'

The same could be asked of the Cassimatis's as to why their indemnity insurance was non-existant and why they decided to award themselves a few million dollars just before the company tanked.

'Having subsequently viewed my loan application document (most of which was blacked out under the guise of being “Commercially sensitive evaluative information” - National Privacy Principle 6.2) I found that our income levels had been artificially inflated and expenses understated (2 dependent children had not been recorded).'

Ask the friendly Storm adviser who submitted your forms to the CBA. Let me guess, he/she told you 'don't worry about that bit about expenses/income, we have all that information on file, we'll fill that out?'

Sorry mate, but the banks aren't solely responsible for this mess.
 
carey ramm said:
It is great news about the public examination in the Federal Court and with a date of september should help provide some great insight into the whole debacle - the good thing is that u cant lie in court unless you want to risk perjury and judges tend to take a dim view of that!

So in a few weeks EC and Company will be taking the stand and finally answering some tough questions - lets hope they start with the advisers first so the scene can be set for EC. The reality is that EC and his band of "merry men" havent said anything of value or even apologised to their victims since this whole thing began. Well guys and girls your time of reckoning is just beginning!

Will be interesting also to see what role the other "independent" directors had in the last year.

The old BOQ has been in the press a bit of late and I think that in the next day or so it is going to get a whole lot worse.......

GG thankyou for your kind words on our submission. We wanted it to be a concise submission that provided some alternate views on how the financial sector should be reformed in light of recent events. We did not want our submission to be a storm bashing exercise - we think the Federal Court and ASIC are the more appropriate arenas for that.
Click to expand...


I'm confused about where committee members of SICAG stand on Manny Cassimatis. A mate in townsville tells me they have been "deciding on the best submissions for the inquiry". Best for whom ?

Enclosed is a snippet from a Luke Vogel late last year in the Courier Mail. Is this the same Luke Vogel who was an adviser for Storm?

If there is one thing that news publishers should not tollerate is sloppy reporting. The report is full of holes and inaccuracies. The reported should have asked alot more questions in order to report the story correctly.

1. All clients are required to attend education workshops before they proceed. 2. A comprehensive "fact find" is completed before a preliminary financial plan is produced. 3. A financial plan is developed with full consideration of the clients circumstances. 4. Every client is required to initial EVERY page of every document produced along the way in order to ensure that they are fully aware of everything they are doing. 5. At every stage in the plan preparation process clients are given the opportunity to ask questions and seek clarification on points they may not understand. 6. Once everything is clear only then will implementation of the plan proceed. In short EVERY client knew exactly what they were getting into and only have themselves to blame if they now feel somehow cheated. Fortunately, the vast majority of their clients have strong faith in Emmanuel & Julie to navigate these turbulent times on their behalf. Incidentally, the 2005 Christmas party you refered to in the article was also inaccurately reported.

Also for the record, I am a client of Storm Financial. My investments have probably dropped nearly $500K in value since November last year. I do not work for Storm Financial.
Posted by: Luke Vogel of 7:36pm December 14, 2008
Click to expand...

And then this from January of this year in Quest Community News

SCARBOROUGH:
THE human side of the Storm Financial tragedy unfolded last week as almost 300 investors turned out at the Golden Ox, Margate, to form a united group ready to fight a long battle for compensation.
-------------------------------------
More reports in the Townsville Bulletin
-------------------------------------
Speaking after the meeting, Luke Vogel, a former Storm Financial adviser, and his wife Niki, of Scarborough, said they had lost $400,000 since the Commonwealth Bank (CBA) sold their shares which were held in Storm-endorsed sharemarket funds.
At the height of the market, their shares were worth $1.5 million.
Now they are paying interest on a $400,000 debt secured against their house and no longer own shares.
Mr Vogel said he was keen to join the Storm Investors Consumer Action Group (SICAG) and fight for compensation.
``This is not going to be an easy fight but it’s one we have to have,’’ he said.
Storm has been criticised for encouraging clients to take out high-risk margin loans to buy shares, which have now fallen in value.
A meeting of Storm creditors last week was told that the collapsed company owed $78 million, including $27 million to the Commonwealth Bank.
Robert Hutson, from receiver KordaMentha, revealed that Storm founders Emmanuel and Julie Cassimatis were being investigated for taking a $2 million dividend on December 15, just days after CBA started calling in margin loans from Storm clients.
SICAG spokesman Mark Weir has vowed to take the fight for compensation to other towns around the state containing Storm offices.
For information on SICAG, phone Mark Weir on 5478 8054 or 0409 270 333.
Click to expand...

Is this the same Luke Vogel?

Ironhalo said:
http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committ...ons/sub173.pdf

In regards to your response Luke (Vogel), why is it that in the 51 pages of (admittedly well crafted) dialogue, is Storm not mentioned once as being in any way, shape or form partly responsible for ANYTHING that transpired?

Aren't you the 'Media' go-to man for SICAG? Sorry to beat a dead horse, but by proxy, SICAG's perceived focus on 'the banks at all cost and Manny was just a victim' again comes into question by association based on the sentiments in your submission.

I know you guys are trying to do what's best (and I agree wholeheartedly with your comments on the CBA treating Storm customers with absolute derision after everything went pear shaped), but surely you could acknowledge that the SICAG dinner-pals at Belmont are at least PARTIALLY responsible for some of this mess?

Why were Storm 'Financial Planners' (and I use that term loosely) happy to send retirees up to the hilt, knowing full well that each step-investment brought them one shove closer to the precipice? According to your submission, you worked for Jelich-Jones as well? So in other words, you have realised that at some small level you may be complicit in all of this?

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I find it increasingly amusing/interesting that ex-Storm employees and associates of the Storm umbrella are now beating their chests seeking blood from the big bad banks on 'behalf' of the very clients they drew their salaries, 'hot V8 laps' and world trips from.

Some rather concerning points from your submission:
'Storm Directors apparently did agree to cease contact with their clients until after the Christmas period in good faith. (So technically, ASIC didn’t gag Storm, but they did seek to!). It is clear that ASIC engaged in a very heavy handed treatment of Storm Financial on the basis of an ASSERTION by the CBA. This assertion has never to the best of my knowledge been backed up by any form of evidence.'

So, the b.s. we got fed from the Storm offices about 'we've been forced by ASIC to keep our mouths shut' was a lie? You mean that during the time that I was paying Storm to monitor my investment, they decided in 'good faith' to not return anyone's call, despite knowing people were in margin call? Well that is illuminating. Talk about a 12 month ban ruining the business is laughable noting Storm effectively decided to stop answering phones and/or taking any action on behalf of clients in the worst financial incident since the 80's. That spells 'our company is effed' right there.

'Were clients told of the LVR increases and or given an opportunity to opt out if they were uncomfortable with the decision? The answer is no.'

Yeah you know why they weren't told? See above.

'How is it defensible that the Australian Government can and did rush to the aid of “The Four Pillars” during the later part of last year by guaranteeing funds and borrowings to ensure a fundamentally strong banking system when at the same time those very same banks failed dismally to accord the same latitude to the same “mum and dad” Australians who guaranteed the banks security!'

The same could be asked of the Cassimatis's as to why their indemnity insurance was non-existant and why they decided to award themselves a few million dollars just before the company tanked.

'Having subsequently viewed my loan application document (most of which was blacked out under the guise of being “Commercially sensitive evaluative information” - National Privacy Principle 6.2) I found that our income levels had been artificially inflated and expenses understated (2 dependent children had not been recorded).'

Ask the friendly Storm adviser who submitted your forms to the CBA. Let me guess, he/she told you 'don't worry about that bit about expenses/income, we have all that information on file, we'll fill that out?'

Sorry mate, but the banks aren't solely responsible for this mess.
Click to expand...

I fnd it bizarre that former Storm Advisers and their relations seem to be leading the SICAG submissions after their inept knowledge and advice in financial matters led so many unsuspecting investors to ruination.

gg
 
Nice detective work GG.

Like Ron Jelich, these Redcliffe based Storm employees somehow now suddenly feel outraged that their clients (whom had they been doing their job properly wouldn't have let them get themselves into this level of risk) have been dealt the hand of 'injustice' from the banks.

I have some admiration for Ron Jelich (albeit small) in that he pretty much repented his sins in his submission stating 'I should have spoken up....I will carry this to my grave', but it doesn't negate the fact that these people DIDN'T speak up, and ultimately were happy to earn the big bucks and enjoy cavorting in the Cassmatis's court; yet when it went pear-shaped, they are now the 'voice of reason' to the banks. The very institutions that although responsible for shouldering some of the blame, were in a symbiotic, profit-making relationship with Storm, and vicariously, their employees.. And don't tell me 'we never saw any of that!', my advisor loved telling me about Manny shouting most of the employees on the world trip in 08....Mediterranean wasn't it?

Verily, the hypocrisy offends me. I will hand it to SICAG, your moral support for victims has been commendable, and I am sure you have talked people back from the edge. But these are desperate people who should never have been pushed to the edge to begin with.

51 page submissions from the media head of SICAG that completely fail to address the glaring failures of Storm to show any sense of responsibility, professionalism or competance in Oct-Dec last year leave me shaking my head in disbelief.

My mother, brother and sister (all Redcliffe locals), who were loyal clients of Jelich-Jones before they sold out refuse to attend any SICAG meetings for this very hypocrisy.

It's harsh, sure, but it's reality. Or at least a perception....and we all know that old saying...
 
Garpal Gumnut said:
Is this the same Luke Vogel?

gg
Click to expand...

Garpal Gumnut said:
I do not work for Storm Financial.
Posted by: Luke Vogel of 7:36pm December 14, 2008

gg
Click to expand...

GG, I'd say he's got you on a technicality. It only says that he does not work for Storm (as in, at that time). It does not say if he ever worked for them.

Pretty sure that all the adviser's were let go before 14/12/2008, so technically ...
 
The advisers knew they were playing the game.
Greed kept them in the game and they willingly suckered the wood ducks for more. Greed probably blinded them to the very real consequences of a game that is played and lost.

ASIC commenced it's investigation into Storm on December 12th.
In other words thats when the jig was up, sure Manny and Julie did the old switcheroo with the 5 million on December 15th but were quickly busted.

If Manny got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, where would that leave the ones on the lower rungs of the ladder, you know, the anonymous people aka the advisers, who willingly and happily got the ducks into this mess by encouraging and abetting them to get more funds from the banks? I dont think the ducks were all greedy but maybe they were clueless.

Not looking good at all with ASIC on the trail - the best bet as an adviser I would think, is to bluff it out and take up the "evil banks" mantra on behalf of those they knowingly suckered.
After all, it is now the banks asking for the money they lent out, not Storm, they already got theirs upfront.
Pretty clever formula really: "you borrow money, give me a cut and we will have a flutter with the rest. Oh, yes you do have to repay the bank, but we will worry about that later after you get rich."

Hopefully in September we will get to the crux of the matter instead of the Bluff Boys hanging on for as long as they possibly can with obscure submissions to the inquiry and dodgy websites.
 

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