School BBQs - Halal or not?

Sdajii · 6 March 2013

If I went to live in Iraq, sent my kids to the local school, and my kids said they didn't want to eat tortured animals and would only eat animals killed without torture and some whacko blessing them as they carried out the torture, I am sure they'd be told to f off back to Australia or go hungry.

It's a very very short sighted person who would not hear the alarm bells in this situation.

Calliope · 6 March 2013

DocK said:
I appreciate that there will be a lot of people who see no need for even a discussion of this issue. I think that every student should be catered for, if at all possible. Every parent pays the same fees (it's a private school), the school promotes inclusivity,

The Muslim and Jewish parents who pay their school fees obviously have an expectation that their needs will be catered for. After all the school promotes "inclusivity" (sic) not "exclusivity".

chops_a_must · 6 March 2013

Why not ask the butcher to see if he can provide halal meat?

bellenuit · 6 March 2013

chops_a_must said:
Why not ask the butcher to see if he can provide halal meat?

What if the butcher held the belief that animals slaughtered for human consumption should be killed as humanely as possible. Refusing to follow the halal method would mean he is being discriminated against. Discrimination can work both ways.

chops_a_must · 6 March 2013

bellenuit said:
What if the butcher held the belief that animals slaughtered for human consumption should be killed as humanely as possible. Refusing to follow the halal method would mean he is being discriminated against. Discrimination can work both ways.

Then maybe he should be a vegetarian butcher?

Macquack · 6 March 2013

bellenuit said:
What if the butcher held the belief that animals slaughtered for human consumption should be killed as humanely as possible. Refusing to follow the halal method would mean he is being discriminated against. Discrimination can work both ways.

Bellenuit, I think you are over complicating an already complicated scenario.

Consumers are allowed to discriminate in their purchases, the issue is discrimination at the school, not at the market place.

Gringotts Bank · 6 March 2013

chops_a_must said:
Then maybe he should be a vegetarian butcher?

Chops are an absolute must at any BBQ.

Gringotts Bank · 6 March 2013

Calliope said:
The Muslim and Jewish parents who pay their school fees obviously have an expectation that their needs will be catered for. After all the school promotes "inclusivity" (sic) not "exclusivity".

This a private school remember. Exclusivity is part of the school's charter. If kids from poor or bogan families were allowed to attend, the whole image would be ruined. That's the whole idea of a private education.

So_Cynical · 6 March 2013

DocK said:
I can see the logic behind the suggestion - the person who made it simply assumed that there'd be no difference in the final product as far as the majority of students would be concerned, but the minority that do have cultural requirements would also be catered for.

A minority gets to set the agenda? that just cant be good...i would boycott your BBQ's on principle.

Religion shouldn't be allowed to EVER set the agenda, dictate what does and doesn't happen...its offensive.

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McLovin said:
I know a few people who actually prefer the taste.

Halal Tastes different...your taking the piss right?

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Gringotts Bank said:
I'd buy the halal meat.

Then again.... the regular butchers might go out of business in the western suburbs.

Might go out of business? dude They're gone completely from some suburbs already, i don't have a genuine Aussie butcher within 5 km in any direction from where i live, hell even the Vietnamese bakers are moving on..i cant get hot bread on a Sunday morning any more.

Boggo · 6 March 2013

So_Cynical said:
Religion shouldn't be allowed to EVER set the agenda, dictate what does and doesn't happen...its offensive.

Religion, currently the greatest divisor in civilised society !

Calliope · 6 March 2013

Gringotts Bank said:
This a private school remember. Exclusivity is part of the school's charter. If kids from poor or bogan families were allowed to attend, the whole image would be ruined. That's the whole idea of a private education.

The "whole idea" of private education is choice. The "image" is that they turn out a better product than public schools. If "poor and bogan families" aspire to raising their children's choices then they have to work for it like everybody else.

You say "exclusivity is part of the school's charter". Do you have any basis for this ridiculous insinuation. I'm pretty sure DocK would disagree with you.

Julia · 6 March 2013

DocK said:
The replies so far make for interesting reading - and are more or less what I expected - no matter which way we go, someone is going to be either offended, not catered to or upset. I guess this is symptomatic of a multicultural society - there are always going to be differences with no "easy fix". I find myself being a bit of a fence-sitter. I think every student and family are entitled to their own dietary/cultural preferences and should have options made available for them at school functions, but I also completely understand the resentment that some feel when the status quo is thrown out in order to cater to the requirements of a minority.

You're pretty much answering your own question, DocK. The greater question is whether we should have as our priority catering to a minority, that minority coming to Australia largely because they find our way of life here preferable to that in their home country.

If I were to be a parent at your school BBQ, I would not eat halal meat purely because the cruelty of the killing process sickens me. So I would be discriminated against.

I also disagree with the idea that the longstanding butcher used by the school should be replaced without a qualm because he doesn't sell halal meat, as the vast majority of parents have been happy with his services for many years, and remain so.

Fully support you on this. Loyalty is becoming sadly outdated.

Sdajii said:
If I went to live in Iraq, sent my kids to the local school, and my kids said they didn't want to eat tortured animals and would only eat animals killed without torture and some whacko blessing them as they carried out the torture, I am sure they'd be told to f off back to Australia or go hungry.

It's a very very short sighted person who would not hear the alarm bells in this situation.

Exactly.

bellenuit said:
What if the butcher held the belief that animals slaughtered for human consumption should be killed as humanely as possible. Refusing to follow the halal method would mean he is being discriminated against. Discrimination can work both ways.

So_Cynical said:
A minority gets to set the agenda? that just cant be good...i would boycott your BBQ's on principle.

Religion shouldn't be allowed to EVER set the agenda, dictate what does and doesn't happen...its offensive.

+1 to both above posts.

Gringotts Bank · 6 March 2013

Calliope said:
The "whole idea" of private education is choice. The "image" is that they turn out a better product than public schools. If "poor and bogan families" aspire to raising their children's choices then they have to work for it like everybody else.

You say "exclusivity is part of the school's charter". Do you have any basis for this ridiculous insinuation. I'm pretty sure DocK would disagree with you.

Work for it? LOL. How long is the average person going to work to pay $30,000* a year from their after tax earnings? Say you have two kids...that's $60,000. So you have to be pulling well over $120,000 just to cover fees. Where do you get the money for the mortgage, food, services and bills?

Private schools are highly exclusive. They exclude based upon wealth and ability (in the case of scholarship).
That's fine, I don't have a problem with that. But let's be real.

*edit: year 12 fees.

McLovin · 6 March 2013

So_Cynical]Religion shouldn't be allowed to EVER set the agenda said:
Halal Tastes different...your taking the piss right?

Apparently not...

Do Halal products taste different from non-Halal products?

The process of making a product Halal will never adversely affect the taste or consumer satisfaction and can in fact improve it when properly handled, prepared, stored and delivered. For example, the Halal slaughter of animals is designed to cause the maximum amount of blood loss possible. Under refrigeration, this reduces the chance of food spoilage and is expected to enhance shelf life. For this reason, many consumers prefer the taste and appearance of Halal meat as opposed to other types. With other products, the difference may be subtle or even non-existent.

http://www.halal-australia.com.au/consumers/

The funny thing is, if the meat for the BBQ was already Halal, there'd be no problem.

Calliope · 6 March 2013

Gringotts Bank said:
Private schools are highly exclusive. They exclude based upon wealth and ability (in the case of scholarship).
That's fine, I don't have a problem with that. But let's be real.

So DocK belongs to the privileged wealthy upper-class. I don't think she would agree with that. You think like Swan, with a class war mentality. You obviously can't understand that some people scrimp and save to give their children a better start in life.

Surly · 7 March 2013

It is important to serve vegan halal kosher nut free gluten free lactose free foods to students

If this is not possible serve either nothing...or whatever you want

cheers
Surly

Tink · 7 March 2013

I think with all the allergies in children, something we didnt see alot of in our younger years, this has now added to the list.
You would hope in Australia its done in a humane way.

I suppose it depends on the number of children its catering for too, whether its worth having the two BBQs and if it works out economically in the long run.

Hospitals have had to run on this, schools will be the same.

Gringotts Bank · 7 March 2013

Tink said:
I think with all the allergies in children, something we didnt see alot of in our younger years, this has now added to the list.

Yes the number of kids with allergies is growing at an enormous rate. Right now it's still limited to the children of anxious, hyper-vigilant parents however (the more relaxed parents don't have children who develop allergies). But there's still a potential for it to become a full blown epidemic like RSI. Remember RSI? It came, it overwhelmed the workforce and was responsible for an enormous amount of disability and lost productivity ...then it just mysteriously disappeared. No one gets it now. Food allergies will be the same...they will disappear when parents start relaxing a bit.

The same dynamic is operating in Islam. If they weren't so anxious that God was going to punish them for eating the wrong food, they'd get along just fine.

bunyip · 7 March 2013

Sdajii said:
If I went to live in Iraq, sent my kids to the local school, and my kids said they didn't want to eat tortured animals and would only eat animals killed without torture and some whacko blessing them as they carried out the torture, I am sure they'd be told to f off back to Australia or go hungry.

It's a very very short sighted person who would not hear the alarm bells in this situation.

Too bloody right.
I’ve just about had a gutful of people who want to change the Australian culture. If they don’t like our culture and our ways and our values, then they should piss off to some other country that suits them better.
There’s nothing more Australian than the good old Aussie barbeque. To hell with the people who want to make changes to it or any other part of our culture, particularly when those changes are based on their stupid fanatical religions.

bunyip · 7 March 2013

Gringotts Bank said:
Work for it? LOL. How long is the average person going to work to pay $30,000* a year from their after tax earnings? Say you have two kids...that's $60,000. So you have to be pulling well over $120,000 just to cover fees. Where do you get the money for the mortgage, food, services and bills?

Private schools are highly exclusive. They exclude based upon wealth and ability (in the case of scholarship).
That's fine, I don't have a problem with that. But let's be real.

*edit: year 12 fees.

My wife and I sent our four kids to private school from grade 1 right through to grade 12. The most we paid out in school fees in any one year was around 33 grand. And I’m talking about a very high-achieving school here too - fourth highest academic standard in Queensland, 10 years in a row Australian athletic champions.
Our decision to give them a private school education was based primarily on what the school offered in term of academic standards and sporting and cultural standards and facilities. It had nothing to do with any desire for exclusivity.
There were all sorts of parents who sent their kids there – from professionals earing a few hundred grand a year, right down to struggling families where both parents worked in pretty ordinary jobs to earn well below 100 grand a year between them, so they could give their kids the best start in life.
Some parents we know took out loans just so they could give their kids the best possible education.
Private schools are not necessarily the exclusive domain of the rich.

School BBQs - Halal or not?

Sdajii

Sdaji

Calliope

chops_a_must

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bellenuit

chops_a_must

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Macquack

Gringotts Bank

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So_Cynical

The Contrarian Averager

Boggo

Calliope

Julia

In Memoriam

Gringotts Bank

McLovin

Calliope

Surly

Tink

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bunyip

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