wayneL
VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!
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- 9 July 2004
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Utter bunkum, and reflective of your poor grasp of the matter.Climate realists will enjoy this blog http://nofrakkingconsensus.blogspot.com/
Latest posts focus on the poverty of proper scientific method in the IPCC's latest political manifesto, and the damage to the credibility of science in the field.
Utter bunkum, and reflective of your poor grasp of the matter.
The simple reality is that those fighting against global warming cannot argue the science itself, and instead take cheap shots at aspects of a massive report that is flawed only in reference to Himalayan glacial melts - a section that failed the editing process through human error.
Mr L has seems unable to understand that the process of presenting a report that synthesises thousands of scientific papers is absolutely different from the precise material in any single paper.
From the numerous posts I have seen from Mr L I cannot say that I am surprised.
I simply, and repeatedly, ask that you present the science - and you consistently fail. I have separately asked that you back up some of your claims, but again you do not.Thanks Mikel, as you say, that's just one.
In Rederob's (sneak'n) keenness to fulfil his juvenile vendetta, he has exposed his own glaring lack of understanding and intellectual integrity.
This is a view that is held by those who do not understand the science, ignore the science, or prefer other agendas.To attempt to deny that the IPCC's credibility has been massively and injuriously damaged in recent months is bordering on the pathological. One need only see the avalanching opinion polls to jolt one's self up from that dreamworld.
Your evidence for this is where?There is more than the issue about whether the science is right or wrong, it is also about the integrity of the conduct of climate science and associated vested interest agendas.
The agenda of those railing against warming is to use any and every opportunity to pump the media with a news that distorts the actual science, cherry picks, or is simply a beat up. So the real culprits destroying public credibility in environmental matters are the opposite of those you suggest.Furthermore, by the inevitable exposure of the fraudulent self interested alarmism on the co2 front, they may have irretrievably damaged the possibility of addressing other valid sustainability issues. The public simply is losing/has lost trust in environmental science and that is a real tragedy.
I play the substantiation game. Prove your case.That rederob doesn't seem to realise these things, while pulling the old "play the man" card again, is not only tiresome and boring, but one must worry for his grasp of reality. (Parry and counterpunch is fair play in that game Red).
And you don't play the man!I can safely say that we can ignore the pseudo-intellectual pontifications of rederob as we do those of any cult member and get back to the topic of the thread - countering the alarmist hysteria promulgated by those who seek to profit from it.
I won't waste space requoting Wayne's last post.
All that has to be done now to complete the work of debunking the concepts of man induced climate change is
1) Rewriting the basic tenets of science on the role of CO2 and other green house gases in retaining atmospheric warmth
2) Persuading all the plants and animals that have responded to fundamental changes in temperature that they have it wrong.
3) Negotiating with a few million cubic Klms of ice in Greenland and Antarticia to stay frozen because some cynical PR hack is questioning the footnotes in a 3000 IPCC page report.
You can't B/S nature. The rest of us can be conned by unscrupulous interests and our own innate desire to not want to believe very unsettling facts.
Which is a the main reason for the spectacular success of the groups that have systematically destroyed respect for our international scientific community in the past few months.
Say huh??????? The basic tenets of chaotic systems are mathematics. Of course the phrase applies.We all know climate changes, but should I remind you of the fact that the phrase "basic tenets" cannot apply to chaotic systems.
The warming effect of co2 is logarithmic for instance, a peculiarity that alarmists pointedly neglect to reveal. This is a point that has been raised before here and seredipidously revisited by David Archibald. Instead they make inferences that it is exponential. Total intellectual corruption.
The hysteria is born out of climate change denial zealots who beat up whatever they can to get traction.
The science upholding man's role in warming justs gets stronger.
You are entitled to your view, but what supports it?I think the IPCC has overstated the case of man made global warming.
Do you, Sneak'n and Basilio, consider that the processes for compiling the IPCC summaries, as described in the example of my last post, are done in a scientific and open manner?
Written before sighting Wayne's last post, but unsurprisingly in sync with it.
You might like to explain how we can determine the temperature on other planets by knowing their atmospheric composition and the energy received from the sun at the distance of their orbit. How is that common sense?I think common sense is a better guide than "the science".
Given that I seek responses from you, it's a bit rich suggesting I am retreating to any sort of argument. Exactly what could I be arguing against?Rederob,
You're just sounding shrill now, retreating to a argument where only "true believers" can believe they have any argumentative point.
Fail.
You might like to explain...
Assuming they are known, measurable and replicatable under all conditions. Photosynthesis efficiency increases when minute amounts of extra CO2 is available in the atmosphere; so from what I've read, even this basic tenet is not exact.1) Rewriting the basic tenets of science on the role of CO2 and other green house gases in retaining atmospheric warmth
There are tenets, but they are not basic.Say huh??????? The basic tenets of chaotic systems are mathematics. Of course the phrase applies.
However, the application of the phrase "chaotic systems" to climate is doubtful. Chaos tends to overwhelm weather predictions quite quickly, but weather is not climate and weather models and not climate models.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/11/chaos-and-climate/
Wayne, Watts is not a reliable guide to science or mathematics. He might point to something interesting or useful, but you won't know unless you follow it up with more reliable sources.
Ghoti (who hasn't read anything on this thread except the last post for a couple of days, and doesn't know what Wayne thinks he's talking about this time, but is sick of doing hours of follow up on garbage links.)
You are one of many sucked in to thinking that all references in the IPCC report are to scientific papers that have been peer reviewed.That's a bit bloody rich talking about rubbish links when the more than half IPCC position is predicated on non peer reviewed junk; the purportedly peer reviewed portion being revealed as highly questionable.
You are one of many sucked in to thinking that all references in the IPCC report are to scientific papers that have been peer reviewed.
They are not.
The scientific papers that that underpinned the Report were peer reviewed and/or re-reviewed by each of the teams that wrote the many sections. Thousands of climate scientists were involved, and it is true that not all agreed on what eventually made it into the report.
Assertions that the science is junk have no substance, so if you have reliable peer reviewed literature to the contrary I welcome reading it.
Back to Donna Laframboisee blog. Pachauri's remarks were (and mostly remain) contexted on the science that underpins the Report, rather than the data/analysis that informs in other sections. To establish a project that looks for peer review of papers that essentially inform us about a range of ancillary issues - such as transportation - is not useful.
For example, Duoba, Lohse-Busch, and Bohn's 2005 paper, "Investigating Vehicle Fuel Economy Robustness of Conventional and Hybrid Electric Vehicles", was a paper presented at an electric vehicle congress held in Monaco. It has nothing to do with climate change science. However, like most (I haven't looked at every paper) cited sources it has been aired in relevant forums and/or published in associated industry journals and the like.
When I look at the multitude of issues that deniers of climate change present, the missing ingredient is always the science. There is a very good reason for that. The overwhelming weight of evidence suggests the IPCC got it right.
Your evidence to the contrary is found where?And your final paragraph reveals the seething unreasonableness scarcely disguised in a cloak of glibness.
The highlighted excerpts, are just not accurate.
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