Same sex marriage - Yes or No?

[Junior]

If the Libs don't honour the outcome of this poll, they go from being a slim chance of another term to a zero chance, in my opinion.

 

[PZ99]

Gotta love the idiosyncratic nature of democracy - even just for the entertainment value

On a scale of 50 to 100 percent - how much do people in this thread wish to bend the goal posts of democracy to suit the loosing side? Almost by definition anything above 50% is a step towards Kommunism.

For example I personally accept a result of 50.000001%, maybe even a bit less. Labor on the other hand have already decided to not honour the outcome. So that puts them at 100%, despite the wishes of some of their own MP's.

And what happens if the NO side wins by 51%? Same rules or more Kommunism ? LOL

 

[Junior]

Labour's policy is to change the marriage act, so if they are voted into power at the next election, that is one of their policies people are voting in favour of.

Libs decided to go down the path of a Poll, so they will need to honour the outcome or else the whole exercise has been pointless.

 

[wayneL]

Labour's policy is to change the marriage act, so if they are voted into power at the next election, that is one of their policies people are voting in favour of.

Libs decided to go down the path of a Poll, so they will need to honour the outcome or else the whole exercise has been pointless.

Great, we get a few happy gays... and a financial and social apocalypse.

 

[Tisme]

Gotta love the idiosyncratic nature of democracy - even just for the entertainment value

On a scale of 50 to 100 percent - how much do people in this thread wish to bend the goal posts of democracy to suit the loosing side? Almost by definition anything above 50% is a step towards Kommunism.

For example I personally accept a result of 50.000001%, maybe even a bit less. Labor on the other hand have already decided to not honour the outcome. So that puts them at 100%, despite the wishes of some of their own MP's.

And what happens if the NO side wins by 51%? Same rules or more Kommunism ? LOL

If it was a referendum it would need a national majority of voters from all states and territories to vote ‘Yes’ and a majority (more than half) of voters in at least four of the six states to also vote ‘Yes’.

Be interesting to see the state by state.

 

[PZ99]

If it was a referendum it would need a national majority of voters from all states and territories to vote ‘Yes’ and a majority (more than half) of voters in at least four of the six states to also vote ‘Yes’.

Be interesting to see the state by state.

Only state by state poll I know of is the one posted some time back in this thread - even down to seat by seat in the spoiler tag. Became somewhat of a city / country divide affair.

This was last year so probably a bit different today.

Spoiler

Lowest to highest of YES %
MARANOA 42%
HINKLER 43%
FLYNN 44%
GROOM 45%
KENNEDY 46%
BLAXLAND 46%
PARKES 47%
WRIGHT 47%
CHIFLEY 47%
MCMAHON 48%
CAPRICORNIA 48%
DAWSON 48%
RANKIN 49%
GREENWAY 49%
FORDE 49%
LONGMAN 49%
WERRIWA 50%
BARKER 50%
WIDE BAY 51%
BLAIR 51%
CANNING 51%
NEW ENGLAND 51%
LYNE 51%
O'CONNOR 51%
BANKS 51%
PETRIE 52%
GREY 52%
PARRAMATTA 52%
WATSON 52%
BRADDON 52%
RIVERINA 52%
MITCHELL 52%
FOWLER 52%
CALWELL 53%
BURT 53%
MACARTHUR 53%
BOWMAN 53%
HUME 53%
DICKSON 53%
DURACK 53%
BRUCE 53%
HUGHES 54%
LINDSAY 54%
FAIRFAX 54%
COOK 54%
BONNER 54%
FADDEN 54%
FARRER 54%
WHITLAM 54%
PATERSON 55%
MURRAY 55%
HOLT 55%
LYONS 55%
LINGIARI 55%
FISHER 55%
BEROWRA 55%
CALARE 55%
OXLEY 55%
HUNTER 55%
PAGE 55%
COWPER 55%
BASS 55%
FORREST 55%
LEICHHARDT 55%
GILMORE 55%
MALLEE 55%
HASLUCK 56%
MONCRIEFF 56%
PEARCE 56%
HERBERT 56%
BENNELONG 56%
COWAN 56%
SHORTLAND 56%
GIPPSLAND 56%
MCPHERSON 56%
TANGNEY 57%
DOBELL 57%
MAKIN 57%
MORETON 57%
ROBERTSON 58%
MACQUARIE 58%
MOORE 58%
WAKEFIELD 58%
GORTON 58%
BARTON 58%
BRAND 58%
EDEN-MONARO 58%
WANNON 58%
ASTON 58%
CUNNINGHAM 59%
SCULLIN 59%
MENZIES 60%
KINGSTON 60%
BRADFIELD 60%
LALOR 60%
MACKELLAR 60%
MAYO 61%
LILLEY 61%
RICHMOND 61%
MCMILLAN 61%
FRANKLIN 61%
STURT 61%
MCEWEN 61%
REID 61%
SWAN 62%
HINDMARSH 62%
DEAKIN 62%
STIRLING 62%
BOOTHBY 63%
RYAN 63%
PORT ADELAIDE 63%
SOLOMON 63%
CHISHOLM 64%
CASEY 64%
INDI 64%
NEWCASTLE 64%
LA TROBE 64%
CORIO 64%
FREMANTLE 64%
CORANGAMITE 64%
BENDIGO 65%
FLINDERS 65%
BALLARAT 65%
HOTHAM 65%
CURTIN 66%
ADELAIDE 66%
DUNKLEY 66%
MARIBYRNONG 66%
ISAACS 67%
KINGSFORD SMITH 67%
GRIFFITH 68%
PERTH 68%
KOOYONG 68%
JAGAJAGA 68%
BRISBANE 69%
NORTH SYDNEY 69%
WARRINGAH 70%
DENISON 70%
CANBERRA 70%
FENNER 71%
GOLDSTEIN 73%
GELLIBRAND 73%
HIGGINS 74%
WILLS 75%
BATMAN 76%
GRAYNDLER 77%
WENTWORTH 78%
MELBOURNE 78%
MELBOURNE PORTS 79%
SYDNEY 79%

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/same-sex-marriage-yes-or-no.33354/page-40#post-959527

 

[Tisme]

Only state by state poll I know of is the one posted some time back in this thread - even down to seat by seat in the spoiler tag. Became somewhat of a city / country divide affair.

Apparently the young postal vote has tanked

 

[PZ99]

Apparently the young postal vote has tanked

It's down across all the demos from what I can tell.

 

[Logique]

The ABC vote compass thingy has similar results to our result here.

This poll was carried out between May and July last year. Around 750K responded.

Additionally they've broken down the results into each seat as follows:

Spoiler

Lowest to highest of YES %
MARANOA 42%
HINKLER 43%
FLYNN 44%
GROOM 45%
KENNEDY 46%
BLAXLAND 46%
PARKES 47%
WRIGHT 47%
CHIFLEY 47%
MCMAHON 48%
CAPRICORNIA 48%
DAWSON 48%
RANKIN 49%
GREENWAY 49%
FORDE 49%
LONGMAN 49%
WERRIWA 50%
BARKER 50%
WIDE BAY 51%
BLAIR 51%
CANNING 51%
NEW ENGLAND 51%
LYNE 51%
O'CONNOR 51%
BANKS 51%
PETRIE 52%
GREY 52%
PARRAMATTA 52%
WATSON 52%
BRADDON 52%
RIVERINA 52%
MITCHELL 52%
FOWLER 52%
CALWELL 53%
BURT 53%
MACARTHUR 53%
BOWMAN 53%
HUME 53%
DICKSON 53%
DURACK 53%
BRUCE 53%
HUGHES 54%
LINDSAY 54%
FAIRFAX 54%
COOK 54%
BONNER 54%
FADDEN 54%
FARRER 54%
WHITLAM 54%
PATERSON 55%
MURRAY 55%
HOLT 55%
LYONS 55%
LINGIARI 55%
FISHER 55%
BEROWRA 55%
CALARE 55%
OXLEY 55%
HUNTER 55%
PAGE 55%
COWPER 55%
BASS 55%
FORREST 55%
LEICHHARDT 55%
GILMORE 55%
MALLEE 55%
HASLUCK 56%
MONCRIEFF 56%
PEARCE 56%
HERBERT 56%
BENNELONG 56%
COWAN 56%
SHORTLAND 56%
GIPPSLAND 56%
MCPHERSON 56%
TANGNEY 57%
DOBELL 57%
MAKIN 57%
MORETON 57%
ROBERTSON 58%
MACQUARIE 58%
MOORE 58%
WAKEFIELD 58%
GORTON 58%
BARTON 58%
BRAND 58%
EDEN-MONARO 58%
WANNON 58%
ASTON 58%
CUNNINGHAM 59%
SCULLIN 59%
MENZIES 60%
KINGSTON 60%
BRADFIELD 60%
LALOR 60%
MACKELLAR 60%
MAYO 61%
LILLEY 61%
RICHMOND 61%
MCMILLAN 61%
FRANKLIN 61%
STURT 61%
MCEWEN 61%
REID 61%
SWAN 62%
HINDMARSH 62%
DEAKIN 62%
STIRLING 62%
BOOTHBY 63%
RYAN 63%
PORT ADELAIDE 63%
SOLOMON 63%
CHISHOLM 64%
CASEY 64%
INDI 64%
NEWCASTLE 64%
LA TROBE 64%
CORIO 64%
FREMANTLE 64%
CORANGAMITE 64%
BENDIGO 65%
FLINDERS 65%
BALLARAT 65%
HOTHAM 65%
CURTIN 66%
ADELAIDE 66%
DUNKLEY 66%
MARIBYRNONG 66%
ISAACS 67%
KINGSFORD SMITH 67%
GRIFFITH 68%
PERTH 68%
KOOYONG 68%
JAGAJAGA 68%
BRISBANE 69%
NORTH SYDNEY 69%
WARRINGAH 70%
DENISON 70%
CANBERRA 70%
FENNER 71%
GOLDSTEIN 73%
GELLIBRAND 73%
HIGGINS 74%
WILLS 75%
BATMAN 76%
GRAYNDLER 77%
WENTWORTH 78%
MELBOURNE 78%
MELBOURNE PORTS 79%
SYDNEY 79%

View attachment 72608

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-13/same-sex-marriage-support-map-vote-compass/8788978

That's an interesting presentation. As suspected, it's those arrogant inner-city types most supportive of 'Yes'. They're breathing too much atmospheric lead.

Once people get away from the city, their thoughts clear.

Mind you, what about the firm support in the NW, WA and NT!

 

[PZ99]

I believe once you get away from the city it takes longer for your vote to be counted

Key dates:

Friday, 27 October 2017 - Please mail your form back to the ABS by this date to make sure it counts.

Tuesday, 7 November 2017 (6pm local time) - The survey closes. If your survey is received after this, it will not be counted.

Wednesday, 15 November 2017 - Survey results published on the ABS website. The Australian Statistician will publish a statement on the quality and integrity of the survey.

Thursday, 16 November 2017 - ASF server goes into meltdown.

 

[Tink]

Far right?
We seem to have a few versions, going by the ABC.

People that are standing up for traditions.

If we are talking about communities getting together, then yes, it is rising.

This plebiscite, which going by the constitution, should have been a referendum (?), has allowed people to come out and speak.

This is my view.

 

[Value Collector]

Gotta love the idiosyncratic nature of democracy - even just for the entertainment value

On a scale of 50 to 100 percent - how much do people in this thread wish to bend the goal posts of democracy to suit the loosing side? Almost by definition anything above 50% is a step towards Kommunism.

For example I personally accept a result of 50.000001%, maybe even a bit less. Labor on the other hand have already decided to not honour the outcome. So that puts them at 100%, despite the wishes of some of their own MP's.

And what happens if the NO side wins by 51%? Same rules or more Kommunism ? LOL

If we were instead in the 1700's USA, Voting on whether to retain the existing slavery laws, and the 55% of the vote was for "yes", Should the government have the right to retain slavery? of course not, because both the USA and Australia are not simple "Majority rules" democracy, they are "constitutional democracy", and the majority not not vote to take away human rights from minority groups.

So I think Labor have the moral high ground here, even if the vote said no, they still have the moral duty to allow gay marriage.

 

[SirRumpole]

If we were instead in the 1700's USA, Voting on whether to retain the existing slavery laws, and the 55% of the vote was for "yes", Should the government have the right to retain slavery? of course not, because both the USA and Australia are not simple "Majority rules" democracy, they are "constitutional democracy", and the majority not not vote to take away human rights from minority groups.

So I think Labor have the moral high ground here, even if the vote said no, they still have the moral duty to allow gay marriage.

Same sex marriage is NOT slavery.

In who's opinion is marriage a "right" ?(And if you say "the UN", I'll point out that it's an organisation dominated by countries that have Islamic or other repressive governments that have little interest in human rights).

As long as governments don't interfere with freedom of association then it's up to society to recognise what is a marriage and what isn't. That's why we are being asked our opinion, one of the few times voters ever get a chance to decide legislation.

 

[Wysiwyg]

That's why we are being asked our opinion, one of the few times voters ever get a chance to decide legislation.

I think it is wrong to make legislation on the outcome of a non compulsory survey.

 

[Value Collector]

Same sex marriage is NOT slavery.

So what? its an example where I think you would agree that even if the popular opinion was to retain slavery, the government has the duty to ignore the majority vote and uphold the black minorities civil rights.

In who's opinion is marriage a "right"

The UN charter of human rights, which Australia was a signatory to, and basic common sense, e.g. marriage is a human thing, we have the right to human things proved we aren't harming anyone.

As long as governments don't interfere with freedom of association then it's up to society to recognise what is a marriage and what isn't.

Say society was 51% catholic, would you accept a vote that said marriage would be limited to "catholic marriage" ?

Or would you think that the catholic majority have no right to remove your rights to freedom of religion, regardless of their majority position.

Its not a hard concept mate, our constitutional democracy is not a majority rules arrangement.

 

[SirRumpole]

Its not a hard concept mate, our constitutional democracy is not a majority rules arrangement.

Yes it is. All our legislation comes down to a majority of votes in the House and the Senate.

Even if there is only one vote in it in either house, the majority wins, no matter how despicable the public may think the legislation is.

 

[basilio]

Yes it is. All our legislation comes down to a majority of votes in the House and the Senate.

Even if there is only one vote in it in either house, the majority wins, no matter how despicable the public may think the legislation is.

Not quite true Rumpy. Your statement assumes the Parliaments reflect the public. True Australia has a fairly honest electoral system but gerrymanders of rural electorates are still happening. It is possible for a party to gain 50% of the public vote and still not get into power.

 

[SirRumpole]

Not quite true Rumpy. Your statement assumes the Parliaments reflect the public.

No bas, I assumed no such thing. I simply pointed out to Value Collector that ultimately our legislation come down to a simple majority of votes in Parliament, regardless of what the public thinks about the result, in refutation of his statement "our constitutional democracy is not a majority rules arrangement.".

 

[drsmith]

I see the gap is slowly closing.

 

[Value Collector]

Yes it is. All our legislation comes down to a majority of votes in the House and the Senate.

Even if there is only one vote in it in either house, the majority wins, no matter how despicable the public may think the legislation is.

You are missing the point,

The majority, can not take away the rights of a minority, regardless of whether then win a vote of not.

Hence why even a law that got 100% suppport by parliament could still be struck down as "unconstitutional"

Google the term "inalienable rights"