RU486 - so called "abortion pill"

[retroaugogo]

Bullmarket,

I wasn't referring to you.I think that you've been even handed.

I was referring to those that while debasing Tony Abbott for giving his views as ill considered and archaic basically because they follow catholic lines.

Somehow their opinions are considered,modern,humane and above all right.
They also follow basic humanistic dogma.

 

[son of baglimit]

retro - i realised your comments werent directed at bullmarket, but just maybe his upbringing, and beliefs, which often involve feelings of guilt & paranoia on all sorts of matters, got to him on this occasion......thats assuming he believes the dogma pumped out by the archaic beings within the vatican....if this is not correct i withdraw that comment.

bull - i have written many letters on many subjects, both to pollies, and various dept heads, on behalf of ourselves & others, on the constant struggle of people whose lives are destroyed with the hardship of raisings disabled children, attempting to provide them with some support. most fall on deaf ears, some get patronising replies, and some do get somewhat small results.

the decision last week is seen by many we have spoken too already as one of the greatest decisions made within parliament in recent years.

why - because many people i know have a great desire to have more children, but the fear they have in having another disabled child stops them in their tracks. the hardship they endure already leads to all sorts of emotional frustration, and another child with 'problems' will only send them over the edge.
the possibility of NOW being able to get pregnant, and after a scan showing severe abnormalities, not having to either go through a physically & emotionally painful abortion, but simply popping a pill & moving on to try again, WILL make a big difference to so many people out there.
and the funny thing is, some of these people are of the catholic belief, but whose attitude to abortion has changed when unfortunately 'blessed' with a disabled child - it gives them a different perspective on life.


IS THIS MESSAGE GETTING THROUGH ??

 

[Julia]

Bullmarket,

I wasn't referring to you.I think that you've been even handed.

I was referring to those that while debasing Tony Abbott for giving his views as ill considered and archaic basically because they follow catholic lines.

Somehow their opinions are considered,modern,humane and above all right.
They also follow basic humanistic dogma.

No one wants to deny Tony Abbott his views.


The problem occurs when those personally held views result in decisions which affect the lives of other people.


Julia

 

[Duckman#72]

I was referring to those that while debasing Tony Abbott for giving his views as ill considered and archaic basically because they follow catholic lines.

Somehow their opinions are considered,modern,humane and above all right.
They also follow basic humanistic dogma.

Well said Retro.

Critics are quick to throw out the line - "how do you tell the mother of a severely deformed child or the victim of a rape that they cannot have an abortion". In those tragic circumstances an abortion is a given.

However what percentage of abortions are due to these circumstances? I think Tony Abbott and his fellow crusaders are trying to suggest it will lead to more abortions, not from the unfortunate circumstances described above, but from average "Jack and Jill" couples who find themselves pregnant.

I don't very often agree with Bill Heffernan but in a couple of years time we might be having the same debate about RU 487 - the euthanasia pill. Do we hand that choice over to an "agency" to?

Bill Clinton is quoted as saying "abortions should be safe, legal and rare".

 

[bullmarket]

ok no problem retro

Bullmarket,

I wasn't referring to you.I think that you've been even handed.

I was referring to those that while debasing Tony Abbott for giving his views as ill considered and archaic basically because they follow catholic lines.

Somehow their opinions are considered,modern,humane and above all right.
They also follow basic humanistic dogma.

Your original post didn't appear, to me at least, to be addressed to anyone in particular and with you quoting Julia agreeing with sob I thought I was being included in those you aimed your post at.

I can't recall off the top of my head if you expressed views during the debate in this thread agreeing or disagreeing with me but thank you for at least recognising that I wasn't attempting to 'shovel' my views down anyone's throat as I posted earlier.

cheers

bullmarket

ps.......oooops..!!!...proof reading this post I see I should probably stop using the abbreviation 'sob' for 'son of baglimit' due to the obvious other connotations

 

[son of baglimit]

no offence taken bull - and i am glad you too have a sense of humour - its unfortunate that SOME are so blinded by their points of view that they cant sometimes sit back and just laugh.

not wanting to step on ya thread julia, but can i take this opportunity to close this thread and get on with making cash.

as always its been thought provoking...serious topic, but thought provoking.

 

[bullmarket]

No problem son of baglimit

no offence taken bull - and i am glad you too have a sense of humour - its unfortunate that SOME are so blinded by their points of view that they cant sometimes sit back and just laugh.

not wanting to step on ya thread julia, but can i take this opportunity to close this thread and get on with making cash.

as always its been thought provoking...serious topic, but thought provoking.

I haven't taken any offence either.........I just call things as I see them.

I still stand by every point/view I have made in all my earlier posts along with my supporting arguments as I haven't yet seen any verifiable information that proves anything I have said is wrong. No offence, but your saying you have written to whoever doesn't prove anything to me. Maybe you did, maybe you didn't but until I am proven wrong I will continue to exercise my 100% right to maintain the views I have expressed in all my earlier posts.

Having said that, since we are in a democracy I accept the will of the majority vote but I like everyone else who oppose the killing of other human beings do not have to agree with it.

So we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one

cheers

bullmarket

 

[wayneL]

attention tony abbott :

if i could find a picture of a hand with the middle finger extended and all the others closed, symbolising what i think of you, i would put it here.

a thankyou to those pollies who supported the idea of assisting those families ever burdened with the prospect of bringing up a severley disabled child and realising the severe cost it has on family life.

here endith the lesson.

SOB, Just look in the smilies list and you'll find this one: :fu:

or :321:

Cheers

 

[son of baglimit]

precisely bull - and i think as has been said, what offends so many of us is that so many with identical or similar thoughts to yours think it is THEIR right to dictate how our lives are determined.

DONT CALL THEM MURDERERS, DONT CALL THEM SELFISH.

LIVE A DAY/WEEK/MONTH/YEAR IN THE LIVES OF FAMILIES WITH DISABLED CHILDREN - for some there is no light at the end of the tunnel - every day is a nightmare, and that includes those, as i said before, who DONT have more kids for fear of having another nightmare.

thanks for the tip wayne - i'll remember that in the future when someone starts a thread on 1 of those 3 taboo subjects :

POLITICS, RELIGION, AND THE GREAT PUMPKIN.

 

[bullmarket]

hi again son of bag limit

I believe it is perfectly legitimate to see someone who chooses to kill an unborn human being, except in the case where the pregnancy is threatening the life of the mother, as a murderer (in the ethical/moral sense and obviously not in the legal). I did it in my first post in this thread and will do it again whenever I see fit. Just as you say others shouldn't dictate how people live their lives (and I agree), the same can be said that others shouldn't dictate what views I or others who agree with me should have or express.

We were were all embryos, foetuses etc at one stage of our lives and so killing an unborn child is undeniably killing another human being and hence murder in at least the ethical/moral sense imo.

But we covered all the scenarios in your last post earlier in this thread and we are now just rehashing previous views. I posted what the options are for parents when faced with handicapped/disabled children when Julia raised the issue.

The only issue is if people agree or not. Some will, some will not and that's the way it's always going to be.

Now, I'm not going to recopy and paste my earlier posts. If anyone is interested in what views I have expressed in earlier posts they can use the search tool. For me nothing has changed.

As I said earlier, I accept the will of the majority vote but I don't agree with it.

cheers

bullmarket

 

[rederob]

It's not common knowledge but another pill was aborted in favour of RU486.
In political circles it was known as the Darn Avail pill, but the TGA knew it as RUaWASP.
Cunning scientists had used nanotechnology to infuse caricatures of a prophet onto the pills active ingredients. If the active ingredients were attacked, the pill knew it had to go to work!
The difficulty of testing the efficacy of these pills on animals initially seemed insurmountable: Who would rats worship? In a strange twist of fate, a brilliant young scientist known to all as JC (and you think I am taking the p!$$, but it was just a contraction of Jim Clavell) realised they would instantly recognise George Segal. And it worked!
Quickly artists were contracted and produced caricature after caricature of prophets to be infused onto the RUaWASP pill. Only originals could be used as the “type cast” effect – avoided by Segal – was found to significantly diminish its effectiveness.
As the story goes, soon after approval for human use the process of “natural selection”, which was the catch cry of RUaWASP’s manufacturers, was found to be deficient.
Scientists were most concerned as there appeared nothing wrong with the ingredients, so they started examining the infused caricatures.
To their astonishment they found the cartoonists were misdirected, and had not drawn the Messiah: Instead, it was just a naughty boy.

 

[Ann]

Hello Rederob,

Most people would probably not know you as well as I. They probably don't realize you are trying to take the mick out of them....

Just be a bit careful. This is a very serious issue for a lot of people. Particularly in rural areas where there is very little access to decent health care or counseling.

If anyone has experienced the trauma of abortion or the turmoil of the decision, let them speak or forever hold their peace.

Anyone else should sit quietly and listen.

 

[rederob]

Ann
My Buddhist friends told me not to mention their prophet, so I did not.
They said if was known that there was a plan for peacenik vegetarians to rule the world, the CIA would be after me.

Ona serious note, I listened to a great deal of the parliamentary debate on the radio, live, as I was travelling a fair bit throughout country Queensland at the time.
I did not make an earlier contribution to this thread as, not being a woman, I felt it improper to discuss a matter that I might be sensitive to, but truly can never comprehend.
I respect the right of every woman to make decisions about their health as they see fit. Where these rights are impinged, we must have remedies for the implications. As the decision on the pill is now with the TGA, I pray they act in the interest of health.
Students of Australian history nowadays can read the most horrendous accounts of terminations, many self inflicted, that often ended the lives of both mother and child.
Medical practitioners are lawfully able to perform terminations in Australia, and if this procedure can be made safer, under professional guidance, we can only be better as a nation for it.

 

[Buster]

[Stuff Deleted]

I'd be really interested to know from everyone who takes an interest in this subject how you would have voted if you'd been a Senator today.

[More stuff deleted]

I'd be really interested to hear the views of members, male and female on this apparently controversial subject, and also the question to the blokes:

:"Do you think it should be a woman's right to choose what she does when faced with an unexpected pregnancy?"

Julia

I'm with you Julia. If a female suddenly finds herself packing a bellyfull of spare parts and wants nothing to do with it, why force it to happen? I would have thought that the last thing we need is another sad unwanted child growing up to wander the streets at all hours of the night, sucking up the welfare, and being able to use the 'unhappy abused childhood, society is to blame' cry when it turns up for it's day in court..

Pehaps they powers that be feel we need more kids in dumpsters, floating in rivers dressed in a plastic bag or rolled into a dam whilst fastened securely in the back seat..

I'm sure many will find my view simplistic, but hey, I for one am a fan of Occam's razor..

For info, I'm Married with two children, but I had them well before you got paid thousands to have them..

Regards,

Buster

 

[clowboy]

some light humor for this thread.

Got sent it in an email today and just had to post it. (hopefully it works)

Enjoy

Hmm file size is too large...700 only alows 150, any ideas how to post it?

 

[clowboy]

shrunk it

 

[emma]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/vote-no-cure-for-abortion-laws/2006/02/19/1140283944416.html

 

[Prospector]

Hm, thanks Emma and given that Mr Abbott now wants the church associations to provide the counselling services for pregnant women seeking abortion, the heavy guilts of the church are now to be put on to women having to make this decision.

 

[Julia]

Hm, thanks Emma and given that Mr Abbott now wants the church associations to provide the counselling services for pregnant women seeking abortion, the heavy guilts of the church are now to be put on to women having to make this decision.

I imagine that Mr Abbott's colleagues will make some changes to his suggestion that $60M in funding for counselling services should ALL go to the churches.
And he would have us believe that his religious affiliations and personal anti-choice beliefs do not affect his political decisions!!


Emma:
Thanks so much for posting that gorgeous photo. Says it all, really.


Julia

 

[Tisme]

New solution to old argument:

NEW YORK””Pro-life advocates celebrated approval of the new anti-abortion drug UR-86 by the Food and Drug Administration Tuesday, calling it a "safe and effective method" for

clicky here