Value Collector
Have courage, and be kind.
- Joined
- 13 January 2014
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you are mistaking terms there,
the are against your absolute morality of your church, but no necessarily immoral in tregards to objective morality.
you are mistaking terms there,These kinds of sexual things are also against that objective morality, imv. They represent a misuse of sexuality, since it isn't open to life (part of God's purpose for it). And they tend to go against nature. Also, I believe they take away that inner tranquility we're meant to feel within.
I don't recall instruction where God tells them to rape.
Yes they are (immoral) in regards to objective morality. Objective morality is founded on God , so it's wrong. As I explained before, whole point of sexual activity is not just pleasure but reproduction as well (must be open to life). So it's a misuse of sexuality, and causes problems (e.g. perversion makes people enjoy intercourse less, so they do unnatural things for fun, or become addicted etc). I'm just explaining. And it makes sense, because if you're God, then you designed sexual activity not just for pleasure. The culture has changed now, but don't get sucked in thinking it's any good for you.you are mistaking terms there,
the are against your absolute morality of your church, but no necessarily immoral in tregards to objective morality.
u know where that verse is, so i can see?why else would they be instructed to kill the men and boys and non virgin women, but keep the virgin women?
u know where that verse is, so i can see?
But regards the 'genocides', technically they're not genocides. I'm not going to try to explain why God did that since I don't know everything, but they were highly evil
Numbers 31.15-18u know where that verse is, so i can see?
Objective morality is founded on God
You are describing absolute morality here, not objective morality.Yes they are (immoral) in regards to objective morality. Objective morality is founded on God , so it's wrong. As I explained before, whole point of sexual activity is not just pleasure but reproduction as well (must be open to life). So it's a misuse of sexuality, and causes problems (e.g. perversion makes people enjoy intercourse less, so they do unnatural things for fun, or become addicted etc). I'm just explaining. And it makes sense, because if you're God, then you designed sexual activity not just for pleasure. The culture has changed now, but don't get sucked in thinking it's any good for you.
I think the Bible just bashes back
with the counter boredom?
I'll take a look at some of those verses and get back. I don't know everything about the OT. Just musing though, consider the verse in the NT, “..let he who is without sin cast the first stone..”. So God is able to punish it would seem to me if He wants to, since He is without sin. He has the right to kill. This would seem immoral to you, but I think that is because your morality, as others have pointed out, is based on Christian morality (being merciful). But you also mentioned cases where innocents are punished, so I'll take a look.Regarding the bible, this is an apt quote from Mark Twain and illustrates the absurdity of referring to it as a source of objective morality, not to mention perfect morality:
The Christian's Bible is a drug store. Its contents remain the same; but the medical practice changes...The world has corrected the Bible. The church never corrects it; and also never fails to drop in at the tail of the procession- and take the credit of the correction. During many ages there were witches. The Bible said so. the Bible commanded that they should not be allowed to live. Therefore the Church, after eight hundred years, gathered up its halters, thumb-screws, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood.
Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. One does not know whether to laugh or to cry.....There are no witches. The witch text remains; only the practice has changed. Hell fire is gone, but the text remains. Infant damnation is gone, but the text remains. More than two hundred death penalties are gone from the law books, but the texts that authorized them remain.
The following chapter, says pretty much all that I feel needs to be said, about the witchhunting antics, permeating the last couple of pages of postings to this thread:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7:1-7&version=KJV
Really!Nothing Christians hate more than having the Bible quoted to them.
I wouldn't be too phased by this OT one. It's something to do with the times, and they were executing justice to some extent as well, and they were a barbarous people. will scoop some of those other verses soon enough.(Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded. “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
Some more of your God's objective morality...
Rape:
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
Rape and Slavery
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
More Rape
“When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive’s garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."(Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
Rape of other mens' wives and murder of innocents.
Thus says the Lord: ‘I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.’
Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan answered David: “The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die.”(2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)
This is the God upon whom your objective morality is founded. Maybe you should read the Bible rather than listen to apologists like William Craig. I can't recall who said it, but it goes like: if you want to make someone an atheist, ask them to read the bible.
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