Rudd and the stockmarket

[The Mint Man]

When the economy turns, those who are without the protection of an organisation like the Union will cop it in the neck.

Mate, they will 'cop it in the neck' either way, some will lose their jobs because of it and theres nothing the union can do about that and they shouldnt act like they can!
In a situation like that I would take a pay cut instead of losing my job if I had to.
But you union guys dont have to worry about that do you? you can cause trouble while the workers lose pay (or their jobs in some cases) all the while your still getting paid through those very workers membership fees.

I find it funny that most of your 18 posts have been in this thread alone, how many other forums have you joined lately just to push the union/labor movement?

Cheers

 

[Sprinter79]

Mate, they will 'cop it in the neck' either way, some will lose their jobs because of it and theres nothing the union can do about that and they shouldnt act like they can!
In a situation like that I would take a pay cut instead of losing my job if I had to.
But you union guys dont have to worry about that do you? you can cause trouble while the workers lose pay (or their jobs in some cases) all the while your still getting paid through those very workers membership fees.

I find it funny that most of your 18 posts have been in this thread alone, how many other forums have you joined lately just to push the union/labor movement?

Cheers

If you read my posts closely, you'll find that I don't actually work for the union. There's plenty a union can do when things go south, like looking after employees entitlements so that greedy shareholders can't get them if a business closes down
I know your last comment was just a bait, but I don't even vote Labor, so I don't have a barrow to push

 

[Smurf1976]

i think history will record the years from 1950 - 2020 as a golden age where prosperity spread beyond the 'old' rich.

but i doubt a race to the bottom in wages is going to bring down the cost of living... we are already seeing prices of goods go up, not becuase of increases in local demand, but becuase wealtheir people in asia are willing to pay more for Australian produce than what they can get in Australian markets...

there are 6 billion people in the world at present...
we need to decide how we want be compete, on lowest wages, or by having the smartest employees and the best infrastructure.

Surely it ought to be the aim of all sides of politics to increase, not decrease, the wellbeing of all Australians willing (whether able or not) to work.

The question is how to do it. Third World exploitation of the natural environment in every possible manner (mining, tourism, forestry, agriculture etc) or First World innovation and value adding. The former creates a lot of physical work, the latter brings economic wealth.:

Agreed about the 1950 - 2020 bit. Technological leadership, cheap energy, resource abundance, rising population, ability to increase debt. All have given the industrialised countries a massive advantage during recent decades and all are either presently under threat or ulitmately unsustainable in one way or another.

I'm not convinced about the 2020 date though - do some research into world oil production over the past two years and you'll see what I'm worried about. A massive issue that all sides of politics are effectively ignoring. For those not aware, it's falling. At best that means present prices are way too cheap to sustain production. At worst...

 

[arminius]

norway, denmark etc pay a lot of tax but health and education are first class and free. (im sure a native could correct if im wrong). was only there a few weeks.
we cannot compete in the world market on price. the only way is quality. we cant make cheap cars, but we could make damn good ones. how many of you drive exy euro cars, when a hyundai is half the price?

actually we dont make much any more do we...

how do we create quality in the future? education. what has the govt done for education in the last ten years? bugger all.

i look around my uni and see hundreds of intrernational students. they will take back home a good whack of our intellectual capital. the following generations will be far less able to compete on quality because other parts of the world would have caught up. if they are smart AND cheap, where does that lead us?

why are there so many internationals here? because its the only way our unis can cope financially...because they have been massively underinvested!

personally, i struggle to get by financially but i accept that. i just wonder though if students had more time to study, and not work 3 days a week, how much intellectual capital would our students have. our science student is not finding the cure for cancer because he is stacking shelves at woolies. (for 8 bucks an hour-take it or leave it) more austudy isnt going to happen- just a thought though.
our universities should have enough cash to maintain standards, and not force lecturers to pass dodgy essays etc in order to ensure fee paying students keep coming over. its a travesty for all our kids and grandkids.
i hate the govt with a passion. bring on the election. if you are gonna vote lib, take a good hard look at yourself. the economy will be fine. no one is gonna come and take all your cars and plasma screens away. dont let the politics of fear get you. have some guts.
cheerio

 

[Sprinter79]

Huzzah!!!

Well said.

I can give you a real life example of quality vs quantity. Do many of you guys know much about the plastic manufacturing industry?

A few years back, we did a significant amount of work in that industry, and basically, what was happening was that most of the plastic work was heading overseas. Where this industry was still doing well was in the actual design and manufacture of the steel dies used to make the plastics products. Depending on the size of the die, it can cost 10s even 100s of thousands of dollars to make, and with an investment that big, companies are still willing to pay a bit more for the quality, and the extra quality will pay for itself. That won't last unfortunately, and the cheaper asian countries will be sourced for this kind of thing (bottom line, bottom line).

Another example.... At a metal manufacturing shop, a few weeks ago... company A contracted company B in China to build some conveyor belt wheels, marginally cheaper than company C. Company B's wheels subsequently broke, and company A contracted company C to fix the wheels, at a MASSIVE cost, would have been cheaper doing them from scratch, but time frames were an issue.

On another tangent, if i had kids leaving school at the moment, i wouldn't be encouraging them to go to uni... Get a trade, earn some dough, then figure out what you want to do. BUT, get a qual in something, anything.

 

[chops_a_must]

What exactly is a smart employee? One that can adapt to change (change!?!?! we can’t even contemplate a change to IR!) or a well educated employee?

The above quote reminds me of an ‘offshore’ recruiter who said Australians were too smart to be doing manual and processing work. We should be concentrating on being innovative! Nearly fell off my chair in hysterics.

Not everyone is cut out to come up with brilliant ideas, and most ideas are just that, they never eventuate into fruition. Probably explains why so many look to see what’s happening in the US and try and bring it here. Maybe we can classify John Sydmonds as innovative for going abroad to the US and ‘borrowing;’ their mortgage model he used for Aussie Home Loans.

Innovation is only half the problem, there are countless examples of lack of confidence from governments and private backers that has seen Aussie ingenuity end up filling the pockets of foreigners…black box recorder and the photocopier are in the legend status. Not that long ago, two Aussie writers came up with a screenplay for a low-budget slasher flick called ‘Saw’. Private backers of the film industry weren’t interested in this ‘sleeper’ that ended up offshore in Hollywood making it’s producers and backers a huge profit.

If by smart employee Rudd means a well educated one, well I don’t think that’s really going to sway a board of directors remaining here in Australia if the bottom line is being affected. Reduction in head count and cost cutting have more weight on an exec’s bonus being paid than say hiring the ‘smartest from the smart’

Firstly, to answer the quote in bold: Research indicates that education plays a crucial role as to where businesses will locate themselves. At the end of the day, wages play a small role in locations for head offices. If wages were an issue, head offices wouldn't have moved from Perth and Adelaide to Melbourne and Sydney in the 90s and early 00s. Wages were undeniably higher there (Sydney and Melbourne) then. So why did they move? Because that is where the most highly educated graduates are located.

Why do you think just about every major tech company in the world has their head office near Austin or in Silicon Vallley? It certainly isn't because, "wages are lower" but it is where the suitable graduates for the companies are located. If anything, I'd say Austin has some of the wealthiest paid workers in the world, so to me, wages are a furfy. Business head to where they can get abundant staff for the appropriate field.

The rest of your post ties in with my rant earlier about education levels not correlating with pay levels. In general terms, higher education = higher intelligence = higher creativity and innovation levels, which should in turn = higher pay. The fact that so many academically successful people have to go overseas to market products, to me shows the continual shunning of educated types in Australia. Maybe if Australian Unis were funded properly, they could help to market products that have largely been developed on their grounds ala Stanford, Yahoo and S.U.N. (Stanford University Network) Microsystems.

Someone saying you should only study something that gives you a job, is total crap. You can't help your natural skill set, be it language or science based. A lot of people who have studied something "practical" in high tech industries for instance, struggle to get adequate employment here in Australia. So I fail to understand that argument.

 

[The Mint Man]

Well Im sure most of you have already heared so I wont post it here as its quite long but heres the link: http://au.news.yahoo.com/070423/2/137md.html
Its about Kevin Rudds missus who is apparently ripping her workers off, how ironic

 

[Sprinter79]

ooo yeah. Doesn't look good huh. I'm not going to defend her actions except to say that she would have received advice from somewhere.

 

[somesortoftrader]

Expect to see alot more on this story.. I'm tipping Joe Hockey will go after her company. Cant wait to here Rudd on this issue, Wheezle!!

 

[The Mint Man]

Expect to see alot more on this story.. I'm tipping Joe Hockey will go after her company. Cant wait to here Rudd on this issue, Wheezle!!

I'll be watching question time at 2pm today on ABC just to see if it is mentioned, dunno if it will as there will be a investigation into this.

Also, I heared on 2GB earlier that the contracts in question were pre 'Work Choices'. That will make things interesting.
It will prove that IR reforms are just that, a reform to what was already in place.
Click here for reform http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/reform

Cheers

 

[Joe Blow]

Pfft, I can use colourful language if I want, you **** ***** ****** **** ******** hehehehe

Don't forget, I'm entitled to my opinion too, and can choose to express this opinion in a way I see fit :

Sprinter, just a reminder that although you are most definitely entitled to your opinion, at ASF we expect it be to expressed in a way that is respectful towards others. Please note the following section of the code of conduct:

All members will treat other members with the utmost respect at all times. This means insults, name calling, personal attacks and the abuse of other members in any way are strictly forbidden. Please, treat other members as you yourself would wish to be treated.

Lets keep it civil please.

 

[Sprinter79]

Duely noted, and ftr, there were no actual letters under those (*) in that post, it was just for effect

 

[Joe Blow]

Duely noted, and ftr, there were no actual letters under those (*) in that post, it was just for effect

I suspected you were being a bit tongue in cheek there but thought it was a good opportunity for a general reminder to all ASF members who pass through this thread, particularly the new ones.

Carry on!

 

[Sprinter79]

:bowdown:

 

[Sprinter79]

You reckon Labor party funding is dodgy? Check this out then...........

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=122475

Could just as easily belong in the "Is there a God?" thread :

 

[wayneL]

You reckon Labor party funding is dodgy? Check this out then...........

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=122475

Could just as easily belong in the "Is there a God?" thread :

Oooooh I've had business dealings with a company these clowns run.

Let's just say it was highly unsatisfactory and leave it at that. (I didn't know it was run by freaks until too late )

 

[Kimosabi]

Talking about Political Donation, here's the Chaser's take on Political Donations...

 

[mime]

Labor and the stockmarket

Does anyone think that if Kevin Rudd wins the election he'll increase tax on the the stock market similar to what the Labor states have done to property?

 

[chops_a_must]

Re: Labor and the stockmarket

Does anyone think that if Kevin Rudd wins the election he'll increase tax on the the stock market similar to what the Labor states have done to property?

No. It would adversely affect his wife's insider trading.

 

[sharechaser]

Re: Labor and the stockmarket

No. It would adversely affect his wife's insider trading.

Lol nice one chops. I don't know much about the influence of politics on the sharemarket, but if Labor were elected and reversed some of Howard's industrial relations policies, would that have much of an effect on shareprices of labour intensive industries such as resource/mining shares?