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no one is saying you have to be best friends with a person in a burka, just don't ban them wearing it.
I didn't say that the popularity of an argument makes it invalid, just that is doesn't increase it validity.
A lot of people point out that a certain idea is popular in an attempt to add weight to their argument, this is where the fallacy is at play.
eg, saying other countries in Europe have done it, is an attempt to say "Other countries have done it, therefore it must be be ok, or therefore My opinion has more weight.
By doing this you are avoiding adding an actual demonstration that your idea is valid, and instead adding an appeal to popularity, which is a logical fallacy, doing that will get you to the wrong logical out come.
We may find that we will be jumping on boats, to get away from their lifestyle, in the end.
What about showing a video of ' 10 hours wearing a bikini, in a muslim country'.
You would be videoing in a prison, or a stoning would be taking place.lol You are funny.
What everyone gets out of shape about is, they can wear clothing that doesn't fit into our culture and country.
Yet they lay criminal charges, if you don't conform to their dress code, while in their country.
Who are the fools, us obviously, we are so busy trying to make our country replicate theirs.
We may find that we will be jumping on boats, to get away from their lifestyle, in the end.
iVC, although I agree with you on many things, this is one area that I don't.
The burka and the slightly less abhorrent niqab are not simply a choice of clothing but are a symbol of Islamic oppression of women. An assumption you are making is that the woman are wearing them voluntarily, whereas there is evidence that many are forced to do so by their husbands, other family members or peers. I have read numerous articles written by Muslim women who want a ban on those garments simple because it would allow them the excuse not to wear them. We are just assisting their oppression by allowing such oppressive customs to continue.
That they are clearly oppressive garments is obvious with those wearing them extremely limited in their choice of occupation or career. I think (from memory) some schools have already won the right to prevent teachers from wearing those garments as they impede a very important function of the teacher/pupil relationship, namely the conveying of information and emotion through facial expression. They also rule out the ability of the wearer to obtain employment in positions that are customer facing as again the ability of the wearer to communicate with the customer is severely limited if facial expressions are concealed. One only needs a rudimentary schooling in salesmanship to realise the importance of non-verbal communication in sales situations.
I agree with your arguments on the evolution of morality, with what we today regard as moral being the result of reason and education and not the gift of some imaginary deity. It should equally be as obvious from our understanding of the origins of those types of clothing that they came about not as a fashion statement that the women themselves wanted, but though the unwanted imposition of extreme Islamic interpretations by misogynistic Islamic leaders. Due to indoctrination over several generations (as their widespread use is quite recent), many Muslim women now even feel uncomfortable not wearing those garments.
It is our moral duty to provide a society where Muslim women can express themselves as freely as any other women and banning clothing that symbolises and continues their oppression is important. Yes, there may be some who really want to continue wearing those garments and may feel we are prohibiting their freedom, but it is for the greater good (much like banning the use if the Confederate Flag in public buildings in the US southern states). We are in a sense providing an environment that allow them to be unindoctrinated (if that's a word).
Kabul 1970s and today.
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What is the point of that video? It is a beat up.
Dressing up or down does not justify any religion.
Why should what overseas sea countries do affect the freedoms we enjoy here?
I support women's rights to choose to where what ever they feel comfortable in, all I am saying is that I can see why girls from a conservative culture like some brands of Muslims would feel comfortable wearing a hijab/burka, who does it harm?
i
if they don't want to where the hijab, they don't have to.
But that is simply not true as I have stated based on many articles I have read. They have to live within their strict Islamic society (within the broader Australian society) and not conforming to what the males of that society want is very difficult and dangerous for them. Look at the death threats made against the most vocal Muslim and ex-Muslim women who have spoken out against Islamic oppression, women who are in a sense partly protected by their notoriety and also by the freedom to escape their environment due to the financial independence coming with that notoriety and imagine what it is like for the poorly educated and financially dependent women stuck in their cultural ghettos to try and exhibit the same independence of dress. They need us to help them escape their chains not show tolerance for what is going on.
Look at the two different pictures of the Afghan women above. Due you think for a moment that they are happy with the current situation? Women in Islamic societies have gone backwards in the last 50 years due to the rise of Islamic extremism and fundamentalism. They are the victims. Just because they and the males have been transplanted to Australia doesn't mean that they are now free to do as they please.
I ride a motorcycle, I am called upon to remove it all the time, as it is seen as a risk having my face obscured.
It boils back to the "when in Rome, do as the Romans do".
They leave a muslim country, because of persicution, they move through several muslim countries, to enter our country.
Why can't they adopt our culture or at least modify their own? It is a difficult situation, that isn't going to be resolved easily.
But that is simply not true as I have stated based on many articles I have read. They have to live within their strict Islamic society (within the broader Australian society) and not conforming to what the males of that society want is very difficult and dangerous for them. Look at the death threats made against the most vocal Muslim and ex-Muslim women who have spoken out against Islamic oppression, women who are in a sense partly protected by their notoriety and also by the freedom to escape their environment due to the financial independence coming with that notoriety and imagine what it is like for the poorly educated and financially dependent women stuck in their cultural ghettos to try and exhibit the same independence of dress. They need us to help them escape their chains not show tolerance for what is going on.
Look at the two different pictures of the Afghan women above. Due you think for a moment that they are happy with the current situation? Women in Islamic societies have gone backwards in the last 50 years due to the rise of Islamic extremism and fundamentalism. They are the victims. Just because they and the males have been transplanted to Australia doesn't mean that they are now free to do as they please.
Real estate is so unbelievably expensive in Sydney, I was thinking of jumping on the other boat - "realestate.com.syria".
What with all the refugee exodus there must be some real bargains to be had.
But that is simply not true as I have stated based on many articles I have read. They have to live within their strict Islamic society (within the broader Australian society) and not conforming to what the males of that society want is very difficult and dangerous for them. Look at the death threats made against the most vocal Muslim and ex-Muslim women who have spoken out against Islamic oppression, women who are in a sense partly protected by their notoriety and also by the freedom to escape their environment due to the financial independence coming with that notoriety and imagine what it is like for the poorly educated and financially dependent women stuck in their cultural ghettos to try and exhibit the same independence of dress. They need us to help them escape their chains not show tolerance for what is going on.
Look at the two different pictures of the Afghan women above. Due you think for a moment that they are happy with the current situation? Women in Islamic societies have gone backwards in the last 50 years due to the rise of Islamic extremism and fundamentalism. They are the victims. Just because they and the males have been transplanted to Australia doesn't mean that they are now free to do as they please.
What about showing a video of ' 10 hours wearing a bikini, in a muslim country'.
You would be videoing in a prison, or a stoning would be taking place.lol You are funny.
What everyone gets out of shape about is, they can wear clothing that doesn't fit into our culture and country.
Yet they lay criminal charges, if you don't conform to their dress code, while in their country.
Who are the fools, us obviously, we are so busy trying to make our country replicate theirs.
We may find that we will be jumping on boats, to get away from their lifestyle, in the end.
You that's because there have bee not lot of instances where people have committed violent crimes wearing helmets, is that happening with burkas?
Who are you talking about? A lot of Muslims are born here
( translation, I'll blame the touchscreen keyboard )
yes, that's because there have been a lot of instances where people have committed violent crimes wearing helmets, is that happening with burkas?
Not yet, but maybe later if the Muslim population increases and they decide to show some muscle.
Better to nip these things in the bud now before there are more of them to argue with.
You do know the VLAD laws in QLD are majorly in part a result of the vicious Arab breeds infiltrating the bikie gangs?
I didn't know that.
Are the laws working ?
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