Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Social Engineering

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Tink said:
I would rather look at the people that built this country, not the ones that are trying to destroy it.
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Do you think none of them were Gay?

Yet again Think, you are focussing on the spreading of your religion at the expense of the children who have suffered abuse (strange you refuse to comment on that), and at the expense people who are born of different sexualities.

In your perfect world Gays would just stay in the closet, people would stay in unhappy marriages and never divorce, there would be insufficient sex education but that would be covered up by babies being forcible adopted out by teenage mums.

Your "good ole days", had a lot of human suffering hidden in behind closed doors.
 
If you want to eliminate our traditions/public holidays out of our public schools, then make them private.

As I mentioned, the ABC ran shows on pedophiles, are you going to mention them too?
And why we should be understanding them.

There are males and females - we have two sexes.

Teaching children lies and pumping them with medication is not what schools should be doing.

Get back to the basics of maths, reading, writing.

As I said, information nights were set up for us out of school hours with children and parents.
They should do the same in the public system.
 
sptrawler said:
Removing children from their parents, is seen as wrong, sometimes it is the only way.IMO

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/welfare-used-on-sex-with-kids-ng-b88552545z

The cashless society, is on its way and not before time.
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Thats an interesting perspective. So can we assume that in a cashless society "someone" can monitor all peoples purchases to make such they arn't used for anti social purposes ? Is that the intention to build a better, purer society?
So would that include excessive gambling ? Spending money on escorts when you are married, partnered or committed ? Doing any illegal drugs ? Buying your kids/your partner/yourself the wrong stuff ??

Will we extend this cashless society to all pension receivers ? Old Age? Disability ? Single parents ? Will they all have to justify the last dollar they spend ? Who to ?
 
basilio said:
Thats an interesting perspective. So can we assume that in a cashless society "someone" can monitor all peoples purchases to make such they arn't used for anti social purposes ? Is that the intention to build a better, purer society?
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It's a bit contradictory from a Liberal government that believes in 'individual responsibility', but the fact is that a lot of welfare recipients smoke, drink, gamble or inject their welfare payments and don't look after their kids if they have them.

Of course people will say that cashless welfare stigmatises welfare recipients, but no government measures are all completely pure.
 
Tink said:
If you want to eliminate our traditions/public holidays out of our public schools, then make them private.

.
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I don't want to eliminate any of those things, I just want to avoid teaching religions as if they were fact. I am happy for children to be taught about your religion as part of a myths and legends type program, just like we learned about the greek legends etc in school.

There are males and females - we have two sexes.
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Agreed, but you "gender" doesn't necessarily match your biological "Sex"

and there and there are multiple sexualities.

Sex is whats between your legs.
Gender is what you go to bed as.
Sexuality is about who you go to bed with.

Get back to the basics of maths, reading, writing.
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So no religion, cool. but yeah there is plenty of other things kids need, science, history, physical education and health (which includes sexual education)
 
So no religion, cool. but yeah there is plenty of other things kids need, science, history, physical education and health (which includes sexual education)
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I think the concern is that some of the "other things" are interfering with teaching of the skills that children need to actually get a job in the real world.
 
SirRumpole said:
"other things" are interfering with teaching of the skills that children need to actually get a job in the real world.
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Really? I think being a fit and healthy, mentally well adjusted person with social skills is one of the most important things when applying for a job, not to mention that avoiding teenage pregnancy and STD's gives people a huge leg up when it comes to higher education.

So yeah I think there is a real place in schools for health education including sex education, I mean it's not like to much of the work week is actually used on these topics.
 
SirRumpole said:
Even if they can't read, write or add up. :D
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Do you really think it's a choice? ofcourse you can do both.

Any way, who says the only way to learn reading and writing is in dedicated "reading and writing classes", reading and writing skills can be built up through all sorts of study.

Eg, reading course material in a health class is still improving reading skills.
 
This conversation about "getting back to basics" in education, "reading, 'riting and 'rithetric" and "being able to get a job" as somehow the pride and centerpoint of education is so, so lame. The fact that many people seem to espouse these concepts in such a simplistic way is probably a poor reflection on our teaching and understanding what "an education" could/should be.

Bit of reality. Education has always had a basic social engineering component in its make up. The education system wherever and whatever it comprised was about transmitting intended social mores to a new generation. Ancient Rome, Medieval England, Victorian England, Soviet Russia, 20th Century Australia everywhere the concept of what we want our next generation to look like was a bedrock of education.

It is never value neutral. In that sense the question to ask is "What social mores do we want our children to grow up with?" Will they be co-operative or fiercely individual and competitive ? Will they respect all people and cultures or believe there is "one true faith" and anyone else is very much second best. Will they enjoy learning about new things and the world for its own sake or will they see learning as focused mostly on very specific outcomes ie getting a job ?

Basic skills. I'll sum up a teaching philosphy I used. " Learning how to ask a question. Learning where to look for the answers. Learning how to smell the BS". Of course one can learn how to read. But how do we learn whether what you read is worthwhile, honest and useful? We can learn how to write as well. But again "How are we going to use this skill?" Making Advertising ads for houses? Constructing creative lagal frameworks for totally dodgy busineses? Making up lies to advance evil causes? Ditto Maths. And this doesn't even touch the fact that Science, Languages, History, Geography, Health Education, Creative Arts and a score of other subjects offer a richness to life that is essential if we are developing a whole new person.

Back to the topic. Once upon a time gays were deranged, criminal or depraved. Just look at the laws that existed barely one generation ago. Hetrosexual sex was circumscribed with a very particular ideology, largely religious. The concept that people could have sexual relations outside a male/female sanctified wedding was very bolshy.
Do we still think these precepts are "right" ? How do we want our children to behave towards friends and themselves if they don't fit these structures? What type of "social engineering" do we want to see in schools ?
 
SirRumpole said:
Wake-up call: Australian students fall behind Kazakhstan in maths and science rankings

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...ths-and-science-rankings-20161129-gszvt1.html
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I have three points on this topic.

1, Just because it has "Stan" on the end of its name, doesn't mean its a backward low grade country that we should be ashamed to be beaten by. it's actually a progressive nation with mandatory schooling, making lots of investments into science and technology.

2, Its quite a small country, with a spread out population, one of the most disperse population in the world, I wouldn't be surprised if the study focussed only on students from its capital, ignoring those in rural tribal areas, this probably skews the results higher.

3, Developing nations in general generally have more attentive students, e.g. the Average Aussie or American child sees school as a chore, the developing nations see it as a new privilege. So as other nations catch up in wealth terms, it will be harder for western nations to stay at the top of the lists.

 
basilio said:
What type of "social engineering" do we want to see in schools
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I can't recall any 'social engineering' when I was at school, although we did 'social studies', which I can't remember much of anyway.

Lets face it , the world is moving fast technology wise and it takes enough time for kids to keep up with that instead of indoctrinating them to be your version of model citizens whatever that might be.

Parents have a responsibility to guide their children's social development, schools can't do everything. I agree that critical reading and comprehension is vital to sort out the fake news from the real thing.
 
SirRumpole said:
Apologies to Khazkhstan, but we are falling behind others as well, eg 18th to 28 th in year 4 maths and similar results in other STEM areas.
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A better measure would be how we rate against ourselves, e.g., are getting worse, are are we just progressing more slowly than others.

But either way, as I said, having a whole host of nations that have a population hungry for improvement will make it harder to stay near the top, unless our young get equally hungry.

Its quite a small country, with a spread out population
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when I said this I meant small population, the land mass is huge.
 

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