Same sex marriage - Yes or No?

pixel · 7 September 2017

SirRumpole said:
There already is one "Same sex Parenting" buried somewhere in the archives.

It's NOT about same-sex parenting.
It's about Parenting. Full Stop.

In the absence of conclusive studies into parenting outcomes as a function of parents' sexual orientation, we can not make any but the most cursory and biased statements on the subject. Every Tom, Dick, and Harriette will pick anecdotal tales that support their personal bias. And the result will be statements as offensive as "Same-sex couples raise AIDS kids" or "Dark-skinned girls are raped by their relatives from an early age" or "single-parent kids think it's normal to live on the Dole"...

SirRumpole said:
What makes you think that same sex parents would be any better on average ?

So, you agree then that same-sex couples are quite "normal" - on average.

SirRumpole · 7 September 2017

pixel said:
In the absence of conclusive studies into parenting outcomes as a function of parents' sexual orientation, we can not make any but the most cursory and biased statements on the subject. Every Tom, Dick, and Harriette will pick anecdotal tales that support their personal bias.

Can you honestly say that anyone who has been raised in a happy environment by their biological mother and father would prefer that they were raised by homosexuals ?

basilio · 7 September 2017

SirRumpole said:
Can you honestly say that anyone who has been raised in a happy environment by their biological mother and father would prefer that they were raised by homosexuals ?

Che ???!! .
I'm speechless Rumpy. Your waaaay better than that post.

SirRumpole · 7 September 2017

basilio said:
Che ???!! .
I'm speechless Rumpy. Your waaaay better than that post.

It's a straightforward question, maybe a bit blunt, but I don't see why the outrage.

Think about it honestly Bas. If we would not be prepared to go through it ourselves, I don't see how we can expect others to.

Macquack · 7 September 2017

SirRumpole said:
Can you honestly say that anyone who has been raised in a happy environment by their biological mother and father would prefer that they were raised by homosexuals ?

I would have preferred to have been brought up by the Swedish Bikini Team, but I may not be "normal".

SirRumpole · 7 September 2017

Macquack said:
I would have preferred to have been brought up by the Swedish Bikini Team, but I may not be "normal".

I was quite happy with my parents, even though they didn't wear bikinis in those days.

satanoperca · 7 September 2017

Mate, what sought of logic is that, so if we are going to through up irrational comments try this.

Would you have rather been parented by two loving homosexuals (cannot stand the need to label but in the context of this discussion it seems necessary) or by a woman and man (opposite sex) where one party or both were abusive, alcoholics?

Of course in a perfect world, every child would have a mother and father who loved each other and the sibling(s), but last I checked, we don't live in a perfect world.

If you are so concerned with how children develop into adults, do you donate your valuable time to all those children in need, who come from abusive opposite sex marriages or are you another idealist that thinks every is sunshine and lollipops out their if they ad hear to your ideologies.

My apologies, I take everything back about you Rumpole. Anyone who goes by the name SIR aligns themselves with the old customs of being a feudal lord, which explains your current thought process on these issues.

SirRumpole · 7 September 2017

satanoperca said:
My apologies, I take everything back about you Rumpole. Anyone who goes by the name SIR aligns themselves with the old customs of being a feudal lord, which explains your current thought process on these issues.

Oh no, SIR was simply a tongue in cheek response to Tony Abbott's knights and dames bullshite.

Would you have rather been parented by two loving homosexuals (cannot stand the need to label but in the context of this discussion it seems necessary) or by a woman and man (opposite sex) where one party or both were abusive, alcoholics?

I did say "all else being equal". Are you saying that no homosexual couples are abusive ?

Anyway, time to end this. I'm voting No, not because I think gays shouldn't be able to marry but because I think the traditional Marriage Act should be maintained.

I'll probably lose, but that's life.

cynic · 7 September 2017

Macquack said:
I would have preferred to have been brought up by the Swedish Bikini Team, but I may not be "normal".

Some might say "never mind". But others could say:

Wysiwyg · 7 September 2017

basilio said:
The Australian people have long since made up their minds that they support marriage equality so let's take the last small step together.
Tiernan Brady

This bloke makes a lot of inclusive statements as if everyone has free issue rainbow coloured glasses on. I was genuinely interested in the outcomes two years after the homosexually governed Irish voted to change the definition of marriage. Instead it is an article written by the homosexual political director of the Irish Yes Equality campaign who gaily attempts to persuade people to vote yes in Australia. I had better check if my free issue rainbow coloured glasses have arrived so I can make the transition to completely persuaded.

Wysiwyg · 7 September 2017

In the workplace there is a campaign for LGBTIQ. "If I wear it I declare it" something to do with wearing a purple ribbon and declaring you are gay or a gay supporter. WTF. Where does this unimportant stuff come from? I don't want to be "made aware". Next will be a 0.5% levy imposed to raise funds to build cities for these people, free medical and employment preference over non LGBTIQ.

basilio · 7 September 2017

SirRumpole said:
It's a straightforward question, maybe a bit blunt, but I don't see why the outrage.

Think about it honestly Bas. If we would not be prepared to go through it ourselves, I don't see how we can expect others to.

So you are serious and you can't see the "madness" of the hypothetical question you pose ?
We live in the real world where time doesn't go backwards and we can't magically propose another past that somehow might be better than the one we have already experienced.
You ask the question about a person, say me or you, who has had a "happy childhood environment with Mum and Dad" prefering to have been raised by 2 men/women.

Firstly I just can't see almost anyone who has had a happy childhood wondering whether another pair of parents could have been better. Really, why would you ? What mental gain is achieved by the process ? What would it prove ?

But for the sake of the hypothetical lets say we pursue the question. Would our next parents be more exotic than our perhaps staid, average Joe / Jane family ? Could be they be better off ? More cultured ? More sport ? More arty ? Would I have more interesting siblings ? Perhaps ones who were nicer to me ? What would the grandparents be like ?

What if there were two men/woman who were wealthy, intelligent, kind, fun and loved you to bitts ? What if they supported you in whatever career you chose, gave you the kicks in the bum to keep you on track and kept you out of trouble during the challenges of adolescence ? Would these characteristics be enough to make up for the fact they were two men/two women?

In the real world many of us have average or poor or irresponsible or slightly crazy parents. Or they have these traits some of the time. That is just the way it is. We deal with it as best we can. But in my view the qualities that make people shine as parents don't include whether they are straight or gay.
Perhaps that is why we now allow gay people and singles to become foster parents and adopt children if they present as loving, responsible, committed people.

So its a long response Rumpy but in essence you posed a silly non-question which could only generate a million sillier non responses.

Rubbish in. Rubbish out

Wysiwyg · 7 September 2017

pixel said:
It's NOT about same-sex parenting.
It's about Parenting. Full Stop.
In the absence of conclusive studies into parenting outcomes as a function of parents' sexual orientation, we can not make any but the most cursory and biased statements on the subject.

It is observed that females are the producing and nurturing of offspring with male input to varying degrees. That bond begins in the womb and stays physically until the offspring is ready to exist independently. If it is about parenting then it is going to be about adoption for males and transvestites and sperm donations or adoption for females. Out of the multiple scenarios it would be natural (whatever natural could mean going forward) for females to do better instinctively (again whatever instinctive is going forward). There is also the possibility a child raised in these alternate sexuality relationships one day learns the majority of other kids have a mum and dad. Some conditioning about the new normal will be required.

SirRumpole · 8 September 2017

basilio said:
We deal with it as best we can. But in my view the qualities that make people shine as parents don't include whether they are straight or gay.

Well, we will just have to disagree there.

Male & female role models are essential in a child's development in my view and the best place to get these is in the home.

As the children of gays turn into adults a number are coming forward in favour of traditional families. I've posted links to their stories before. If we don't listen to those who have been through the experience then we have no right to make judgements from our own ivory towers.

But for the sake of the hypothetical lets say we pursue the question. Would our next parents be more exotic than our perhaps staid, average Joe / Jane family ? Could be they be better off ? More cultured ? More sport ? More arty ? Would I have more interesting siblings ? Perhaps ones who were nicer to me ? What would the grandparents be like ?

All the things you mentioned are irrelevant. The question was not about "more arty" or "more sporty", it was simply about their gender. If children in school are required to imagine being in a same sex relationship I'm sure you could imagine if your mother was a man or your father was a woman couldn't you ? It's the same principle of putting yourself in other's shoes which I believe you said was a valid thing for children to do. Or are you prepared to abandon that philosophy ?

Triathlete · 8 September 2017

kirraliesmith.org/2017/09/greens-admit-ssm-is-not-the-end-goal.html

drsmith · 8 September 2017

Sportsbet odds are relatively tight at $1.60/$2.25 in favour of a yes outcome from the postal vote.

https://www.sportsbet.com.au/betting/politics/same-sex-marriage

The political left now faces a dilemma as a yes outcome would undoubtedly be favoured by the Turnbull government. The conduct of the campaign will be interesting to watch, from all sides.

Logique · 8 September 2017

Triathlete said:
kirraliesmith.org/2017/09/greens-admit-ssm-is-not-the-end-goal.html

Well found Tri. The piece comes as no surprise to anyone following the evolution of the SSM push. The gays are just dates for the Prom. My bolds..

Read more here: https://greens.org.au/magazine/national/beyond-marriage-equality...The Greens admit there is equality already and the real aim is to pursue radical gender theories.
It is clear that despite the lies dished out by Shorten, the Greens and other “yes” campaigners this debate is about a lot more than two people getting married. Radical gender theory is driving this and we must look at the statistics and facts from around the world where same sex marriage has been legalised.

It hasn’t made much difference at all to the problems faced by the LGBTI community but it has made a great deal of difference to free speech, freedom of religion and freedom of association.
Don’t be sucked in by the emotive hashtags such as #loveislove and don’t be fooled into believing this is simply a vote on two people getting married because by the Greens own hand they admit there is something else going on...

History Repeats · 8 September 2017

I would vote no, for me it's against the nature.

Value Collector · 8 September 2017

History Repeats said:
I would vote no, for me it's against the nature.

How so? Homosexuality exists in nature.

But I don't think things being "natural" stop you normally, for example you see to be using the internet, thats not natural.

Tisme · 8 September 2017

Do old people have the moral right to be voting, given they are not likely to see the mess they left behind.

Same sex marriage - Yes or No?