School BBQs - Halal or not?

DocK · 11 March 2013

Whilst we're all entitled to our own views, I thought I might just correct the assumption that seems to be accepted that the "minority group" has demanded or even requested any change in the current proceedings - they haven't. It simply isn't the case that they're trying to dictate diet or impose their culture on the rest of the school. At the school in question the uniform protocols are very strict and do not allow for the wearing of any head scarves or covering. The school has no religious affiliations but follows the Christian traditions of Easter and Christmas, and the prayer at a few formal occasions is based on a Christian God. There has never been any question of the culture of the school changing in order to adapt to muslim or other minority practices. A member of the P&F committee (who is not a member of any minority group) was simply proposing a method of simplifying our current snag/bbq cooking procedures, given the increased numbers of halal eaters at the school - being proactive I guess. There has not been any complaint made or criticism levelled by any of the muslim or jewish families at the school - to the best of my knowledge all of the non-Christian students and their families have absolutely no desire to impose their belief systems on the rest of us, being well aware of the school culture before enrolling their children. It's certainly not a case of a minority group seeking to enforce their culture or dietary choices on the rest of the school - more like a member of the P&F who hasn't fully thought through a suggestion that she thought would just make cooking BBQs a bit simpler for us. I suspected the wider school community would take issue with her suggestion, as I did for my own reasons, and the response on this forum has been enough to convince me to try to convince the P&F committee to nix the idea before we're accused of wanting to bring in Sharia law

sails · 11 March 2013

DocK said:
Whilst we're all entitled to our own views, I thought I might just correct the assumption that seems to be accepted that the "minority group" has demanded or even requested any change in the current proceedings - they haven't. It simply isn't the case that they're trying to dictate diet or impose their culture on the rest of the school. At the school in question the uniform protocols are very strict and do not allow for the wearing of any head scarves or covering. The school has no religious affiliations but follows the Christian traditions of Easter and Christmas, and the prayer at a few formal occasions is based on a Christian God. There has never been any question of the culture of the school changing in order to adapt to muslim or other minority practices. A member of the P&F committee (who is not a member of any minority group) was simply proposing a method of simplifying our current snag/bbq cooking procedures, given the increased numbers of halal eaters at the school - being proactive I guess. There has not been any complaint made or criticism levelled by any of the muslim or jewish families at the school - to the best of my knowledge all of the non-Christian students and their families have absolutely no desire to impose their belief systems on the rest of us, being well aware of the school culture before enrolling their children. It's certainly not a case of a minority group seeking to enforce their culture or dietary choices on the rest of the school - more like a member of the P&F who hasn't fully thought through a suggestion that she thought would just make cooking BBQs a bit simpler for us. I suspected the wider school community would take issue with her suggestion, as I did for my own reasons, and the response on this forum has been enough to convince me to try to convince the P&F committee to nix the idea before we're accused of wanting to bring in Sharia law

DocK - my apologies as it seems I misunderstood as I thought there was pressure being applied. That's the problem with being late to a thread and skimming through the posts fairly quickly...

However, what I posted, I wrote out of my own concern. I think Aussies are becoming increasingly concerned with calls for Sharia law in this country and for the future of our kids and grandkids here. I help care extensively for one little 6 year old granddaughter and, when I read of so many boat arrivals together with the statements of the muslim intention to take over Australia, I do worry about her future and whether she will be able to enjoy the same freedom which I have enjoyed in this wonderful country.

That said, I can see where you are coming from that it would simply make things easier from a catering perspective!

pixel · 12 March 2013

DocK said:
Whilst we're all entitled to our own views, I thought I might just correct the assumption that seems to be accepted that the "minority group" has demanded or even requested any change in the current proceedings - they haven't. It simply isn't the case that they're trying to dictate diet or impose their culture on the rest of the school. At the school in question the uniform protocols are very strict and do not allow for the wearing of any head scarves or covering. The school has no religious affiliations but follows the Christian traditions of Easter and Christmas, and the prayer at a few formal occasions is based on a Christian God. There has never been any question of the culture of the school changing in order to adapt to muslim or other minority practices. A member of the P&F committee (who is not a member of any minority group) was simply proposing a method of simplifying our current snag/bbq cooking procedures, given the increased numbers of halal eaters at the school - being proactive I guess. There has not been any complaint made or criticism levelled by any of the muslim or jewish families at the school - to the best of my knowledge all of the non-Christian students and their families have absolutely no desire to impose their belief systems on the rest of us, being well aware of the school culture before enrolling their children. It's certainly not a case of a minority group seeking to enforce their culture or dietary choices on the rest of the school - more like a member of the P&F who hasn't fully thought through a suggestion that she thought would just make cooking BBQs a bit simpler for us. I suspected the wider school community would take issue with her suggestion, as I did for my own reasons, and the response on this forum has been enough to convince me to try to convince the P&F committee to nix the idea before we're accused of wanting to bring in Sharia law

Thanks for clarifying that, DocK

To an extent, I had already assumed that the question might have been raised by some "concerned" non-Muslims, scared of being not PC enough. Hence also my reference to my acquaintances, who have by and large overcome food taboos.
If it's a Private School, you would expect the parents to be generally better-educated and taking a more rational approach. You might tell the lady, who raised the question in the first place, "You worry too much. It's a non-issue!".

PS: Feel free to pass on to her what I said about the very notion:

I find it extremely offensive and disgusting that any group of Australians would even consider dumping their local butcher, who has supported them for decades, out of fear that one or two newbies may not be willing to integrate and accept the culture of their new home. Private school or not, the first thing that should be taught is integration, not a new apartheid.

bunyip · 12 March 2013

DocK said:
Whilst we're all entitled to our own views, I thought I might just correct the assumption that seems to be accepted that the "minority group" has demanded or even requested any change in the current proceedings - they haven't.
A member of the P&F committee (who is not a member of any minority group) was simply proposing a method of simplifying our current snag/bbq cooking procedures, given the increased numbers of halal eaters at the school - being proactive I guess.

I was fully aware that the suggestion to use halal meat came from one woman, not from the Jewish or Muslim parents.
I would suggest that like many do gooders who truly beleive they’re trying to help, she simply didn’t think things through very clearly. If she had, she would have realised that at a barbeque in an Australian school, there should be no restrictions on the basis of religious or cultural beleifs as to what meat can or can’t be used.
Normally there’s a variety of meat at barbies......beef, sausages, sometimes some pork or lamb chops, maybe some chicken kebabs, with all meat slaughtered by conventional Australian methods.
Nobody should be excluded from offering or eating any of this meat because of the religious or cultural beliefs of anyone else.

If the Muslims or Jews or anyone else, for whatever reason, choose not to eat any of this meat, then that’s up to them.

Calliope · 12 March 2013

DocK said:
It's certainly not a case of a minority group seeking to enforce their culture or dietary choices on the rest of the school - more like a member of the P&F who hasn't fully thought through a suggestion that she thought would just make cooking BBQs a bit simpler for us. I suspected the wider school community would take issue with her suggestion, as I did for my own reasons, and the response on this forum has been enough to convince me to try to convince the P&F committee to nix the idea before we're accused of wanting to bring in Sharia law

Why didn't you just take it up with her? Blind Freddy could have told you what the response on this forum would be.

bellenuit · 12 March 2013

Calliope said:
Why didn't you just take it up with her? Blind Freddy could have told you what the response on this forum would be.

Perhaps she just needs to be made aware of what the Halal slaughter method entails. I only had a vague idea until I started reading this thread.

Ruby · 12 March 2013

DocK said:
A member of the P&F committee (who is not a member of any minority group) was simply proposing a method of simplifying our current snag/bbq cooking procedures, given the increased numbers of halal eaters at the school - being proactive I guess.

If that is the case, then the woman concerned was naive, ignorant, or spoke without giving any thought to the matter. Whatever her reasons for doing so, she was still suggesting that everyone submit to the dictates of a foreign culture, which to many, is abhorrrent. That is not being proactive. Why did she not suggest that everyone just eat the meat that has always been provided? That also simplifies matters. Muslims choose to eat halal meat. They are not forced to. Why should we change our customs to suit them? That is what this woman was suggesting.

Miss Hale · 5 April 2013

DocK, are you able to let us know what the eventual decision of the P&F committe on this matter?

On a related issue. It seems Qantas how now banned pork from its flights to and from Europe as a result of its deal with Emirates.

QANTAS has removed pork from its in-flight menu on flights to and from Europe as a result of its partnership with Middle Eastern airline Emirates.

No food containing pork or pork products will be served on those flights - which now has a stopover in Dubai - because it is strictly forbidden in Islam and is considered "unholy".

From the same article, it seems that some airlines are already serving meals prepared in the halal way. I wonder if they make passengers aware of this on the flights, or at the time of booking.

Virgin Australia does not serve pork on flights to and from Abu Dhabi and all meals that are prepared are halal accredited, with meat prepared in a way prescribed by Islamic law.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...to-respect-islam/story-e6freuy9-1226612841997

DocK · 5 April 2013

Miss Hale said:
DocK, are you able to let us know what the eventual decision of the P&F committe on this matter?

No decision has been made so far, to the best of my knowledge. I daresay the matter will be raised for discussion and a decision at the next P&F meeting now that the idea has been put forward. I shall voice my concerns and vote against it - I'm in favour of maintaining the present practice of cooking the small amount of halal meat that is required separately. I'll update this thread when and if the matter is raised again.

Julia · 5 April 2013

Miss Hale said:
On a related issue. It seems Qantas how now banned pork from its flights to and from Europe as a result of its deal with Emirates.

I just about choked on my breakfast when I heard that! They are also, in deference to Islam, excluding the use of any alcohol in their food preparation.
This is ridiculous imo. Muslims who don't want to eat pork will surely have some alternative. Why on earth is there all this sucking up to Muslims???

Miss Hale · 5 April 2013

Julia said:
I just about choked on my breakfast when I heard that! They are also, in deference to Islam, excluding the use of any alcohol in their food preparation.
This is ridiculous imo. Muslims who don't want to eat pork will surely have some alternative. Why on earth is there all this sucking up to Muslims???

I agree Julia. People who follow the Jewish faith also avoid pork and yet I don't recall anyone altering their menus to cater for Jews in the past. Will they be taking all meat off the menu on Good Friday to cater for the Catholics? Somehow I doubt it. Perhaps just remove meat altogether so as not to offend vegetarians

Miss Hale · 5 April 2013

DocK said:
No decision has been made so far, to the best of my knowledge. I daresay the matter will be raised for discussion and a decision at the next P&F meeting now that the idea has been put forward. I shall voice my concerns and vote against it - I'm in favour of maintaining the present practice of cooking the small amount of halal meat that is required separately. I'll update this thread when and if the matter is raised again.

Thanks for the update DocK, will be interested to hear the outcome

DB008 · 5 April 2013

Julia said:
I just about choked on my breakfast when I heard that! They are also, in deference to Islam, excluding the use of any alcohol in their food preparation.
This is ridiculous imo. Muslims who don't want to eat pork will surely have some alternative. Why on earth is there all this sucking up to Muslims???

Did you see my link to the Lego recall/self imposed ban I post in the 'Religion' thread yesterday?

The 'tolerant' are caving to the 'intolerant'. Work that out.

drsmith · 5 April 2013

My thoughts on this are very simple.

When in Rome, ........................

Sdajii · 6 April 2013

drsmith said:
My thoughts on this are very simple.

When in Rome, ........................

...convert Rome to an Islamic state.

(apparently)

AdamVW · 6 April 2013

bunyip said:
I was fully aware that the suggestion to use halal meat came from one woman, not from the Jewish or Muslim parents.
I would suggest that like many do gooders who truly beleive they’re trying to help, she simply didn’t think things through very clearly. If she had, she would have realised that at a barbeque in an Australian school, there should be no restrictions on the basis of religious or cultural beleifs as to what meat can or can’t be used.
Normally there’s a variety of meat at barbies......beef, sausages, sometimes some pork or lamb chops, maybe some chicken kebabs, with all meat slaughtered by conventional Australian methods.
Nobody should be excluded from offering or eating any of this meat because of the religious or cultural beliefs of anyone else.

If the Muslims or Jews or anyone else, for whatever reason, choose not to eat any of this meat, then that’s up to them.

That's right bunyp and muslims are not forbidden from eating non-halal meat (apart from pork) and even then, if they are not aware that a food (such as sausages) has pork in it then they are not committing an offence against the religion.

So, really there is no necessity to serve halal meat at schools, however, it is (in my experience) very good meat. Eg, we always eat Steggles chicken because it is great chicken and as it turns out, it is halal.

Julia · 6 April 2013

AdamVW said:
So, really there is no necessity to serve halal meat at schools, however, it is (in my experience) very good meat. Eg, we always eat Steggles chicken because it is great chicken and as it turns out, it is halal.

You're quite happy that the halal killing process is significantly cruel to the animal?

gordon2007 · 6 April 2013

I know this will sound rude, but I really don't care how any animal is killed. As long as it tastes nice and fills my belly is all that matters to me when it comes to food.

As a side note, I've consumed, dog, monkey and quite a few other animals I cant' even recall during my days
in asia.

But I respect other peoples opinions on what they will and will not eat for whatever reasons.

Julia said:
You're quite happy that the halal killing process is significantly cruel to the animal?

School BBQs - Halal or not?

DocK

sails

pixel

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Sdajii

Sdaji

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