Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Religion IS crazy!

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Value Collector said:
(maybe we should move this to the philosophy thread)

I see huge amounts of value generation everyday, everywhere I look I see companies adding value, I think we just take our system for granted.

Sure there is always going to be people doing the wrong thing, and we should try and limit that, but the foundation of our system are strong. Just remember when you sit and eat dinner tonight, you are benefiting from the best food production and delivery system ever constructed on this planet, and it was built by "Greedy capitalists" all working and investing to make sure you're fed, they will probably also make sure your lights are on and your entertained for the night (Hopefully by a marvel or star wars film or maybe a classic Disney film:xyxthumbs)
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Some of the food may also be contaminated, or have way too much industrial engineering, and delivered to my door with the best of intentions too :D

Does bootleg Disney movies count? Not that I would ever thought of it of course.

But yes, the foundation is strong. Just like anything it need an alert public. Else, as they say, the tree of liberty may from time to time be nourish with the blood of tyrants, capitalists and patriots :cautious:

Let's be alert shall we.
 
Value Collector said:
I think if you took all the parts of the system away that are either owned, constructed, supplied by or maintained by private companies or contractors you wouldn't have a system.
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I'm talking about ownership of assets.

Sure, sub contract out to private enterprise the operational bits, but selling (or the stupid 99 year lease) is relinquishing control of public essential service assets to private interests, thereby taking them out of the control of elected representatives who represent us, not a small body of shareholders.
 
Value Collector said:
did the government physically build the system or did they tender contracts for construction out to private companies?

Does the government own all of the system? or are sections of the generation owned and built by private companies?

What about the fuel? are the coal mines/gas fields operated by government or private?

are the vehicles used to run around and maintain everything made by the government or private companies?

what about all the physical parts and tools, does the government own the saw mills, pine forests etc that provide the power poles, the copper mines and cable mills that produce the wire, the factories that produce countless other parts and chemicals used to run power stations?

I think if you took all the parts of the system away that are either owned, constructed, supplied by or maintained by private companies or contractors you wouldn't have a system.

So yes, private companies are keeping your lights on.
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Gov't funded all of the infrastructures. Even those that were build and constructed by private enterprise - it got built, often at extremely high risk and cost over-run, because the gov't foot the bill.

Take the roads... proper roads and bridges were never funded by private capitalists. The Fords and GMs of the world merely built the car, and they would not be taken up in any hurry if the gov't did not then fund roads and bridges. And they definitely would not be running if the gov't does not send armies and embassadors to certain places to secure certain fields and trade routes.

Take, for example, Boeing and their jets. Heard that the US gov't "sold" all the land for Boeing's plant in Washington for $1. The gov't then funded all its R&D, funded all the subcontractors building those navigation etc. systems... Sure it was done so Hitler won't be coming over but once done Boeing then own the rights and have the know-how to then monopolise the entire market for a long while.

There are not that many entreprenuerial geniuses who create entire markets themselves. Those few that may have are arguably not capitalists at all - but are entreprenuers - the dreamers. Even Elon Musk and his space company, as well as Tesla, are largely funded right now through gov't subsidies.

But if we just read the headlines it appear like the guy take his own cash from PayPal and fund the entire venture. I mean he's smart and innovative and all that of course... just he's not this lone genius who want to change the world while the gov't can't do anything but close down NASA's space shuttles.
 
Good.

The Netherlands has recognised the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster as a religion​

The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster has finally been recognised as a religion in The Netherlands.

Two days ago, pastafarians were told by the country’s Chamber of Commerce that they would be granted official status. They had been trying for several years.

Although a momentous time for the church of FSM – this is not the first time the church has been officially recognised.

The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is already recognised in North America after being established by ‘prophet’ Bobby Henderson in 2005 as a protest against creationism.

Pastafarians believe heaven is a beer volcano with a stripper factory, while hell is the same but the beer is stale and the strippers have sexually transmitted diseases.
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SirRumpole said:
I'm talking about ownership of assets.

Sure, sub contract out to private enterprise the operational bits, but selling (or the stupid 99 year lease) is relinquishing control of public essential service assets to private interests, thereby taking them out of the control of elected representatives who represent us, not a small body of shareholders.
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My original statement was stating that without capitalists input, the lights wouldn't be on now.
 
luutzu said:
Gov't funded all of the infrastructures. Even those that were build and constructed by private enterprise - it got built, often at extremely high risk and cost over-run, because the gov't foot the bill.

Take the roads... proper roads and bridges were never funded by private capitalists. The Fords and GMs of the world merely built the car, and they would not be taken up in any hurry if the gov't did not then fund roads and bridges. And they definitely would not be running if the gov't does not send armies and embassadors to certain places to secure certain fields and trade routes.

Take, for example, Boeing and their jets. Heard that the US gov't "sold" all the land for Boeing's plant in Washington for $1. The gov't then funded all its R&D, funded all the subcontractors building those navigation etc. systems... Sure it was done so Hitler won't be coming over but once done Boeing then own the rights and have the know-how to then monopolise the entire market for a long while.

There are not that many entreprenuerial geniuses who create entire markets themselves. Those few that may have are arguably not capitalists at all - but are entreprenuers - the dreamers. Even Elon Musk and his space company, as well as Tesla, are largely funded right now through gov't subsidies.

But if we just read the headlines it appear like the guy take his own cash from PayPal and fund the entire venture. I mean he's smart and innovative and all that of course... just he's not this lone genius who want to change the world while the gov't can't do anything but close down NASA's space shuttles.
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I never said the governments didn't do anything, I am not one of those anti government folks.

I am just say I am just saying the backbone of the world is free enterprise, we thrive because everyday people wake up and go an try and make a buck, it works, I don't have to be a hunter gather because other people are experts in their fields, doing their best to feed, clothe and house me at competitive prices and I am trying to serve them in my fields as best I can.

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Look at that MRM you brought to my attention, every day it's out their competing trying to serve its customers supplying essential services to the rigs.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention by the way, up over 30% so far :xyxthumbs, I might owe you a carton of beer soon.
 
Value Collector said:
I never said the governments didn't do anything, I am not one of those anti government folks.

I am just say I am just saying the backbone of the world is free enterprise, we thrive because everyday people wake up and go an try and make a buck, it works, I don't have to be a hunter gather because other people are experts in their fields, doing their best to feed, clothe and house me at competitive prices and I am trying to serve them in my fields as best I can.
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Yea? And what field is that? Ya lazy capitalist pig. haha...

I was discussing, well kinda me talking while my wife try not to sleep... about Dick Smith and Anchorage. I kinda did not blame Anchorage too much and understand where they're coming from and how people ought to read what they say... that kinda woke her up a bit. Moral decay or capitalism talking?
 
luutzu said:
Yea? And what field is that? Ya lazy capitalist pig. haha...

?
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Hey, I have skills man, hahahaha, I'm not lazy, it just doesn't take me long to earn my daily bread, lol

Also being there to buy people's shares in great little companies when they are panic selling is providing a service, isn't it? Lol, some has to have be patient capital to balance out the market.
 
Value Collector said:
Hey, I have skills man, hahahaha, I'm not lazy, it just doesn't take me long to earn my daily bread, lol

Also being there to buy people's shares in great little companies when they are panic selling is providing a service, isn't it? Lol, some has to have be patient capital to balance out the market.
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Some may call that taking advantage of people. But since I try to do that too, we're all good :xyxthumbs

But yes, value investors are there to keep the market efficient.
 
luutzu said:
Some may call that taking advantage of people. But since I try to do that too, we're all good :xyxthumbs

But yes, value investors are there to keep the market efficient.
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They click the sell button, not me, me being in the market actually helps them get a better price than they would other wise, so I am not taking advantage of them.
 
Value Collector said:
I didn't dispure that.

My point is that we all have a better standard of living because "greedy capitalist" are fighting to serve us everyday.
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I don't dispute that either, I'm just saying that we would all be better off if there was more ethical capitalism and less greedy capitalism.
 
SirRumpole said:
I don't dispute that either, I'm just saying that we would all be better off if there was more ethical capitalism and less greedy capitalism.
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More ethical everything would make th world better.

But, even ethical capitalism needs the greedy bit, I what's the point of the ethical energy generation company building one wind farm and then saying, no that's all we need, my share holders aren't greedy, we want them to want more dividends, so they reinvest back into more wind farms etc.

Waning more, leads to producing more, offcourse I am not a fan of gluttony and waste, but that different to capitistic greed as I think of it. With out that type of greed the huge capital accumulation that has allowed gates, Buffett and countless other to do world changing charity wouldn't be possible.
 
Value Collector said:
More ethical everything would make th world better.

But, even ethical capitalism needs the greedy bit, I what's the point of the ethical energy generation company building one wind farm and then saying, no that's all we need, my share holders aren't greedy, we want them to want more dividends, so they reinvest back into more wind farms etc.

Waning more, leads to producing more, offcourse I am not a fan of gluttony and waste, but that different to capitistic greed as I think of it.
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In an ethical society, shareholders are only one part of the whole equation and the needs of everyone (including the national and global interests) needs to be weighed up.

So either 1. the corporations can do this themselves or 2. we have laws that protect the consumer, environment, society, government revenue etc.

So far, only number 2. seems to have much effect.
 
SirRumpole said:
In an ethical society, shareholders are only one part of the whole equation and the needs of everyone (including the national and global interests) needs to be weighed up.

So either 1. the corporations can do this themselves or 2. we have laws that protect the consumer, environment, society, government revenue etc.

So far, only number 2. seems to have much effect.
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Yeah, shareholders are only one part, but it's their money that must be invested to grow companies and provide services into the economy that we need, in any given project, they are the first to have to lay out money and the last to get paid, and they bear the brunt of project and investment risk.

without shareholders willing to continually reinvest their earnings to grow companies, conduct research, explore for resources, and start risky new ventures, we wouldn't have the standard of living we have, the fact that it is probably greed that leads people to do these things is fine, as I said gluttony is the "sin" not greed.
 
Value Collector said:
Yeah, shareholders are only one part, but it's their money that must be invested to grow companies and provide services into the economy that we need, in any given project, they are the first to have to lay out money and the last to get paid, and they bear the brunt of project and investment risk.

without shareholders willing to continually reinvest their earnings to grow companies, conduct research, explore for resources, and start risky new ventures, we wouldn't have the standard of living we have, the fact that it is probably greed that leads people to do these things is fine, as I said gluttony is the "sin" not greed.
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So you don't think people would want to invest in ethical companies ?
 
Value Collector said:
They click the sell button, not me, me being in the market actually helps them get a better price than they would other wise, so I am not taking advantage of them.
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yup. We're the one being taken advantage of - buying things for cheap just to watch it go cheaper. Selling thing at fair price just to watch it go higher. I'm going to stop playing fair man. :D

But seriously, I agree with you. Intelligent capital allocation is what builds the world :xyxthumbs
 
SirRumpole said:
In an ethical society, shareholders are only one part of the whole equation and the needs of everyone (including the national and global interests) needs to be weighed up.

So either 1. the corporations can do this themselves or 2. we have laws that protect the consumer, environment, society, government revenue etc.

So far, only number 2. seems to have much effect.
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They're also working on removing number two too.
 
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