Should Australia become a Republic?

2020hindsight · 19 April 2008

Whiskers said:
Speak for yourself. I drew a dud there.

but is she hot etc? lol

correction
I meant to say "but do you love her"

PS and likewise ""do you (or rather Nyden) love Aus enough to want her to stand AUTONYMOUS? and proud amongst independent nations?

Garpal Gumnut · 19 April 2008

wayneL said:
If yes, the question becomes - "what sort of republic"?

This was the stumbling block last time. The model presented was rejected, not because people wanted to retain the constitutional monarchy, but because the model proposed was bollox, concentrating power in the wrong hands.

So a better question is - What sort of republic should Australia become?

The only republic that will get up is an elected persidential model, as the Irish have. I'd vote for that.

If a mob of dills like our federal reps have the right to choose the president I'll be voting against it again.

gg

Whiskers · 19 April 2008

2020hindsight said:
but is she hot etc? lol

correction
I meant to say "but do you love her"

Well... I refuse to answer on the grounds that I might incriminate myself...

except to say she was hyper-AUTONYMOUS... greener grass etc and didn't do anyone proud, least of all the values of our country... and especially the Queen.

I'm with Garpal Gumnut. Unless we have a voter elected president, with real power, we will be no better off.

And include the proposition by Julian Burnside I think it was, that lying by politicans be made a criminal offense.

Nyden · 19 April 2008

2020hindsight said:
but is she hot etc? lol

correction
I meant to say "but do you love her"

PS and likewise ""do you (or rather Nyden) love Aus enough to want her to stand AUTONYMOUS? and proud amongst independent nations?

Australia isn't an entity. Australia is a piece of land, where I (gratefully) reside. I love the land I live in, enough to wishfully maintain the gratitude towards the nation that (newly) discovered it; by keeping historical ties intact. We're already independent, we're just keeping those ties.

As previously stated though; one should not develop too much love, or pride. Make no mistake, were Australia to ever get to a point where I no longer agreed with the philosophies / values of the land ... I would up, & leave :

In this modern era of globalisation, & ease of transport ... a country is nothing more than a place to live, & call home.

2020hindsight · 19 April 2008

Nyden said:
In this modern era of globalisation, & ease of transport ... a country is nothing more than a place to live, & call home.

****!!!
straight away we differ - !!
I consider my vote more meaningful than yours nyden

Love the One You're With

Nyden · 19 April 2008

2020hindsight said:
****!!!
straight away we differ - !!
I consider my vote more meaningful than yours nyden

Alright; so - in 30 years time, if the philosophies of Australia have changed to the point where you no longer recognize "her"; to the point where it's all about working 7 days a week, minimal rates of home ownership, minimal employee rights (starting to sound a lot like China ... hint, hint ... would you still consider "her" the love of your life? I know I wouldn't.

Australia, & any other country; is nothing more than land. It is the people, it is the government, that make a home. People / generations are dynamic, not static, & philosophies have, & always will change.

You only need to look at any country of Europe to see how they've changed over the generations.

As previously mentioned, I do love the current situation that is Australia, & I don't want any element of it to change (aside from health, education, etc

wayneL · 19 April 2008

Garpal Gumnut said:
The only republic that will get up is an elected persidential model, as the Irish have. I'd vote for that.

If a mob of dills like our federal reps have the right to choose the president I'll be voting against it again.

gg

I think that would be a pretty widespread view as well. I would vote against the previously proposed model as well.

2020hindsight said:
PS and likewise ""do you (or rather Nyden) love Aus enough to want her to stand AUTONYMOUS? and proud amongst independent nations?

LOL.

ummmm... Oz was pretty autonomous last time I checked.

2020hindsight said:
****!!!
straight away we differ - !!
I consider my vote more meaningful than yours nyden

Ludicrous! You are not a true democrat then. That is such an obnoxiously nationalistic and cognitively biased comment...unbelievable.

wayneL · 19 April 2008

Nyden said:
Alright; so - in 30 years time, if the philosophies of Australia have changed to the point where you no longer recognize "her"; to the point where it's all about working 7 days a week, minimal rates of home ownership, minimal employee rights (starting to sound a lot like China ... hint, hint ... would you still consider "her" the love of your life? I know I wouldn't.

Australia, & any other country; is nothing more than land. It is the people, it is the government, that make a home. People / generations are dynamic, not static, & philosophies have, & always will change.

Totally agree. I asked this question on this forum before: What exactly is a nation?

The government?
The people?
The land?
An imaginary line on a map?

What is Australia?

2020hindsight · 19 April 2008

wayneL said:
Ludicrous! You are not a true democrat then. That is such an obnoxiously nationalistic and cognitively biased comment...unbelievable.

wayne
ludicrous indeed
In my books , the true Aussie diehards count more than the passing itinerant opportunists

PS I happen to agree with both Malcolm Fraser and Gough Whitlam.

PS Is Canada a republic? - you'd know

Nyden · 19 April 2008

wayneL said:
Ludicrous! You are not a true democrat then. That is such an obnoxiously nationalistic and cognitively biased comment...unbelievable.

Yes, his comments only enforce what I said before about "blind patriotism" (too much pride / love). Overwrites even the basic foundations of the original values held by the country. I don't think we're free anymore, the very basis of democracy was wiped out years ago ... sure, you can burn a flag, but you can bet that A Current Affair would smear your face all over the nation, with some with malicious-sounding music in the background (not that I would ever do such a thing). Not to mention being labelled Un-Australian!

Nyden · 19 April 2008

2020hindsight said:
wayne
ludicrous indeed
In my books , the true Aussie diehards count more than the passing itinerant opportunists

PS I happen to agree with both Malcolm Fraser and Gough Whitlam.

PS Is Canada a republic? - you'd know

They have the Queen on their coins, so probably not.

2020hindsight · 19 April 2008

Nyden said:
Yes, his comments only enforce what I said before about "blind patriotism" (too much pride / love). Overwrites even the basic foundations of the original values held by the country. I don't think we're free anymore, the very basis of democracy was wiped out years ago ... sure, you can burn a flag, but you can bet that A Current Affair would smear your face all over the nation with malicious-sounding music in the background (not that I would ever do such a thing).

OK
1. I said that I wouldn't lose any sleep over this ., however,

2. you were the one who proposed a bumpless transition to living somewhere other than Aus.

3. So if/when YOU hypothetically go to some other country because it suits you better ( and although I've spent a few years as an expatriate myself, I've still called Australia home etc) I will continue to vote for a republic.
PS you could say that that 's how my vote will in the end, mean more than yours !! - perseverence

Maybe you will have done the right thing and given up your citizenship by then

PS Or will you , whilst living in some hypothetical overseas country, continue to vote in an Aussie referendum?
ahh
why would you??, after all you said that

nyden said:
"a country is nothing more than a place to live, & call home"

wayneL · 19 April 2008

2020hindsight said:
wayne
ludicrous indeed
In my books , the true Aussie diehards count more than the passing itinerant opportunists

PS I happen to agree with both Malcolm Fraser and Gough Whitlam.

PS Is Canada a republic? - you'd know

In a democracy, you are dead wrong, just totally wrong. Passing opportunist itinerants must become citizens to vote yes. By definition, they have made as much a commitment to Oz as any native born... certainly ceremoniously more so. Many "die-hard Aussies" are also passing opportunist itinerants in other parts of the world. Would you deny them the vote also.

Totally ludicrous.

Canada is a constitutional monarchy like Oz, and quite happy to be so... apart from the francophones who are agin anything Anglo.

wayneL · 19 April 2008

2020hindsight said:
OK
1. I said that I wouldn't lose any sleep over this ., however,

2. you were the one who proposed a bumpless transition to living somewhere other than Aus.

3. So if/when YOU hypothetically go to some other country because it suits you better ( and although I've spent a few years as an expatriate myself, I've still called Australia home etc) I will continue to vote for a republic.

Maybe you will have done the right thing and given up your citizenship by then

So you are a passing itinerant opportunist. Your vote should count less than those who have always stayed in Oz, by your cognitively biased logic.

Nyden · 19 April 2008

2020hindsight said:
OK

Maybe you will have done the right thing and given up your citizenship by then

So, you are suggesting I should leave the country simply because I love (have I ever once said I didn't love it?) it for its current values, as opposed to worshipping it as the eternal, & undisputed "greatest nation on earth"? Funny, so many countries have that claim.

For one who loves Australia so much, you seem to not particularly enjoy freedom of speech / equal rights, strange that, isn't it?

Smurf1976 · 19 April 2008

A nice way to divert attention from anything that's actually important.

Forget it. Oil's at $117, we've got a credit crunch, climate change, drought and all the rest. Flags and republics just don't rate as an issue compared to any of those.

Nyden · 19 April 2008

2020hindsight said:
PS Or will you , whilst living in some hypothetical oversaes country, continue to vote in an Aussie referendum?
ahh
why would you??, after all you said that

Perhaps we have different priorities, but having a home (not a house), & being able to call a place my home, is my number 1. So please, stop acting as if I labelled what I have here as unimportant.

2020hindsight · 19 April 2008

wayneL said:
So you are a passing itinerant opportunist. Your vote should count less than those who have always stayed in Oz, by your cognitively biased logic.

hey
Nyden can happily vote on whether New Zealand ( or whether he hypothetically goes to ) becomes a republic

2020hindsight · 19 April 2008

Nyden said:
Perhaps we have different priorities, but having a home (not a house), & being able to call a place my home, is my number 1. So please, stop acting as if I labelled what I have here as unimportant.

nyden, ok
if you want to reword that , the by all means do so.

wayneL · 19 April 2008

2020hindsight said:
Maybe you will have done the right thing and given up your citizenship by then

Did you, when you were an expat?

I'm thinking of two words here, one begins with H, the other with J.

Should Australia become a Republic?