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Religion IS crazy!

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artist said:
Genesis . . . . Aramaic? If you have referred previously to some NT reference(s) to genetics or DNA I missed it.
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artist, apologies for the confusion. The impatient manner of my response was only intended for the direct recipient.

If by NT you mean New Testament then my answer is no, but rest assured that the book of Genesis wasn't originally expressed in written English.

The discourse commenced with my response to a post by DB, (Page 87, post #1727) and continued over subsequent pages where it was debated hotly. The last words I had to say on the matter at the time appear on page 89 (post #1774).
 
SirRumpole said:
Did I ever say they are all good ? I've made a point of saying they have done some bad things, but picking out a few loonies who may believe in witches is irrelevant and silly considering the 99.999% of Christians who don't.
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It's not just people that believe in witches, it's also those discriminating against gays, promoting faith healing over proper medical care, those fighting against teaching proper science, those trying to use the bible to prevent medical advancement, those assisting the spread of aids in Africa by telling people not to use condoms, and those contributing to more poverty by preaching against family planning, the list is almost endless.

Please answer this one question for me,

Please name one positive effect religion has, that can not be achieved in another way.
 
cynic said:
Did you read through the earlier pages of this thread that I directed you to?
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Well considering you didn't actually direct me to a page, you quoted another dribble reply you made to db where you again alluded that you had some information but you didn't actually provide it.

Again i don't know why what your afraid of, simply quote the verse you think describes chromosomes, maybe you know deep down that the verse requires so much biased interpretation that when we read it we will see its just more balony.
 
Value Collector said:
Please name one positive effect religion has, that can not be achieved in another way.
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The feeling of eternal peace or eternal hell just before you kick the bucket ?

The feeling u get when u think that those that have done you wrong will have their day of reckoning and you don't have to be Batman to seek justice?

George W Bush left alcohol, found politics and bring peace to the Middle East ?


Seriously though, to some people , for various reasons, god and religion bring them peace and make them feel better. You could get the same result thru drugs but it won't be the same. My parent in laws only became Catholic when the school need them to be to allow their kids in, but after my father in law suffered a serious stroke, I think she prayed for his recovery and they have been to Church every day, joining and volunteering to raise funds and visit nursing homes etc.

Then there's people who goes to church every week, statues and painting of god and Jesus everywhere at home but who'll have no problem cut your throat for a few dollars - and I've also met them, and I don't go out that much.
 
Value Collector said:
Well considering you didn't actually direct me to a page, you quoted another dribble reply you made to db where you again alluded that you had some information but you didn't actually provide it.

Again i don't know why what your afraid of, simply quote the verse you think describes chromosomes, maybe you know deep down that the verse requires so much biased interpretation that when we read it we will see its just more balony.
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So I take it that my reference to the date and thread where the discourse commenced, was too difficult for someone with "special forces" training to follow.
I think I can also recall mentioning the advanced search feature of ASF. Perhaps it's just a little too advanced for some posters.

Value Collector said:
...I think you'll find I have been willing to engage anybody in dialogue. The only person I find is a pain to talk to is Cynic, and only because of his dishonest style of debate...
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Value Collector said:
Yes, complete obfuscation is the best description for Cynics replies.
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I would normally ask how anybody in their right mind would even consider continuing to issue questions to a person they consider dishonest and painful to converse with. I would usually wonder what possible upside could there be for such a person if they were in their right mind! However, I don't believe I need to ask this question for reasons that have long since become blatantly apparent.

As stated previously:

cynic said:
...If you ever find yourself willing to openly investigate matters that may be in direct conflict with your personal philosophy, please let me know, until then please stop wasting my time and testing my patience.
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In relation to the following:

+ Some bad eggs within a religious community should not result in all being tarnished
+ That religion is the key cause of atrocities
+ warfare in the name of religion
+ that most of us are peace-loving, with many followers of religion being of like mind, and just want to get on with our lives

It is a recording of a response to a question from a Muslim lady who is a US citizen within a conservative forum addressing the deaths of four Americans in Benghazi, Libya. She is the sole Muslim in the audience.

I found it disturbing but impactful. I actually do not agree with the implications of the panelist's powerful response for the problem of Muslim terrorism (which can be taken as religious extremism/fundamentalism in general for this context). Nonetheless, here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTovydgX2NU
 
cynic said:
What aspect/s of my discourse on this matter was/were so unclear that it/they require revisitation?
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cynic, the question was directed by Artist to Tink. Much less asking you to expand anything that you have said.
My interpretation, and what I responded to, was essentially supporting bellenuit's earlier observation that Tink would issue a "hear, hear" for any post at all which even remotely appeared to support religion.

I have to confess I have insufficient interest to carefully read all the posts in this thread, many of which seem to be repetitive and non-productive. Honestly, I really don't understand what you're saying at times, but that's perhaps my lack of comprehension.

But I'm not at all asking you to go over anything. Rather, echoing the requests of others for Tink to aid those of us who are not sure what you're saying by sharing with us those parts of your remarks which apparently she comprehends more clearly than some of the rest of us.
 
DeepState said:
In relation to the following:

+ Some bad eggs within a religious community should not result in all being tarnished
+ That religion is the key cause of atrocities
+ warfare in the name of religion
+ that most of us are peace-loving, with many followers of religion being of like mind, and just want to get on with our lives

It is a recording of a response to a question from a Muslim lady who is a US citizen within a conservative forum addressing the deaths of four Americans in Benghazi, Libya. She is the sole Muslim in the audience.

I found it disturbing but impactful. I actually do not agree with the implications of the panelist's powerful response for the problem of Muslim terrorism (which can be taken as religious extremism/fundamentalism in general for this context). Nonetheless, here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTovydgX2NU
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True but I think VC was referring to Religion as an institution.

As an organised institution, the Church/Temple/Mosque all are pretty intolerant and cruel.

I generally like Buddhism, but that's probably because I haven't known any case where it was used to wage wars... maybe the fake monks, in some instances, during the Vietnam War burning themselves...

True that a lot if not all social and racial genocide and the likes were done by those abusing the name of, and their position in, a religious organisation... But that is only possible because of the structure and belief systems that dictate faith over reason.

I don't think any Atheist or Agnostic would care or blame religious people for genocide or sexual abuses and crimes committed by religious bad-apples... we only raise the issue when people start to try and reason and prove the existence of God, to get people to join or convert to find the "truth".
 
Julia said:
cynic, the question was directed by Artist to Tink. Much less asking you to expand anything that you have said.
My interpretation, and what I responded to, was essentially supporting bellenuit's earlier observation that Tink would issue a "hear, hear" for any post at all which even remotely appeared to support religion.

I have to confess I have insufficient interest to carefully read all the posts in this thread, many of which seem to be repetitive and non-productive. Honestly, I really don't understand what you're saying at times, but that's perhaps my lack of comprehension.

But I'm not at all asking you to go over anything. Rather, echoing the requests of others for Tink to aid those of us who are not sure what you're saying by sharing with us those parts of your remarks which apparently she comprehends more clearly than some of the rest of us.
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Thanks for clarifying your reasoning Julia.

I suspect that some (not all) members may have been targetting that particular poster on account of her glowing support for my participation in this thread.

If my suspicions prove to be correct those posters can anticipate my continued disclosure of controversial (and therefore uncomfortable) perspectives on reality, theology, philosophy and contemporary science.
 
btw, should we take the length of this discussion as a sign that the market is too high and there's nothing interesting going on?
 
bellenuit said:
Pat Robertson tells mother: Your son’s stomach pains are caused by a witch ancestor

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/...stomach-pains-are-caused-by-a-witch-ancestor/
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Pat is one of those nut jobs with a microphone.

I saw a clip of him on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart where he's shown as saying something like "God told me, and if i heard him correctly..."... from which Stewart stare at the screen and after a pause... "if you hear God correctly? If God spoke to you, what other more important things could you be doing to not hear him correctly?...

Anyway, goes on and old patty blame hurricanes on the US accepting gay marriages, so God's not happy and punish everyone in those area, within the US... haha
 
luutzu said:
1. True but I think VC was referring to Religion as an institution.

2. As an organised institution, the Church/Temple/Mosque all are pretty intolerant and cruel.

3. I generally like Buddhism, but that's probably because I haven't known any case where it was used to wage wars... maybe the fake monks, in some instances, during the Vietnam War burning themselves...

4. True that a lot if not all social and racial genocide and the likes were done by those abusing the name of, and their position in, a religious organisation... But that is only possible because of the structure and belief systems that dictate faith over reason.

5. I don't think any Atheist or Agnostic would care or blame religious people for genocide or sexual abuses and crimes committed by religious bad-apples... we only raise the issue when people start to try and reason and prove the existence of God, to get people to join or convert to find the "truth".
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1. This wasn't all about VC. It relates to statements and positions proffered by quite a few, very smart, people on this thread.

2. There we go, a generalization and profiling. The type of bigotry that causes a lot of harm. I would say that bigotry is actually the most dangerous behavior we do. You need to dehumanize a enemy to wage war. Relax about the fact I just called you a bigot. I must be too, just in some place that seems really natural to do so to me without knowing it.

3. Already addressed.

4. Racial genocide is racial. Sometimes it has a religious label attached. This may be narrative fallacy. Correlation rather than causality.

5. You don't speak to many people, I think. Given my screw up with VC and special forces, you're now going to tell me you are Kim Kardashian aren't you.
 
cynic said:
So I take it that my reference to the date and thread where the discourse commenced, was too difficult for someone with "special forces" training to follow.
I think I can also recall mentioning the advanced search feature of ASF. Perhaps it's just a little too advanced for some posters.





I would normally ask how anybody in their right mind would even consider continuing to issue questions to a person they consider dishonest and painful to converse with. I would usually wonder what possible upside could there be for such a person if they were in their right mind! However, I don't believe I need to ask this question for reasons that have long since become blatantly apparent.

As stated previously:
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Well i did fear i would waste 30mins or more trawling through your nonsensical rambling when all I wanted was the verse.

And as Julia said, we directed it at tink, I wanted tink to read the actual verse and explain how it meant what you said it meant, that way I was hoping she would realise the large amount of interpretation games she had to play to bend and stretch the actual meaning of the verse to get to chromosomes and realise its nothing more than trying to back stitch meaning onto old texts that was never originally intended.

But yes you are painful to converse with, and your dishonest style is frustrating, hence I didnt originally pose the question to you, you just jumped in again without providing the information asked for.
 
luutzu said:
btw, should we take the length of this discussion as a sign that the market is too high and there's nothing interesting going on?
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Lol, its a sign that I'm fully invested, down to the bare minimum cash holdings i like to keep,
 
cynic said:
Thanks for clarifying your reasoning Julia.

I suspect that some (not all) members may have been targetting that particular poster on account of her glowing support for my participation in this thread.

If my suspicions prove to be correct those posters can anticipate my continued disclosure of controversial (and therefore uncomfortable) perspectives on reality, theology, philosophy and contemporary science.
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Value Collector said:
Well i did fear i would waste 30mins or more trawling through your nonsensical rambling so when all I wanted was the verse.

And as Julia said, we directed it at tink, I wanted tink to read the actual verse and explain how it meant what you said it meant, that way I was hoping she would realise the large amount of interpretation games she had to play to bend and stretch the actual meaning of the verse to get to chromosomes and realise its nothing more than trying to back stitch meaning onto old texts that was never originally intended.

But yes you are painful to converse with, and your dishonest style is frustrating, hence I didnt originally pose the question to you, you just jumped in again without providing the information asked for.
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Suspicion confirmed!!!
 
DeepState said:
1. This wasn't all about VC. It relates to statements and positions proffered by quite a few, very smart, people on this thread.

2. There we go, a generalization and profiling. The type of bigotry that causes a lot of harm. I would say that bigotry is actually the most dangerous behavior we do. You need to dehumanize a enemy to wage war. Relax about the fact I just called you a bigot. I must be too, just in some place that seems really natural to do so to me without knowing it.

3. Already addressed.

4. Racial genocide is racial. Sometimes it has a religious label attached. This may be narrative fallacy. Correlation rather than causality.

5. You don't speak to many people, I think. Given my screw up with VC and special forces, you're now going to tell me you are Kim Kardashian aren't you.
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You have too rosy a picture of organised religious institutions.

Where were the "half-caste" Aborigines sent to I wonder; What does the phrase "for God and King" meant when Britain and other Europeans colonised the "savages", waging "Holy Wars" and the Crusades to Jerusalem ... is that racial or religious genocide, the chicken or the egg i supposed.

How is it "narrative fallacy" when religion were being used in just about all of these genocides? Is it not organised, institutionalised, religion being use as a tool of state? And doesn't that make it true that organised religion are often cruel?
 
DeepState said:
5. You don't speak to many people, I think. Given my screw up with VC and special forces, you're now going to tell me you are Kim Kardashian aren't you.
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No, not Kim... I'm sexier. I'm Thomas Jefferson. :)

You'd be suprised the things you could learn and do from watching youtube.
 
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