School BBQs - Halal or not?

DocK · 6 March 2013

I'm interested in opinions on a potentially contentious issue. During a P&F meeting at my children's school, it was proposed that all sausages and meat products for future P&F BBQs at sporting events etc be purchased from a new halal supplier, rather than the local butcher who has supplied the school for many years. The basis for the proposal is that there are an increasing number of students who cannot eat either non-halal meat, or are kosher, or have various other requirements - and apparently halal food will cover all cultural requirements. The proposer made the point that there will be no difference in taste or presumably cost, so the non-halal students would be unaffected, but the students with cultural requirements would be catered for. A new BBQ or two will need to be purchased, but at present it is necessary for a relatively small amount of halal meat/vege burgers to be cooked in frypans at a separate location (you cannot cook halal food and non-halal on the same BBQ) so it will also be more convenient to be able to cook all food together. This makes perfect sense to me, but I have a couple of reservations:

Is it fair to the existing supplier to take our all of our business elsewhere simply because he is not a halal supplier, even though he's done an excellent job for many years?

Is there likely to be a backlash from the non-halal section of the school community? I personally have some reservations over the method of slaughter required for halal certification, and would prefer to have the option of halal or mainstream, but wonder whether running two bbqs alongside each other, one with halal meat and one not, will possibly lead to a division between the students that doesn't presently exist.

Have any forumites had a similar issue at school/sport/work etc?

prawn_86 · 6 March 2013

wow PC gone crazy. Whatever happened to the old days when you smashed a snag and a steack sanga off the barbie after a game of footy and not cared where it came from or how it was cooked?

Sad thing is im not even that old, and it wasnt even considered in my childhood or teen years.

Boggo · 6 March 2013

The term "FIFO" rings a bell here (and I don't mean Fly In Fly Out either)

DocK · 6 March 2013

I appreciate that there will be a lot of people who see no need for even a discussion of this issue. I think that every student should be catered for, if at all possible. Every parent pays the same fees (it's a private school), the school promotes inclusivity, and at present it is a relatively small inconvenience for the P&F volunteers to cook a separate amount of halal foods & vegetarian options. It does raise the question though about how far you go to cater for all requirements - should we also offer a gluten-free option, choice of white bread or brown etc etc.

I can see the logic behind the suggestion - the person who made it simply assumed that there'd be no difference in the final product as far as the majority of students would be concerned, but the minority that do have cultural requirements would also be catered for. It's also been an increasing minority over the last few years, so it's sensible to try to come up with a system that will cater for all. Going totally halal was seen as a simple solution to what is presently a minor problem. What wasn't considered by the proposer was the fact that some might actually object to the switch to halal products on grounds other than taste or price.

McLovin · 6 March 2013

I don't see the issue. So much meat is halal now anyway, I know a few people who actually prefer the taste. If it makes parents happy then go for the two BBQ's. I'll tell you what though, a bunch of hungry teenage boys won't care whether the meat is kosher, halal, Jesus, Hindu...

skc · 6 March 2013

There's no issue that I can see. Your requirement (i.e. need halal meat) has changed and your old supplier unfortunately can no longer cater for it. It has nothing to do with fairness.

As to the decision to change the meat... I also see nothing wrong. Some students can eat any meat, some students can eat only halal meat. The logical answer is right there... unless there's a substantial increase in cost.

Gringotts Bank · 6 March 2013

To have Halal meat would be offensive to the vegetarians. All sausages and burgers should contain vegetables only. See how that goes down with the PC crowd.

Seriously though, it's probably good to allow people to have their hangups (like religion and food allergies and so on) and not be made to feel like outsiders. Eventually they will get over it. I'd buy the halal meat.

Then again.... the regular butchers might go out of business in the western suburbs. Maybe stick with the regular guy. Oh hang on you said private school, so that rules out the western suburbs. Yeh go with the halal. But then the whole school is catering to just a few individuals...that doesn't seem right. Yeh stick with the regular butcher.

But wait... what if I only eat bananas? Will I be catered for? Maybe BYO.

Sdajii · 6 March 2013

Political correctness is out of control. I'm actually very surprised that political correctness hasn't yet vilified halal meat in the west. Many people (myself included) consider the halal method of killing to be very inhumane. Rather than a quick, instant, painless kill, the animal is sliced with a blade and bled to death.

I suppose pandering to peoples' religious stupidity which calls for animal cruelty is more important than preventing animal cruelty.

Interestingly, the Koran states that if no halal meat is available it's okay to eat non halal meat, so they should just be tolerant and eat what the others are eating.

I have no problem with people having what they want, but I do have a problem with one group preventing another from doing what they want to do. If everything is halal it will mean you can't ever cook pork on those barbecues. If someone turns up with regular sausages from the supermarket, too bad, you miss out, you can't cook them. If I turned up with some lamb chops or chicken wings, too bad, I can't cook them.

If one group wants to do their own thing, no worries, that's fine, do your own thing, bring your own barbecue and your own meat, eat whatever you like, but don't put restrictions on others. Even if it's a very trivial matter in this case, the precedent it sets is a very dangerous one, it's a small step in a very wrong direction, and paths the way for more steps in that same direction.

Gringotts Bank · 6 March 2013

Sdajii said:
Political correctness is out of control. I'm actually very surprised that political correctness hasn't yet vilified halal meat in the west. Many people (myself included) consider the halal method of killing to be very inhumane. Rather than a quick, instant, painless kill, the animal is sliced with a blade and bled to death.

I suppose pandering to peoples' religious stupidity which calls for animal cruelty is more important than preventing animal cruelty.

Interestingly, the Koran states that if no halal meat is available it's okay to eat non halal meat, so they should just be tolerant and eat what the others are eating.

I have no problem with people having what they want, but I do have a problem with one group preventing another from doing what they want to do. If everything is halal it will mean you can't ever cook pork on those barbecues. If someone turns up with regular sausages from the supermarket, too bad, you miss out, you can't cook them. If I turned up with some lamb chops or chicken wings, too bad, I can't cook them.

If one group wants to do their own thing, no worries, that's fine, do your own thing, bring your own barbecue and your own meat, eat whatever you like, but don't put restrictions on others. Even if it's a very trivial matter in this case, the precedent it sets is a very dangerous one, it's a small step in a very wrong direction, and paths the way for more steps in that same direction.

Sounds good, but then it creates huge boundaries and divisions when the Muslims are in their corner with their BBQ and their meat and the rest of the school is doing the Aussie thing.

When in Rome, do as the Romanians (as Billy Brownless once said ). Speak English and adopt the culture. One doesn't turn up to a formal dinner at someone's house and declare their distaste for the language spoken and the food presented.... does one?

Julia · 6 March 2013

Sdajii said:
Political correctness is out of control. I'm actually very surprised that political correctness hasn't yet vilified halal meat in the west. Many people (myself included) consider the halal method of killing to be very inhumane. Rather than a quick, instant, painless kill, the animal is sliced with a blade and bled to death.

I suppose pandering to peoples' religious stupidity which calls for animal cruelty is more important than preventing animal cruelty.

Interestingly, the Koran states that if no halal meat is available it's okay to eat non halal meat, so they should just be tolerant and eat what the others are eating.

I have no problem with people having what they want, but I do have a problem with one group preventing another from doing what they want to do. If everything is halal it will mean you can't ever cook pork on those barbecues. If someone turns up with regular sausages from the supermarket, too bad, you miss out, you can't cook them. If I turned up with some lamb chops or chicken wings, too bad, I can't cook them.

If one group wants to do their own thing, no worries, that's fine, do your own thing, bring your own barbecue and your own meat, eat whatever you like, but don't put restrictions on others. Even if it's a very trivial matter in this case, the precedent it sets is a very dangerous one, it's a small step in a very wrong direction, and paths the way for more steps in that same direction.

+1. Agree absolutely.

Boggo · 6 March 2013

Sdajii said:
Political correctness is out of control. I'm actually very surprised that political correctness hasn't yet vilified halal meat in the west. Many people (myself included) consider the halal method of killing to be very inhumane. Rather than a quick, instant, painless kill, the animal is sliced with a blade and bled to death.

I suppose pandering to peoples' religious stupidity which calls for animal cruelty is more important than preventing animal cruelty.

Interestingly, the Koran states that if no halal meat is available it's okay to eat non halal meat, so they should just be tolerant and eat what the others are eating.

I have no problem with people having what they want, but I do have a problem with one group preventing another from doing what they want to do. If everything is halal it will mean you can't ever cook pork on those barbecues. If someone turns up with regular sausages from the supermarket, too bad, you miss out, you can't cook them. If I turned up with some lamb chops or chicken wings, too bad, I can't cook them.

If one group wants to do their own thing, no worries, that's fine, do your own thing, bring your own barbecue and your own meat, eat whatever you like, but don't put restrictions on others. Even if it's a very trivial matter in this case, the precedent it sets is a very dangerous one, it's a small step in a very wrong direction, and paths the way for more steps in that same direction.

+ 2

Gringotts Bank · 6 March 2013

No No NO!!!

Look at what the Chinese and Africans and Vietnamese do when they stick to themselves. They create ghettos like Springvale and Box Hill and Victoria Street and turn them into filthy dumps. This is what happens with apartheid. No good. Integration is the way. Separate food, separate BBQs... it's all a part of the problem.

Miss Hale · 6 March 2013

Sdajii said:
Political correctness is out of control. I'm actually very surprised that political correctness hasn't yet vilified halal meat in the west. Many people (myself included) consider the halal method of killing to be very inhumane. Rather than a quick, instant, painless kill, the animal is sliced with a blade and bled to death.

I suppose pandering to peoples' religious stupidity which calls for animal cruelty is more important than preventing animal cruelty.

Interestingly, the Koran states that if no halal meat is available it's okay to eat non halal meat, so they should just be tolerant and eat what the others are eating.

I have no problem with people having what they want, but I do have a problem with one group preventing another from doing what they want to do. If everything is halal it will mean you can't ever cook pork on those barbecues. If someone turns up with regular sausages from the supermarket, too bad, you miss out, you can't cook them. If I turned up with some lamb chops or chicken wings, too bad, I can't cook them.

If one group wants to do their own thing, no worries, that's fine, do your own thing, bring your own barbecue and your own meat, eat whatever you like, but don't put restrictions on others. Even if it's a very trivial matter in this case, the precedent it sets is a very dangerous one, it's a small step in a very wrong direction, and paths the way for more steps in that same direction.

+3

I will not buy or eat Halal meat so therefore if I came to the BBQ I would be discriminated against.

McLovin said:
... I know a few people who actually prefer the taste. ...

Interesting you say that as the as in DocK's opening post he said they were assured there would be no difference in taste.

McLovin · 6 March 2013

Miss Hale said:
+3

I will not buy or eat Halal meat so therefore if I came to the BBQ I would be discriminated against.

Pretty unlikely you never buy or eat it. There's plenty of un-labelled Halal food/meat in supermarkets. It's everywhere.

DocK · 6 March 2013

The replies so far make for interesting reading - and are more or less what I expected - no matter which way we go, someone is going to be either offended, not catered to or upset. I guess this is symptomatic of a multicultural society - there are always going to be differences with no "easy fix". I find myself being a bit of a fence-sitter. I think every student and family are entitled to their own dietary/cultural preferences and should have options made available for them at school functions, but I also completely understand the resentment that some feel when the status quo is thrown out in order to cater to the requirements of a minority.

Personally, I don't wish to eat halal meat as I have concerns over the method of slaughter of the animals. I also disagree with the idea that the longstanding butcher used by the school should be replaced without a qualm because he doesn't sell halal meat, as the vast majority of parents have been happy with his services for many years, and remain so.

I guess it's going to come down to a question of whether we should feel obliged to cater for all students, or just the majority (for the moment) who don't care where their snags come from. Ironically, it'll probably come down to a vote at the next P&F meeting and the majority vote will settle the matter for now

Miss Hale · 6 March 2013

McLovin said:
Pretty unlikely you never buy or eat it. There's plenty of un-labelled Halal food/meat in supermarkets. It's everywhere.

I should have said I never knowingly buy it then.

McLovin · 6 March 2013

Miss Hale said:
I should have said I never knowingly buy it then.

It probably explains why old matey said there would no difference in the taste.

DB008 · 6 March 2013

McLovin said:
I don't see the issue. So much meat is halal now anyway, I know a few people who actually prefer the taste.

Can you please explain how someone 'blessing' meat, makes it taste different? Or did I miss a somewhere?

Anyways.....

Pupils at French school told: 'It's pork or no meat'

Pupils at a school in France will no longer be given a substitute meat if they don't eat pork, as local authorities try to cut down on food waste and costs. Parents have complained about the measure.

From this month onwards the school in the village of Arveyres in the Gironde region of south-west France will no longer offer a meat alternative to those children who do not eat pork, which is forbidden under Jewish and Muslim dietary laws.

Around 30 of the 180 children used to be offered a substitute meat when pork was on the menu, France's TF1 television reports.

Parents of some of those pupils affected have taken umbrage to the decision.

“We are not asking for halal or kosher meat,” one mother told France blue radio. “We just want a meal with substitute protein.”

McLovin · 6 March 2013

DB008 said:
Can you please explain how someone 'blessing' meat, makes it taste different? Or did I miss a somewhere?

Apparently it has something to do with the draining of the blood. Dunno, it all tastes the same to me.

DB008 · 6 March 2013

McLovin said:
Apparently it has something to do with the draining of the blood. Dunno, it all tastes the same to me.

I would say that it makes no difference. Placebo effect maybe?

School BBQs - Halal or not?

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