Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sex Abuse

[basilio]

I think people are not aware of the wide range of sexual behaviours in the clergy. Obviously the focus on the Royal Commission has been child sexual abuse. But in the broader picture Bishops and fellow priests would recognise the following behaviours amongst their flock

1) Gay relationships sometimes between clergy sometimes with outsiders

2) Heterosexual Relationships between priests and many different women. They could be completely outside the church, housekeepers, casual relationships, sometimes prostitutes. This became even stickier if the other party was a parishioner. It became particularly dangerous when priests comforted recently deceased widows...

What was the church supposed to do with these situations ? Should they be expelled ? Sanctioned ? When ? Who by ? What would the effect be on the community if they heard about such behaviours ?

And finally How many religious people would be left if such sanctions were enforced ?

I raise this point because it does affect how the Church generally glossed over or ignored almost anything it could in this arena.

 

[SirRumpole]

I think people are not aware of the wide range of sexual behaviours in the clergy. Obviously the focus on the Royal Commission has been child sexual abuse. But in the broader picture Bishops and fellow priests would recognise the following behaviours amongst their flock

1) Gay relationships sometimes between clergy sometimes with outsiders

2) Heterosexual Relationships between priests and many different women. They could be completely outside the church, housekeepers, casual relationships, sometimes prostitutes. This became even stickier if the other party was a parishioner. It became particularly dangerous when priests comforted recently deceased widows...

What was the church supposed to do with these situations ? Should they be expelled ? Sanctioned ? When ? Who by ? What would the effect be on the community if they heard about such behaviours ?

And finally How many religious people would be left if such sanctions were enforced ?

I raise this point because it does affect how the Church generally glossed over or ignored almost anything it could in this arena.

When you say "The Church" I presume you are referring to Catholics mainly ?

The problems occur because their priests are unable to marry. Looking at Protestant churches, the problems are far less, although they probably have some discrepancies.

As to the action the Church should have taken with pedophiles, they should have supported the victims not the perps.

Did the church finance legal counsel for the defendants ? YES

Did they finance legal counsel for the victims ? NO.

That action has probably done more damage to the church than throwing the perps out would have done.

 

[Value Collector]

I think people are not aware of the wide range of sexual behaviours in the clergy. Obviously the focus on the Royal Commission has been child sexual abuse. But in the broader picture Bishops and fellow priests would recognise the following behaviours amongst their flock

1) Gay relationships sometimes between clergy sometimes with outsiders

2) Heterosexual Relationships between priests and many different women. They could be completely outside the church, housekeepers, casual relationships, sometimes prostitutes. This became even stickier if the other party was a parishioner. It became particularly dangerous when priests comforted recently deceased widows...

What was the church supposed to do with these situations ? Should they be expelled ? Sanctioned ? When ? Who by ? What would the effect be on the community if they heard about such behaviours ?

And finally How many religious people would be left if such sanctions were enforced ?

I raise this point because it does affect how the Church generally glossed over or ignored almost anything it could in this arena.

Those things aren't illegal or immoral, I couldn't careless if a priest broke a church rule and ate meat on Good friday, what I care about is the crimes, especially where innocent children were the victims.

If Pell was just covering up broken church rules eg a priest rooting a hooker, no one outside the church would give a crap, and there wouldn't be an rc, but he most likely helped cover up priests rooting little boys and girls, for this he should go to prison if found guilty.

 

[noco]

Whist I am not a Catholic, far from it, the emphasis on this child sex is mainly about Catholic Priests...

No mention in the Royal Commission about child abuse in the Aboriginal Communities and the Muslim community where girls of 10 and 11 years old are mutilated and often married off to older men falling pregnant at that very young age......

I would say that could possibly be more relevant with child abuse than the Catholic Church or is it a Marxist and Islamic plot to destroy the The Catholic religion and other minor religions as well?

 

[Tink]

I have already given my view on the shambles in Victoria.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/f...t=28209&page=6&p=898964&viewfull=1#post898964

What I hadn't said was that it also came from Brendan O'Neill - Royal Commissions
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/txt/s4273039.htm

I have also given my views on Christianity, our foundations, and the shaping of Western Civilization.
The Christian Worldview.
Life and Liberty
The Law etc.

The West as we know it, would not exist.

That is my view.

Religion, Science, Scepticism, Philosophy and things metaphysical
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27938&page=70

 

[Tisme]

The West as we know it, would not exist.

Not withstanding the big role catholicism played in its early days Tink, without the Anglican British Empire and its rule of law, the "west" would not exist. I suppose we could point to a Catholic nutter in George III allowing the British Colony in North America the opportunity to break away and rewrite human rights into law. which countries like Oz adopted in various ways.

 

[McLovin]

Just three words "wasn't much interested" are enough to sum up this Pell person.

Completely contemptible.

It sums up the Catholic Church. Even Pell's favourite fanboy Bolt has turned on him.

 

[Tisme]

No mention in the Royal Commission about child abuse in the Aboriginal Communities and the Muslim community where girls of 10 and 11 years old are mutilated and often married off to older men falling pregnant at that very young age......

I would say that could possibly be more relevant with child abuse than the Catholic Church or is it a Marxist and Islamic plot to destroy the The Catholic religion and other minor religions as well?

Shame you have to bookend your comments with the communistic bogies all the time, but insofar as the seriousness of Islamic mutilations and pubescent marriages I agree that the full weight of civilised law should be loaded on the barbarians so they are forced to play catchup with the evolution of the species.

 

[noco]

Shame you have to bookend your comments with the communistic bogies all the time, but insofar as the seriousness of Islamic mutilations and pubescent marriages I agree that the full weight of civilised law should be loaded on the barbarians so they are forced to play catchup with the evolution of the species.

It is a shame you don't educate your self into the Communistic intentions to destroy democracy in the Western World including their method of breaking down the morals of children and young teenagers with pornographic material and absurd sex education in schools.

 

[Tisme]

It is a shame you don't educate your self into the Communistic intentions to destroy democracy in the Western World including their method of breaking down the morals of children and young teenagers with pornographic material and absurd sex education in schools.

Enough of the blather Noco. The labels are so 1950s scare mongering.

Let's look at the communist countries:

no sanctioned trade unions
no state sanctioned homosexual marriages
no tolerance of kiddie fiddlers
no tolerance of islamists
no andrew bolts
enormous capitalism and investment
full employment
rising standard of living.

Let's look at Oz under a Liberal Govt:

Private investment gone negative
Public expenditure increasing at a greater rate
Cross party support for homosexual marriages
Legalised pot in places
Tolerance of Islamic voodoo
Andrew Bolt
Did I say relatively zip private investment
Real unemployment 9.2%
Falling standard of living

.
When Australians start talking about moving to NZ, there's a problem Houston

 

[Value Collector]

I have also given my views on Christianity, our foundations, and the shaping of Western Civilization.
The Christian Worldview.

Yes yes Tink, we all know you long for a past era of good Christian values, where nothing was wrong, and all was rosie. the church was good, marriages were happy and teenage pregnancy didn't exist.

The reality is all wasn't rosie, your church leaders were screwing little boys and girls and covering it up, they were pressuring women to stay in bad marriages, refusing to teach kids about contraception and instead forcing girls out of town to give birth and then stealing their babies or making them marry etc.

Your Pleasantville view of our past is nothing but a façade that's falling down as we speak.

 

[noco]

Enough of the blather Noco. The labels are so 1950s scare mongering.

Let's look at the communist countries:

no sanctioned trade unions
no state sanctioned homosexual marriages
no tolerance of kiddie fiddlers
no tolerance of islamists
no andrew bolts
enormous capitalism and investment
full employment
rising standard of living.

Let's look at Oz under a Liberal Govt:

Private investment gone negative
Public expenditure increasing at a greater rate
Cross party support for homosexual marriages
Legalised pot in places
Tolerance of Islamic voodoo
Andrew Bolt
Did I say relatively zip private investment
Real unemployment 9.2%
Falling standard of living

.
When Australians start talking about moving to NZ, there's a problem Houston

Well, if all those items sound like goodies to you, why don't you move to a Communist Country?

You don't seem to be happy living in Australia...You are always so critical about our living standards here....

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't you originally leave a communist country?......If you did why did you leave?...Maybe you should go back from where you came.

 

[Tisme]

When I was a kid way back in the dark ages, my mother made sure none of us were allowed alone with any adult, especially a solitary male.

I'm wondering how any mothers/carers could leave their own kids with a priest that belongs to a religion that has a long historical word of mouth reputation for homosexual pedophilia and leaving a staff at the door of someone else's wife. Sure it was said in a joking choir/alter boy narrative, but we all knew there was substance behind it.

Even books like Sex, Priests and Secret Codes points to it being a 2000 year tradition in the Catholic Church.

Taking young men into a priesthood and denying them the exposure to normalised maturation is just asking for abhorent behaviours as they seek out sexual satisfaction and gratification that have been denied them via normal, as God intended, hetrosexual coupling.

Where was the state in all this and why did they allow Canon Law to dilute their responsibility? This is the same kind of nonsense we are in fear of with the Muslims and their push for Sharia Law within our codes. Where was the state when these young men were forced to endure deprivation in favour of religion in a secular society?

 

[basilio]

First Dog on the Moon has skewered and slow roasted Cardinal Pell through his own lips.

George Pell: They didn't tell me because they were worried I might ask difficult questions

While the rape and torture of hundreds of children swirled around him, a monstrous wailing storm of blood and terror and unimaginable sin ... Pell heard nothing

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-were-worried-i-might-ask-difficult-questions

______________________________________________________________________

I made a broader observation in an earlier post on the range of other sexual activities of priests. It is a significant issue because at any one time The Archbishop is dealing with a number of incidents involving priests, parishoners, non parishioners and sometimes relationships between clergy.

My understanding was that little of this was documented or if it was, it was carefully screened. Certainly under Archbishop Frank Little the main edict was Don't tell, Don't ask.

This created a strained and hypocritical façade to Church dealings with almost all internal moral questions. The denials and cover ups of child sex abuse were just an extension of this behaviour.

Roman Catholic clerical culture favors doctrinal rigidity, conformity, obedience, submission and psychosexual immaturity, mistaken for innocence, in its candidates. These are the personality elements that lead to advancement and power in the clerical system. Single men are more easily controlled if their sexuality is secret. Double lives on all levels of clerical life are tolerated if they do not cause scandal or raise legal problems. Sexual activity between bishops and priests and adult partners is well known within clerical circles. The secret system forms a comfortable refuge for unresolved gay conflicts. There is a new emerging awareness of the systemic nature of sexual/celibate behavior within the Roman Catholic ministry that is increasingly destabilizing to the church.

Dire consequences will follow the exposure of this sexual system embedded in a secret celibate culture. Authorities who are or have been sexually active, although not with minors, are hard put to publicly correct clerics who are abusing minors. The need for secrecy, the cover-up, extends beyond defending criminal activity of a sex abuser. The power and control that holds the Roman Catholic church together depends on preservation of the celibate myth. The Vatican and Pope John Paul II declared its inviolability.

http://ncronline.org/blogs/examining-crisis/secret-sex-celibate-system

 

[Tisme]

Well, if all those items sound like goodies to you, why don't you move to a Communist Country?

You don't seem to be happy living in Australia...You are always so critical about our living standards here....

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't you originally leave a communist country?......If you did why did you leave?...Maybe you should go back from where you came.

I can't imagine the hate that has filled your core Noco ... it so patently affects your comprehension of the world and people around you.

You know well and truely that I am descendent of first settlers because i has posted same and as much as you try to avoid eye contact you do read my posts, thus the rage inside you when I poke you.

Let's try this on with your same argument: if you don't like what someone with early settler pedigree, thus more ownership than you, then you should rack off to where you came from, which I assume is England given your penchant for superior opinions over dinky di Aussies.

You may not be familiar with us old Australian Families motto espoused so eloquently by Mary Gilmore:


"I am he

Who paved the way,

That you might walk

At your ease today;

I split the rock;

I felled the tree,

The nation was””

Because of me!

"

 

[SirRumpole]

I can't imagine the hate that has filled your core Noco ... it so patently affects your comprehension of the world and people around you.

You know well and truely that I am descendent of first settlers because i has posted same and as much as you try to avoid eye contact you do read my posts, thus the rage inside you when I poke you.

Let's try this on with your same argument: if you don't like what someone with early settler pedigree, thus more ownership than you, then you should rack off to where you came from, which I assume is England given your penchant for superior opinions over dinky di Aussies.

You may not be familiar with us old Australian Families motto espoused so eloquently by Mary Gilmore:


"I am he

Who paved the way,

That you might walk

At your ease today;

I split the rock;

I felled the tree,

The nation was””

Because of me!

"

Careful, there may be Greens in them thar hills.

 

[luutzu]

I can't imagine the hate that has filled your core Noco ... it so patently affects your comprehension of the world and people around you.

You know well and truely that I am descendent of first settlers because i has posted same and as much as you try to avoid eye contact you do read my posts, thus the rage inside you when I poke you.

Let's try this on with your same argument: if you don't like what someone with early settler pedigree, thus more ownership than you, then you should rack off to where you came from, which I assume is England given your penchant for superior opinions over dinky di Aussies.

You may not be familiar with us old Australian Families motto espoused so eloquently by Mary Gilmore:


"I am he

Who paved the way,

That you might walk

At your ease today;

I split the rock;

I felled the tree,

The nation was””

Because of me!

"

Ya commies! Noco might be right you Red Irish - First Fleet or otherwise.

Fell trees and pave roads for the public to use; build nations and... "dislocate" the natives. Only a part of that was Capitalism (imperialism?)

 

[Tisme]

Ya commies! Noco might be right you Red Irish - First Fleet or otherwise.

Fell trees and pave roads for the public to use; build nations and... "dislocate" the natives. Only a part of that was Capitalism (imperialism?)

Don't you start!!

 

[basilio]

To go back to the Topic at hand.

There is an exceptionally well written website which explores sexual behaviour in the Catholic Church. The auther was a Benedictine monk for 18 years so he has an insiders understanding of the situation. He is also a psychologist which brings another perspective to the issue.

Well worth a read.

http://www.awrsipe.com/Click_and_Learn/REVISION of CODE WORDS TO HIDE SEX ABUSE 1.pdf

"Code words to hide sex abuse"

 

[SirRumpole]

To go back to the Topic at hand.

There is an exceptionally well written website which explores sexual behaviour in the Catholic Church. The auther was a Benedictine monk for 18 years so he has an insiders understanding of the situation. He is also a psychologist which brings another perspective to the issue.

Well worth a read.

http://www.awrsipe.com/Click_and_Learn/REVISION of CODE WORDS TO HIDE SEX ABUSE 1.pdf

"Code words to hide sex abuse"

The question is why are there so many pedohiles in the C.C. ?

The cloistered atmosphere, access to children and air of authority provided to priests provides fertile ground for peddos to indulge their fantasies and get paid for it as well.

I don't see anything to suggest that the RCC has put in any processes to weed these people out. Until they do I don't know why decent people associate with them.