Should there be more CCTV in public?

[prawn_86]

Knowing you will be caught is a great deterrent to commiting a crime.

Prawn, how do you propose to address the use of private CCTV as used in this case to pin a murderer.

I dont know what % of crimes are actually caught in general, but it hasn't been a deterrent so far, as crime catching methods have improved, there is still plenty of crime.

I think the use of private CCTV is fine, as long as it is just that, private. If someone wants to film their private property they should be able to, and then if it has use in a case like this and they want to hand it over then it's ok.

What i am opposed to is a centralised government video database controlled by the government. I am amazed that some of the members here would be completly willing to give up their entire personal freedoms with blind faith to the government. As someone else has said, we could completely eliminate crime if we gave up all our freedoms.

Suppose they start monitoring every phone and internet and then in 5 years time make it illegal to make calls outside of work hours, and implement an after dark curfew? People assume that the populous would rise up against draconian measures, but i dont think they would, most would just accept it as they accept the current nanny state erosion of freedoms; "governments know best"

 

[MrBurns]

Another angle to this -

I have always been of the opinion that scum such as this should be thorougly examined to find out WHY

Psychological tests ongoing until they learn something, take the top off his head and probe that twised brain if it helps.

They have the subject matter.........use it.

Was in North Fitzroy last night and was inclined to take flowers to the shop where she was filmed like many others but time got away, this crime has affected a lot of people very deeply and I think/hope something comes out of it to protect the public from animals let loose among us at the order of our soft lenient justice system......

The police knew this guy was a ticking time bomb, he had the record, it was just a matter of time.

Indefinite jail terms for those who have proven they aren't worthy to live among us, not a few years for rape or child molestation but indefinite incarceration until someone can PROVE they wont re offend...

 

[Calliope]

.
What i am opposed to is a centralised government video database controlled by the government.

Surveillance systems installed by individual local councils are nothing to do with centralised government.

I am amazed that some of the members here would be completly willing to give up their entire personal freedoms with blind faith to the government.

I am amazed that you have inferred the someone actually said this.

As someone else has said, we could completely eliminate crime if we gave up all our freedoms.

Then "someone else" is a fool. There is still plenty of crime in countries with totalitarian governments.

 

[prawn_86]

I am amazed that you have inferred the someone actually said this.

Then "someone else" is a fool. There is still plenty of crime in countries with totalitarian governments.

Read through this thread, there are members here who are willing to have their phone and internet monitored. So i am assuiming they would also be happy to have a GPS chip implanted.

There is no government in the World as totalitarian as would be needed, but it could be done. If we each had a personal camera/drone following us around, and every peice of communication was monitored i think that would get rid of 99.9% of crime, or if/when crime did occur it would be caught within a couple hours

 

[McLovin]

Pretty white girl gets murdered and all of a sudden we need more laws, more surveillance, more big brother. Never mind the fact that crime has been, and continues to, fall. I hope this poor woman's murder doesn't become the justification on why we need a whole raft of new privacy breaching laws. How long until "Jill's law" is tabled in the various parliaments?

 

[Tink]

I dont understand the problem with CCTVs -- this case just proved how quickly this guy was taken off the streets. Hard evidence is what is needed. If you arent doing anything wrong, who cares.
This guy knew exactly what he was doing, first thing he did was pull out her SIM card from her mobile.
Makes you wonder what else is out there.

 

[DB008]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-02/rayney-trial-told-no-ccctv-footage-available/4291140

 

[doctorj]

Personally, I like my privacy but have no problem with CCTV. London is the most CCTV’d place in the world and much of it is controlled by the government. As far as I can tell, they use the footage responsibly and really only dig through it when there is cause. They also keep it very secure – I’m not aware of a single case where gossip magazines have shown pictures of celebrities taken from CCTV.

If these conditions can be met and secured for the future, I would say CCTV is a very good thing and does help to dissuade would be criminals.

 

[Happy]

Suburban railway stations are dangerous places late at night. I surprised that you think they do not need CCTV surveillance.

With all respect, but all they will be just a record of something terrible, almost useless for attacked person/s, kind of low budget material for U-tube or Live-leaks.

Different story if every time violent offender is eliminated, if every time there is something caught on tape and then offender is caught and eliminated, it would be that particular individual last offence.

 

[Tink]

Well I am glad Ted Baillieu has taken the initiative to put out more cameras.
They have the technology -- use it.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion...otect-the-public/story-e6frfhqo-1226483754278

 

[awg]

Different story if every time violent offender is eliminated, if every time there is something caught on tape and then offender is caught and eliminated, it would be that particular individual last offence.

I think thats the nub of it.

Pretending to be a detective in the case of murder of the ABC lady;

They would have most likely identified the alleged perpetrator, either by policeman saying "i know him" from the tape, or internal data matching (man is a convicted serial rapist, on parole, living locally)..or both

At that time, a massive gathering of footage from all manner of CCTV, but ESPECIALLY Road & Traffic cameras, would have been done...more than likely his vehicle would have been pinpointed at various times and locations.

Also mobile phone location data (unless he had it switched off)

Now ask his story...then show him the evidence...he is psychologically broken at that moment and confesses.

This psychopath will be off the street forever, without technology this is doubtful, there are a few other similar cases (cant remember his name he murdered 2 ladies in Sydney for financial gain)

I dont like it and dont want it but surveilance will make life much harder for psychopaths, rapists and terrorists of all sorts, and its here to stay, like it or not, govts love it.

Dont know whether anyone has mentioned it in this thread, and I think it was in a movie too, however, I am fairly sure that high end surveilance has been developed sufficiently that personal facial recognition from CCTV is completely feasible

 

[MrBurns]

The more the merrier, you cant live in a fractured society like in the larger cities withour it, if you dont like it move elsewhere....

 

[Tink]

Thats an excellent summary. awg, and how I see it too.
Making it hard for them is what we want to do.

With social media now, cases will be like this, I think they have a meeting this Friday on how they are going to tackle this in the future with the courts.
People are more involved now, and you cant stop people talking and finding things on the internet.

Having the community involved is a positive in my eyes.

 

[DB008]

BBC UK and relevant for this thread l think.

High-def CCTV cameras risk backlash, warns UK watchdog

High-definition closed-circuit television (CCTV) risks sparking a public backlash, according to the UK government's surveillance commissioner.

Andrew Rennison told the Independent newspaper that "the technology has overtaken our ability to regulate it".

Surveillance cams now offer up to 29 megapixels, surpassing many cameras used by professional photographers.

Manufacturer's figures suggest there will be 129,299 HD CCTV cameras in the UK by the end of 2012.

The HDCCTV Alliance has predicted that number would rise to over 3.7 million by 2016.

A shift from the use of analogue to digital equipment is also helping drive the quality of the images the cameras capture.

Defenders of the technology note that it helps discourage crime and has helped law enforcement officers identify offenders.

An earlier report by the Integrated CCTV news site said that evidence gathered by surveillance cameras had helped secure some of the convictions that followed 2011's London riots.

Link - http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19812385

 

[Tink]

You cant hide with a CCTV -- now he wants the death penalty.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/what-bayley-did-in-jills-final-hours-20130313-2fzvo.html

 

[Tink]

Teachers say they are fed up with problem parents sticking up for the bad behaviour of their kids.

This was on the radio yesterday regarding teachers calling for more CCTV in schools.

MORE than half of Victorian teachers want extra CCTV-style cameras in schools amid escalating reports of physical violence, verbal threats and vandalism, new figures suggest.
As the school year begins, a statewide survey shows three-quarters of teachers have experienced some form of violence from students - a spike from 55 per cent in just four years

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...security-cameras/story-fni0fit3-1226811591965

 

[Chris45]

Teachers say they are fed up with problem parents sticking up for the bad behaviour of their kids.

Yes Tink, and we wonder why our educational achievements are slipping. Teachers are expected to accept being sworn at and spat on, are banned from physically restraining violent students, and even banned from "shouting angrily" at them.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ation-guidelines/story-fni0cx12-1226810306299

I guess that means when a group of bullies are in the process of kicking another kid's head in, the teacher is not allowed to shout, "STOP THAT IMMEDIATELY!!!", and instead must say sweetly, "Johnny, please don't stomp on Billy's head like that, you might hurt him. Oh now look what you've done ... Billy is bleeding from his eyes, nose and ears ... don't you feel any compassion for his suffering?"

No wonder parents who care for their kids are doing everything possible to get them into private schools!