Same sex marriage - Yes or No?

[Value Collector]

I'd agree with that if people actually accepted the 18 Parliamentary votes on SSM that have been held in the past and resulted in NO.

Obviously some people don't take NO for an answer, they are they loudest voices in this campaign.

Just like if parliament voted NO, to giving aboriginals the right to vote or women the right to vote, you would expect it to just keep coming up, because when it comes to civil rights that's the way it is, you just keep going until the right thing is done.

And public opinion is basically meaningless, because the majority does not have the right to suppress a minority.

 

[basilio]

How are really big changes in society managed? I was looking at the History of Slavery in England and in itself it offers an insight into the various economic and social interests that were involved.

One thing for certain - people didn't just "see the light" and decide that Slavery was too awful to allow.

Its worth remembering that the Slave trade and the associated West Indian plantations created fantastic wealth in England. In fact when slavery was finally abolished the payout to the slave owners for loss of property was in the millions of pounds

If you don't know the history of Slavery in England this is an excellent resource. (You might learn something new..)

Slavery

It may seem extraordinary today but, just less than 200 years ago, many people throughout Europe, Africa and the Americas saw nothing wrong in the idea that one human being could own another. The ‘owned' person or ‘slave' had no rights.

In this section:

You will find background information on the history of African enslavement: how the Transatlantic Slave Trade developed, British involvement in the Slave Trade, how a movement arose to try to abolish it and the opposition they faced.

http://abolition.e2bn.org/slavery.html

 

[SirRumpole]

And public opinion is basically meaningless, because the majority does not have the right to suppress a minority.

Let's have a dictatorship in that case.

 

[basilio]

A Day in the Life
This tool allows pupils to compare what a typical day may have been like for four people whose lives were impacted by the slave trade:

• A field slave
• A household slave
• A sailor on a slave ship
• An absentee plantation owner

The next phase of development, due January 2010, will allow pupils to research and construct their own 'Day in the Life' by placing their own pictures or drawings they have found into the tool and adding text and audio to accompany this.

Comparison and research into the lives that these people lived, provides a powerful way to illustrate many of the issues relating to abolition and to allows younger pupils to develop empathy and understanding of the lives of people that were very different from their own.

http://abolition.e2bn.org/lessons/view.php?page_type=lessonplan&section=tools&id=157
http://abolition.e2bn.org/a_day_in_the_life_of/

 

[SirRumpole]

A Day in the Life
This tool allows pupils to compare what a typical day may have been like for four people whose lives were impacted by the slave trade:

• A field slave
• A household slave
• A sailor on a slave ship
• An absentee plantation owner

You are comparing same sex marriage to slavery ? That's a bit hyperbolic isn't it ?

 

[basilio]

You are comparing same sex marriage to slavery ? That's a bit hyperbolic isn't it ?

Nuh .. I was actually following up on VC's comments about the long term efforts it takes to gain some basic human rights. Abolishing slavery was a good example.

When I found this resource I thought it was interesting enough in its own right for people to read. Realistically I would be surprised if anyone in ASF (myself included) knew more than 10% of this history.

 

[Tisme]

Oh the hyprocrisy.

You know that provocation to violence just seems to have side stepped your consciousness? Not only that but you called the brothers you are so bothered to protect from the big bad meanies "pooftas".

Tell me again about hypocrisy and pretence .......

 

[cynic]

All that we are witnessing today, was foretold decades ago:

 

[Tisme]

Nuh .. I was actually following up on VC's comments about the long term efforts it takes to gain some basic human rights. Abolishing slavery was a good example.

When I found this resource I thought it was interesting enough in its own right for people to read. Realistically I would be surprised if anyone in ASF (myself included) knew more than 10% of this history.

You know what you should do is get onto trove and actually get a feel for how social engineering has been changing in the THIS country since settlement. Have a look at things like who could do what, voting legislation, who could marry whom, etc ... you know make it relevant to Australia rather than rice plantations.

The great influx of non Anglo cultures has certainly brought with it many different attitudes to what was once considered cultured society.

 

[SirRumpole]

Just like if parliament voted NO, to giving aboriginals the right to vote or women the right to vote, you would expect it to just keep coming up, because when it comes to civil rights that's the way it is, you just keep going until the right thing is done.

If the "right thing" is allowing hate speech like that practised by gay rights activist Benjamin Law, then I think people are going to think again about YES case and the people pursuing it, and one of your brothers agrees.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...r/news-story/af7579ee984fd04c6702a61377c2d340

 

[Tink]

Marriage is taken.
Find another word.

There is no discrimination and they have their rights.
Legislation was put through for their civil unions.

There is no 'right' to Marriage
There is a reason Marriage is Father, Mother, Child.
It is equal.

All I see are advocates talking about rights, but no responsibilities.
No reason.

We are one nation under God.

 

[wayneL]

If the "right thing" is allowing hate speech like that practised by gay rights activist Benjamin Law, then I think people are going to think again about YES case and the people pursuing it, and one of your brothers agrees.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...r/news-story/af7579ee984fd04c6702a61377c2d340

Paywall Horace... can you copy and paste please?

 

[SirRumpole]

Paywall Horace... can you copy and paste please?

I could access it yesterday, but not today.

Here is another article that says basically the same.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/ga...e/news-story/9aa68a1b5dd19bd9e29015bae099d80c

 

[Tisme]

Paywall Horace... can you copy and paste please?

“Sometimes find myself wondering if I’d hate-f..k all the anti-gay MPs in parliament if it meant they got the homophobia out of their system.” Benjamn Law

It's a "joke" that he wrote in response to criticism of his push for a wider rollout of the "safe schools" gay grooming program.

Laugh...so funny

 

[Tink]

Well they are a package, SSM and (un) safe schools.

If they change Marriage to genderless with the 'free love' mantra, that will be pushed even more so on the children, imv.

http://youreteachingourchildrenwhat.org/

 

[Junior]

It will happen. Either this year or quickly following the next federal election. Those who are opposed can either open their minds a little bit, or continue living with their frustrations.

Life will go on, the 'family unit' will not be damaged, all your children will not turn gay, people will not start marrying animals. Even if they do, you will not be forced to attend the wedding.

Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.

George Bernard Shaw

 

[Tisme]

Life will go on, the 'family unit' will not be damaged, all your children will not turn gay, people will not start marrying animals. Even if they do, you will not be forced to attend the wedding.

If only that were the case, but has been seen the ABC, for instance. it would be front and centre every second news article and drama series. At which point the rebels without a cause would restart for social change and new legislation because it doesn't hurt anyone, merely offends the kernal of societies operating systems.

 

[Junior]

For those so concerned about the sanctity of the family unit, perhaps you should take a look at what is causing the real damage, affecting around 30% of all marriages in this country and often leaving kids without a father or mother.

The Family Law Act 1975 established the principle of no-fault divorce in Australian law. This means that a court does not consider which partner was at fault in the marriage breakdown.

 

[wayneL]

View attachment 72597

It will happen. Either this year or quickly following the next federal election. Those who are opposed can either open their minds a little bit, or continue living with their frustrations.

Life will go on, the 'family unit' will not be damaged, all your children will not turn gay, people will not start marrying animals. Even if they do, you will not be forced to attend the wedding.

George Bernard Shaw

You the yessers keep trying to make it a binary argument

Yes - Tolerant inclusive fair lovely etc

No - Religious bigots and homophobes

However most of my circle who are nos, are no over subsequent concerns for free speech and how it leads into other agenda.... fears amplified by the conduct of the yes campaign.

Not one is actually against a legally equivalent institution, whether it is called marriage or not.

 

[PZ99]

We're now starting to see why so many people were opposed to the plebiscite in the first place due mostly to fear of hate campaigns, false propaganda and the parallel agendas that come with it

2016:> https://www.theguardian.com/austral...oppose-plebiscite-on-marriage-equality-survey