Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Religion IS crazy!

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Value Collector said:
Yeah, shareholders are only one part, but it's their money that must be invested to grow companies and provide services into the economy that we need, in any given project, they are the first to have to lay out money and the last to get paid, and they bear the brunt of project and investment risk.

without shareholders willing to continually reinvest their earnings to grow companies, conduct research, explore for resources, and start risky new ventures, we wouldn't have the standard of living we have, the fact that it is probably greed that leads people to do these things is fine, as I said gluttony is the "sin" not greed.
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I think SirR would agree with you there, as would most of us, about companies and shareholders putting up their capital, taking the risks to provide research and develop great products/services to add value to consumers and the world... Yes, by all mean reward them for that, make them all rich because we too get value from them.

But the "greedy" capitalism I think we all disdain is the abuse of market and competition; of doing not much more of anything but wanting more and more pay. Not paying their fair share in taxes; playing politics and get the game rigged.
 
luutzu said:
I think SirR would agree with you there, as would most of us, about companies and shareholders putting up their capital, taking the risks to provide research and develop great products/services to add value to consumers and the world... Yes, by all mean reward them for that, make them all rich because we too get value from them.

But the "greedy" capitalism I think we all disdain is the abuse of market and competition; of doing not much more of anything but wanting more and more pay. Not paying their fair share in taxes; playing politics and get the game rigged.
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Actually I don't think that there is all that much "risk capital" in Australia. Almost everything innovative that we do (apart from the Victa mower and the Hills Hoist) gets developed overseas and then sold back to us.

It's been acknowledged that we are big in innovation but small in commercialisation.
 
SirRumpole said:
Actually I don't think that there is all that much "risk capital" in Australia. Almost everything innovative that we do (apart from the Victa mower and the Hills Hoist) gets developed overseas and then sold back to us.

It's been acknowledged that we are big in innovation but small in commercialisation.
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It's not just r and d that has risk, take Woolworths attempt to expand into hard ware, massive capital outlays, and huge monthly losses all paid for by share holders funds, but that's the thing with business, nothing is really a sure thing, share holders take all that business risk.

And it's not just big companies, it's every sole trader that puts their life savings into their "great idea" some times it truly is a great idea, most of the time it's not, but we need people out their starting their businesses, if it's greed that drives them, so what, more power to them.

In the morning I will walk down to the bakery and get a pie and a Coke, I want him to be open, I don't want to find he has closed because by Thursday he had met his basic needs with his earnings, I want him to continue serving me on Sunday's, hoping to get that new car or extra $100k In the bank.
 
Value Collector said:
In the morning I will walk down to the bakery and get a pie and a Coke, I want him to be open, I don't want to find he has closed because by Thursday he had met his basic needs with his earnings, I want him to continue serving me on Sunday's, hoping to get that new car or extra $100k In the bank.
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Yeah sure, but we all want value for money don't we ?

My supermarket sold some nut bars in a package with a display window, The package was about twice the size of the actual bar but you couldn't tell that from looking at it because the bar filled the display window.

That's false advertising and greed. Fool the customer into thinking he's buying more than he actually is.

If your bakery reduced the size of your pie but increased the price, would you complain or praise his business acumen ?
 
SirRumpole said:
Yeah sure, but we all want value for money don't we ?

My supermarket sold some nut bars in a package with a display window, The package was about twice the size of the actual bar but you couldn't tell that from looking at it because the bar filled the display window.

That's false advertising and greed. Fool the customer into thinking he's buying more than he actually is.

If your bakery reduced the size of your pie but increased the price, would you complain or praise his business acumen ?
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If I felt his offering was no longer the best option, I would probably go to the competition, maybe get some sushi rolls.
 
SirRumpole said:
As should all the gays who want wedding cakes.

:D
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Not the same situation at all, if you are selling wedding cakes, you should sell to any customer who walks through the door, regardless of race, sexuality etc etc (unless your not a business open to the public and you are a membership based club etc)

I would be pissed if the bakery was open to the public but refused to serve me a pie because they didn't like my religion or race or sexuality or something.
 
SirRumpole said:
Yes, I agree, everyone should be equally ripped off, regardless of their race, creed or sexuality.

:D
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Exactly.

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Though I wouldn't say ripped off, at the end of the day, the average person now consumes more products and services than any time in history, while also putting the least effort in history.

I mean compare our life styles to 100years ago, the average person is now sitting in a much bigger home, with machining machines, vacuum cleaners, dryers, computers, TVs, air conditioners, probably atleast 1 car, the person is probably eats more food but does less cooking, owns more clothes, has probably had international holidays, works less hours each day and the work is made easy by modern tools.

We really are richer than we have ever been, but we are never happy. We always still seem to complain even as our life styles seem to improve every generation.
 
Value Collector said:
Exactly.

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Though I wouldn't say ripped off, at the end of the day, the average person now consumes more products and services than any time in history, while also putting the least effort in history.

I mean compare our life styles to 100years ago, the average person is now sitting in a much bigger home, with machining machines, vacuum cleaners, dryers, computers, TVs, air conditioners, probably atleast 1 car, the person is probably eats more food but does less cooking, owns more clothes, has probably had international holidays, works less hours each day and the work is made easy by modern tools.

We really are richer than we have ever been, but we are never happy. We always still seem to complain even as our life styles seem to improve every generation.
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Yes, I think I agree with all of that.

This table is interesting

20 happiest countries in the world

1 Paraguay
2 Panama
3 Guatemala
4 Nicaragua
5 Ecuador
6 Costa Rica
7 Colombia
8 Denmark
9 Honduras
10 Venezuela
11 El Salvador
12 Indonesia
13 Philippines
14 Thailand
15 UAE
16 Canada
17 New Zealand
18 Australia
19 Chile
20 Argentina

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-23/australia-the-worlds-18th-happiest-country/5471108

You wouldn't think Panama, Paraguay and Guatemala were particularly rich countries would you ?

So there is more to happiness that material satisfaction.
 
Value Collector said:
Exactly.

---------------

Though I wouldn't say ripped off, at the end of the day, the average person now consumes more products and services than any time in history, while also putting the least effort in history.

I mean compare our life styles to 100years ago, the average person is now sitting in a much bigger home, with machining machines, vacuum cleaners, dryers, computers, TVs, air conditioners, probably atleast 1 car, the person is probably eats more food but does less cooking, owns more clothes, has probably had international holidays, works less hours each day and the work is made easy by modern tools.

We really are richer than we have ever been, but we are never happy. We always still seem to complain even as our life styles seem to improve every generation.
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But that whining is also "greed", which is good for business.
 
SirRumpole said:
Yeah sure, but we all want value for money don't we ?

My supermarket sold some nut bars in a package with a display window, The package was about twice the size of the actual bar but you couldn't tell that from looking at it because the bar filled the display window.

That's false advertising and greed. Fool the customer into thinking he's buying more than he actually is.

If your bakery reduced the size of your pie but increased the price, would you complain or praise his business acumen ?
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And tissue boxes too!

The actual tissue is maybe 3/4 the length. So now I have to not merely just compare with the cents/100 sheets, but fired up the scientific calc on the iPhone to do some conversion based on metre squareage. :D Or maybe just compare by weight.
 
SirRumpole said:
Yes, I think I agree with all of that.

This table is interesting

20 happiest countries in the world

1 Paraguay
2 Panama
3 Guatemala
4 Nicaragua
5 Ecuador
6 Costa Rica
7 Colombia
8 Denmark
9 Honduras
10 Venezuela
11 El Salvador
12 Indonesia
13 Philippines
14 Thailand
15 UAE
16 Canada
17 New Zealand
18 Australia
19 Chile
20 Argentina

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-23/australia-the-worlds-18th-happiest-country/5471108

You wouldn't think Panama, Paraguay and Guatemala were particularly rich countries would you ?

So there is more to happiness that material satisfaction.
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I would love to know has they measure that, maybe it's more of a list of countries that complain the list about there lives.
 
DB008 said:
I just watched the whole interview. Doesn't that little **** make you angry.

Boy-oh-boy, what I'd give to punch him in that smug face of his...
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He is an a hole. But a small time crook compares to Big Pharma and what the US politicians do to gouge their American public.

Heard from economist Joe Stiglitz ( I think that's his name) said how Big Pharma, and the Congress and Senate that signed it, made it illegal for US gov't buyers to negotiate drug prices when making big purchases. The few words that forbid trade negotiation on drugs costs American tax payers something like $10B per year.

What this prick did is bad and wrong, but it's capitalism - something I guess we all agree is good?
What big pharma did, the did with politician's blessings, costs taxpayers as well as being anti-capitalist.

When I buy a big item, or buy multiple items, I bargain and negotiate. I don't even need to on some bulk buys at Coles or Woolies.
 
SirRumpole said:
Objective morality doesn't apply when making money.
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It's always more useful to talk about the ethics of how one makes money instead of invoking an ambiguous term like "objective morality". The religious like the notion of moral absolutism because it gives them a sense of superiority over non-believers (atheists). The non-believer they posit has no reason to be, or frame of reference for, being "moral" (this topic comes up frequently in debates with the religious). Only the jealous, vengeful God depicted in iron-age scrolls can tell us what is moral and not because he is inherently good. Ipso facto you can only truly be moral if you believe in the God standard - rules for conduct (including thoughts not just actions) inscribed in religious scrolls.

The sheer stupidity of such an argumentation over the ownership and origins of morality escapes the attention of indoctrinated religious minds since they know with absolute certainty what constitutes right and wrong in every situation - there are no moral grey areas for them. Just another example of how religion subjugates the minds of followers and substitutes dogma for reason.

Rules like the 10 commandments may useful for an ordered society but of course could be authored by anyone at anytime in human history and improved upon. Breaking such rules/laws may have consequences for your liberty in this life but has nothing whatsoever to do with one's eternal destiny.
 
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