Religion IS crazy!

[Value Collector]

So, what do we do ? Denounce all religion, burn churches, mosques, Bibles and the Koran ?

Just stop giving religion the unearned respect it gets at the moment, and don't promote faith as being good thing, value rational thought, and critical thinking over blind faith and subservience.

Don't look down on members of the community who are sceptics or atheists, and don't be afraid to be an open atheist, if its safe to come out of the closet, then do it, and don't look up to people who profess faith, consider it a weakness in their character rather than a strength.

And have open rational conversations with people on the fence, point out the flaws in religious teachings and wipe away the mystic to show it for what it really is, a load of old tribal stories full of nonsense.

 

[Tink]

VC, you are a militant atheist, an extremist, that IS a religion.

 

[SirRumpole]

Just stop giving religion the unearned respect it gets at the moment, and don't promote faith as being good thing, value rational thought, and critical thinking over blind faith and subservience.

Don't look down on members of the community who are sceptics or atheists, and don't be afraid to be an open atheist, if its safe to come out of the closet, then do it, and don't look up to people who profess faith, consider it a weakness in their character rather than a strength.

And have open rational conversations with people on the fence, point out the flaws in religious teachings and wipe away the mystic to show it for what it really is, a load of old tribal stories full of nonsense.

Maybe we could start by pointing out the flaws of religious sanctification of food instead of pandering to religious certification pressure groups ?

 

[pixel]

Just stop giving religion the unearned respect it gets at the moment, and don't promote faith as being good thing, value rational thought, and critical thinking over blind faith and subservience.

Don't look down on members of the community who are sceptics or atheists, and don't be afraid to be an open atheist, if its safe to come out of the closet, then do it, and don't look up to people who profess faith, consider it a weakness in their character rather than a strength.

And have open rational conversations with people on the fence, point out the flaws in religious teachings and wipe away the mystic to show it for what it really is, a load of old tribal stories full of nonsense.

I tend to agree with you in the main, VC
... but ...
I'd see extreme faith as a shortcoming of upbringing/ education rather than one of character.
Our separation of State and Religion is unfortunately only a legalistic concept, a Utopian fiction. After all, our Head of State is also the head of a religious creed. Historically, that has made it "right" to exempt institutions of one particular faith from taxes, extending the special privileges to similar faiths. Unfortunately, that same principle had then to be extended to every creed and sect that called itself a religion. Take away those special privileges from every group, cut ties with the one dysfunctional family half a world away, and become a republic in more but name. Tat may be our only chance to avoid the risk of being ruled by religious nutters of one persuasion and besieged by religious nutters of another.

I don't have an issue with people reading the Bible or the Koran or any other book of fiction. I've gone through most of them, including the Mahabharata, Mormon, or Hubbard's Science Fiction. Where I draw the line is when someone claims to be superior to everyone else because their particular delusion is the One and Only True Faith that all others have to accept ... or else! That kind of thinking is as bad as, if not worse than, any form of racism.

 

[Value Collector]

VC, you are a militant atheist, an extremist.

I am not an extremist, The term "militant atheist" is basically a tongue cheek way of describing an atheist who is a bit more confrontational, and won't feign respect for you nonsense as a lot of other atheists do.

It's is certainly nothing like a "militant Islamist" or "militant Christian", no violence is involved.

that IS a religion

Nope, not at all. It's the absence of religion.

Bald is not a hair colour, Off is not a TV channel and not stop collecting is not a hobby.

 

[Value Collector]

Maybe we could start by pointing out the flaws of religious sanctification of food instead of pandering to religious certification pressure groups ?

Feel free to point out as many flaws as you like.

 

[Value Collector]

I tend to agree with you in the main, VC
... but ...
I'd see extreme faith as a shortcoming of upbringing/ education rather than one of character.
.

I agree in part, as I have said I consider a lot of religious people to be victims of crime. They are only religious because they were taken advantage of and lied to by some one. But, the ability to think critically is part of your character, so their character is affected, even though they are not always 100% responsible for it.

Our separation of State and Religion is unfortunately only a legalistic concept, a Utopian fiction. After all, our Head of State is also the head of a religious creed. Historically, that has made it "right" to exempt institutions of one particular faith from taxes, extending the special privileges to similar faiths. Unfortunately, that same principle had then to be extended to every creed and sect that called itself a religion. Take away those special privileges from every group, cut ties with the one dysfunctional family half a world away, and become a republic in more but name. Tat may be our only chance to avoid the risk of being ruled by religious nutters of one persuasion and besieged by religious nutters of another

.

Agreed.

I don't have an issue with people reading the Bible or the Koran or any other book of fiction. I've gone through most of them, including the Mahabharata, Mormon, or Hubbard's Science Fiction. Where I draw the line is when someone claims to be superior to everyone else because their particular delusion is the One and Only True Faith that all others have to accept ... or else! That kind of thinking is as bad as, if not worse than, any form of racism

I have no problem with people reading the religious texts either, But if they try and portray them as revealed knowledge that can't be questioned, they should expect society to question that, not bow to them.

---------------------
This is child abuse, and this girl is a victim.

 

[SirRumpole]

Feel free to point out as many flaws as you like.

You are the one stirring up the anti religious sentiment, so it's up to you to point out the flaws.

I pointed out a lot of them in the Halal thread, they aren't copyright so feel free to use them.

You disagreed that they were flaws I seem to remember, have you changed your opinion?

Off you go with you anti religion oratory, I'm all ears.

 

[Value Collector]

You are the one stirring up the anti religious sentiment, so it's up to you to point out the flaws.

I pointed out a lot of them in the Halal thread, they aren't copyright so feel free to use them.

You disagreed that they were flaws I seem to remember, have you changed your opinion?

Off you go with you anti religion oratory, I'm all ears.

No, I haven't changed my opinion, Religious freedom and other civil liberties are still very important to me. I am not going to tell people what to eat and I am not going to tell private organisations who they can and can't market to, or who they can hire to help them market products.

Halal foods are a symptom, and it is a rather benign symptom, I would much rather focus on curing the disease rather than attacking people over a benign symptom such as the foods they choose to eat, even if we could wave a magic wand and cure all the Muslims of their faith, Halal foods would probably still be in demand for cultural reasons.

For example, a lot of Australians still put up christmas trees during the northern hemisphere's winter solistice, no one really believes that we need to bring in a tree in from outside to ensure the winter breaks and spring returns, however it is part of our culture now, we don't even do it in winter we do it in summer. I think halal foods would stick around.

I am not going to try and stop christmas trees or halal products.

 

[Tisme]

No, I haven't changed my opinion, Religious freedom and other civil liberties are still very important to me. I am not going to tell people what to eat and I am not going to tell private organisations who they can and can't market to, or who they can hire to help them market products.

.

My concern is a religion that puts brutality in the hands of its (male) followers. I think we tend to think of religion as benign Hindu, Buddhist or Christian, et al, and define peaceful in those terms. I do believe Islam defines and manifests peaceful in a different way, with less emphasis on community peace and more on inner conviction or righteousness.

So when the mouthpieces and talking heads of the Muslim "community" talk fair, peace and belonging are they talking Australian accepted norms or middle eastern?

 

[Tink]

Yes, Christmas is a part of our culture, and our Christian calendar and heritage.

Sadly, the PC mob keep trying to attack it.

 

[Value Collector]

Yes, Christmas is a part of our culture, and our Christian calendar and heritage.

.

I was talking about the tradition of decorating christmas trees, which predate Christianity, going back to the pagan Yule tide celebration. The celebration of christmas has little to do with Christianity these days, and originally had nothing to do with Jesus. In fact there is actually bible verses that warn against decorating trees, because that was a heathen tradition.

I love christmas, it has nothing to do with religion in my house, its about real things, like family, food, charity, gifts, alcohol, games. And I think thats how it is for most people these days.

But, as much as I love christmas, I am not going to try and force it on others.

Sadly, the PC mob keep trying to attack it

Who is trying to attack christmas?

All I see or hear is people attacking people for not celebrating christmas enough, people get offended now if you say Happy holidays, some how they think saying happy holidays is an attack on christmas, So who exactly is taking PC to far?

I have heard people suggest you should avoid shops and businesses that don't say merry christmas to you when you enter, and who don't put up christmas decorations, thats not christmas under attack, thats the Christian mob on the offensive .
Listen to the lyrics in this song, and see who is doing the attacking, and being forceful.

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ln01p1M2cH0[/video]

 

[SirRumpole]

I was talking about the tradition of decorating christmas trees, which predate Christianity, going back to the pagan Yule tide celebration. The celebration of christmas has little to do with Christianity these days, and originally had nothing to do with Jesus.

I love christmas, it has nothing to do with religion in my house, its about real things, like family, food, charity, gifts, alcohol, games. And I think thats how it is for most people these days.

But, as much as I love christmas, I am not going to try and force it on others.



Who is trying to attack christmas?

All I see or hear is people attacking people for not celebrating christmas enough, people get offended now if you say Happy holidays, some how they think saying happy holidays is an attack on christmas, So who exactly is taking PC to far?

I have heard people suggest you should avoid shops and businesses that don't say merry christmas to you when you enter, and who don't put up christmas decorations, thats not christmas under attack, thats the Christian mob on the offensive .
Listen to the lyrics in this song, and see who is doing the attacking, and being forceful.

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ln01p1M2cH0[/video]

If it wasn't for Christians we wouldn't have holidays at Christmas and Easter, so they cant be all bad.

 

[Value Collector]

If it wasn't for Christians we wouldn't have holidays at Christmas and Easter, so they cant be all bad.

Actually the Christians just hijacked or merged into pre existing celebrations.

Also, cultures all over the world find reasons to eat, drink and have time off. So if christmas didn't exist, it would not be long before we would just make up another reason to celebrate, it's what we humans do.

None of the actual Christian parts are fun, if you think they are, you do only Christian traditions this year, and I will do all the fun stuff, but don't complain to me when your sitting in mass singing rubbish songs, I will be to busy having a champaign breakfast or playing backyard cricket while the chickens roast on the BBQ.

And don't forget the presents and prawns.

 

[luutzu]

If it wasn't for Christians we wouldn't have holidays at Christmas and Easter, so they cant be all bad.

I didn't know Xmas was Christ's birthday until I watched Kubrick's "full metal jacket" where the instructor sang happy birthday Jesus. So I put one and one together, haha.

Before that I thought it was just a new year holiday.

I'm an atheist and my wife is probably agnostic but we put the Xmas tree on each year. Make the kids happy.

 

[luutzu]

VC, you are a militant atheist, an extremist, that IS a religion.

He is a bit fanatical, haha... but in a good way.

You got to be when you know you're right.

Anyway, at least he's rational about it... otherwise... I think he's the guy with a particular set of skills, skills acquired over a very long career, skills that will make him a nightmare to bad people (from Taken).

 

[Value Collector]

I didn't know Xmas was Christ's birthday until I watched Kubrick's "full metal jacket"

I think he's the guy with a particular set of skills, skills acquired over a very long career, skills that will make him a nightmare to bad people (from Taken).

Did I just find a fellow movie buff

 

[Value Collector]

If it wasn't for Christians we wouldn't have holidays at Christmas and Easter, so they cant be all bad.

Turns out we would have all the holidays and traditions.

 

[Value Collector]

Same can be said for other regimes that go about slaughtering people. Many atheistic regimes that have resulted in more deaths than any.

Both Tink and Pav ( and many others) often claim atheism is responsible for more deaths and harm than religion, often making claims that millions have been killed for atheism. I find it interesting though, that when asked to back up this claim, both tink and pav go silent.

Because, this is a claim regularly thrown around by theist's I am genuinely interested in a reply to my below challenge.

I challenge you to name one person who has killed for atheism, or in the name of atheism.

And before you answer, please learn the difference between atheism and antitheism. The communists etc didn't kill for atheism, atheism has no tenants which instruct killing, they killed to increase the power of their communist party, not for atheism.

Atheism is simply the non belief in a god, that's it, any other belief that could lead you to kill, is something else.

 

[SirRumpole]

And before you answer, please learn the difference between atheism and antitheism. The communists etc didn't kill for atheism, atheism has no tenants which instruct killing, they killed to increase the power of their communist party, not for atheism.

The distinction you are trying to make between atheism and anti-theism doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter if people kill "in the name" of atheism. The Chinese Communists, North Koreans and North Vietnamese are atheists and see religion as a threat to their power so they kill religious people and burn their churches and books.

The people are still dead because they were religious people.