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David Attenborough has always had an open mind!!
But he has always had a handbrake on his personal opinion.
Religion, Science, Scepticism, Philosophy and things metaphysical
- Thread starter bellenuit
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David Attenborough has always had an open mind!!
But he has always had a handbrake on his personal opinion.
CanOz
Home runs feel good, but base hits pay bills!
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That would be God, the creator!
"omniscience (infinite knowledge), omnipotence (unlimited power), omnipresence (present everywhere), omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence"
... but can't prevent war!
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Correct Ruby. Many of us do not believe in God because we do not accept the evidence put forward, but are open to there being a God if we see something that would convince us. God, as revealed through the various Holy Books, just doesn't cut it for most rational people. If he wanted to reveal himself to us, there are a million better and more effective ways that he could have done it.
I do not accept creation as the first step prior to evolution taking over as that would imply I also accept that there is a God of sorts. However, should I be convinced that there is a God, then creation becomes a plausible explanation of the first existence of life, but it would not in anyway detract from evolution as the process from there (unless one also learns that the God deliberately set out to fool us).
Not believing that creation was the first step leads us to what other possibilities there may be. Abiogenesis as espoused by scientists is one explanation, as is life coming from some alien meteor (though that too would require an explanation of how it came into being).
However, IMO these are all just speculations at present and, along with creation, are a just placeholders until either stronger proof is forthcoming or a better explanation is forthcoming.
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Something that may be worth sharing with your Facebook friends if you are constantly bombarded with "incredible" stories that must be true because they also came across it on Facebook.
Stopping the Spread of Phoney Info on Social Media
http://notable.ca/nationwide/yp-life/Stopping-the-Spread-of-Phoney-Info-on-Social-Media/
Stopping the Spread of Phoney Info on Social Media
http://notable.ca/nationwide/yp-life/Stopping-the-Spread-of-Phoney-Info-on-Social-Media/
That's a very long bow to draw! Have there been any cases of spontaneous bleeding with the creation of open wounds reported? Apart from random nose bleeds that I used to suffer from when young, Hematohidrosis is the only thing that comes close, but that is bleeding through the skin and doesn't involve the creation of open wounds. Our minds are capable of some amazing things but I would need to see some hard evidence before I would believe that someone could create, on cue, bleeding open wounds and then heal them up over night.
So you are happy to accept that there might be a higher mind (ie God) that started things off in the beginning, but you don't accept that this "higher mind" is capable of causing hard, or impossible, to explain events?
No it isn't. I saw nothing to suggest that the wounds were self-inflicted. That is your assumption because that's what you want to believe and no amount of video proof would satisfy you to the contrary. You want to believe it was a cheap illusionist trick and even if she had been strapped naked to a table and filmed from every conceivable angle, you would still find an excuse to call it a fake. I'm glad they didn't resort to that because I think the woman is entitled to some dignity.
An atheist is someone who does not believe in God and believes that no deities exist. If you don't want to believe in "my God" or subscribe to Christian beliefs, that's fine, I won't take that personally, and you can believe what you want. The fact that you are happy to accept that there might be a higher mind that started things off in the beginning is good, and you agree with me on that.
Ahhh yes .... but who created the first turtle?
Yes, and when we see the sort of corrosive reaction thinking outside the box attracts from the skeptics and atheists, I don't blame him!
Research "entropy" and "enthalpy".
Do you understand the concept of "free will"?
Bellenuit, you still don't get it.
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Bellenuit, you still don't get it.
Perhaps if you listen to what we say rather than telling us (atheists) what we believe as you have done in several posts over the last few days, you might get it.
I wrote: Many of us do not believe in God because we do not accept the evidence put forward, but are open to there being a God if we see something that would convince us.
Since I seem to be deficient in logic or intelligence in your mind, what is wrong with that statement that you think I still don't get it?
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The concept of "free will" is what I used to get my mother, a devout catholic, off my back.
Nothing else seemed to work.
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Did you not consider tattooing 666 on your forehead and wearing an inverted crucifix?
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I had an album by Black Sabbath. The cover art work featured a black cross. She burnt it.
As for a tattoo, I would still have it after she passed on.
Don't get me wrong, I loved my mum!
Just not her religion or evangelical hammering.
I hate evangelists with a passion!
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It sounds like you're evangelising!! No need to hate yourself burglar, we all think you're cool!
I have no idea, but that is not what I said.
Again, that is not what I said; however I think it would be quite easy to do it on cue if you inflict the wounds yourself.
Again....... read what I wrote. I did not say it was what I believe. I said "many people". I said my mind was open to the paranormal, and that I accept there are many things for which we, as yet, have no explanation. Stop misquoting me.
Hmm! Now you are drawing the long bow!! You saw nothing to suggest the wounds were NOT self inflicted. I want to believe what my eyes see and what my rational mind tells me. And........ wrong again! Video proof of the wounds appearing spontaneously would satisfy me that they had appeared spontaneously - nothing else. Calm down Chris - you don't know what I would think or say given the unappetising scene you describe.
Again........ I did not say that is what I believe. Get your facts straight. My mind is open to all sorts of things. Science is making new discoveries all the time. Why don't you try and be a little more open minded and stop trying to tell me what I believe? You are very fond of taking small statements that I (or others) make and extrapolating them to mean something entirely different.
Bellenuit, I certainly don't think you are deficient in intelligence, but I think you are hamstrung by your demand for logical, convincing, irrefutable proof of everything. Generally that is a good thing, but sometimes you have to think outside the box and use your imagination.
If Einstein had stuck strictly to proven established facts and hadn't allowed his imagination to contemplate mind bending new concepts, how far would he have progressed with his Theory of Relativity?
If the guys who created String Theory in the mid-80s (or whenever), had stuck strictly to proven established facts, how much progress would they have made? Logic dictates that there are only four dimensions of space-time. How can there possibly be any more?
I'll run the risk of drawing the half-wits out of the woodwork to post their idiotic trolling comments one more time, so let me get in first and say I'm just a demented old fart who has completely lost his marbles and has stopped taking his medication, and I'm probably completely wrong and you're completely right. There!
ld:And please don't even think of pulling this post apart line by line with your "non sequitur" stuff etc. Just take it or leave it!
It seems to me that the prerequisite for making sense of this whole picture is accepting, without the prior need for convincing, irrefutable proof, M-theory, multiverses, reincarnation etc. Hopefully, as has happened with Relativity, proof of these theories might emerge later.
If you can accept the mind bending possibility that another universe exists in higher, as yet unknown, dimensions, and that intelligent life NOT as we know it exists in that universe, then the Biblical story starts to make sense, at least it does to me, but it requires some imagination and the ability to see the forest beyond the trees, plus some understanding of the Bible, which I'm guessing many don't have.
If you can accept the idea of intelligent life outside our universe, then can you accept that we are part of some elaborate experiment being conducted by two powerful entities in that universe?
Think of us being like laboratory mice being used to test a psychological theory in a very elaborate laboratory experiment. Size is relative and if you bothered to watch "How Small is the Universe?" you would be aware that our entire universe could be as small as a grain of sand, or perhaps a Petri Dish, to another being. Time is also relative and billions of years to us could be but a few weeks to them.
So my demented, marbleless, non-medicated idea, based upon what is written in the Bible, is that I think we are part of an experiment being conducted by God and Satan, maybe to see who should rule their universe, or something. God gave us free will to choose between good (God's will) and evil (Satan's will) and it's a battle for our hearts and minds. It's a test so there will never be any proof that either God or Satan exists, otherwise there would be no point to the experiment, which is the point I've been trying to make.
Google "who is Satan and where did he come from" for more information.
If none of that makes sense to you, then so be it ... it makes sense to me, but remember, I'm just completely :screwy:
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Touché mon ami.
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Well done for expressing your views, Chris, food for thought for many, and the good thing about this thread.
Btw, thanks burglar and cynic for the comments at the start..
Religion and Science to me are both important, and both play a major role in working together. They come from different angles, but both provide plenty in society.
I like to see the balance of both.
Btw, thanks burglar and cynic for the comments at the start..
Religion and Science to me are both important, and both play a major role in working together. They come from different angles, but both provide plenty in society.
I like to see the balance of both.
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One of the poorest and most commonly used arguments against the existence of a God is:
"Why do bad things happen to good people?" or "Why can't God prevent war?" (as mentioned just before)
It is important to understand the concept of free will (as mentioned in response).
Either
1.
We are given a free will.
Maybe most important because it allows us to love. Love has to be a choice not something we are forced to do like a robot.
If we have a free will we are able to "choose" to do good. But then we can also "choose" to do evil.
Living in this world where we interact with one another, the bad choices of some will impact the innocent.
This is unavoidable.
2.
We are given no free will.
We are essentially robots.
God makes us like what he likes. Worship him without choice. We love him, but not by choice.
We have world peace. Not because we are peaceful. But because we are puppets with no choice to do otherwise.
There is no love. We cannot choose it. We are forced to love.
This is a dilema.......
"This isn't fair for the innocent" some may ask.
As mentioned above, because of free will the problems of this world are unavoidable.
God does not promise justice in this world.
But He does provide ultimate justice though in eternity, where "good" wins the day!
He loves us so much that he has provided a way out (at great cost to him).
And what is best this free gift is open to ANYONE who wants to accept it. There is no exclusivity.
"Why do bad things happen to good people?" or "Why can't God prevent war?" (as mentioned just before)
It is important to understand the concept of free will (as mentioned in response).
Either
1.
We are given a free will.
Maybe most important because it allows us to love. Love has to be a choice not something we are forced to do like a robot.
If we have a free will we are able to "choose" to do good. But then we can also "choose" to do evil.
Living in this world where we interact with one another, the bad choices of some will impact the innocent.
This is unavoidable.
2.
We are given no free will.
We are essentially robots.
God makes us like what he likes. Worship him without choice. We love him, but not by choice.
We have world peace. Not because we are peaceful. But because we are puppets with no choice to do otherwise.
There is no love. We cannot choose it. We are forced to love.
This is a dilema.......
"This isn't fair for the innocent" some may ask.
As mentioned above, because of free will the problems of this world are unavoidable.
God does not promise justice in this world.
But He does provide ultimate justice though in eternity, where "good" wins the day!
He loves us so much that he has provided a way out (at great cost to him).
And what is best this free gift is open to ANYONE who wants to accept it. There is no exclusivity.
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Except that you have to follow that particular faith based belief system. Not sure how many Christians believe Muslims will head off to eternal bliss, likewise I'm sure the infidels get what they deserve in the afterlife according to the Muslims.
We've chosen to make what was really a simple choice into a very complex one.
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Yes, there are many religions and philosophies.
But there is only one who was prophesied about specifically, came to earth, lived a sinless life, predicted his death, died, rose from the dead, and appeared to eye witnesses.
The historical evidence of the resurrection is completely overwhelming.
I have no doubt that most who don't believe have chosen to not even consider the evidence of then resurrection.
People are entitled to use their free will to do that if they choose. But there is no shortage of evidence there for those genuine seekers of truth.
Maybe I could post up a summary of the evidence when I'm at home.
Everyone has the choice though.
It's like this...
It's raining outside. There are infinite umbrellas inside. One takes an umbrella and goes out. He calls out to the others "no one has to get wet. Come on let's go!"
Other say "yeh but what if we don't want to take an umbrella? We will get wet then."
We all have a date with death.
Christ is the only one who has provided a solution AND proven his reliability.
But there is only one who was prophesied about specifically, came to earth, lived a sinless life, predicted his death, died, rose from the dead, and appeared to eye witnesses.
The historical evidence of the resurrection is completely overwhelming.
I have no doubt that most who don't believe have chosen to not even consider the evidence of then resurrection.
People are entitled to use their free will to do that if they choose. But there is no shortage of evidence there for those genuine seekers of truth.
Maybe I could post up a summary of the evidence when I'm at home.
Everyone has the choice though.
It's like this...
It's raining outside. There are infinite umbrellas inside. One takes an umbrella and goes out. He calls out to the others "no one has to get wet. Come on let's go!"
Other say "yeh but what if we don't want to take an umbrella? We will get wet then."
We all have a date with death.
Christ is the only one who has provided a solution AND proven his reliability.
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Your recollections of Christ are very different to mine!
What's wrong with just sharing some wise and peaceful teachings? (Isn't that what Christ would have wanted?)
Do you really need to claim that one religion holds a monopoly on truth?