Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Religion IS crazy!

Jump to new
Value Collector said:
1, The theory of evolution doesn't say something comes from nothing.

2, the theory of evolution doesn't say life can come from non life

the theory of evolution doesn't start until after self replicating molecules have arrived.

But doesn't your creation account depend on god making things from nothing and then turning non- life into life?

the Bible account says god made man (life) from dust (non life), So doesn't your own god hypothesis relies on both of your points being possible?
Click to expand...


Then how did these self-replicating molecules "arrive"?
You can't just make up that they were there if there was no creator to put them there!
There is zero scientific basis for saying that they were there in the first place. It's ridiculous.

I don't understand your dogma.

If there really is a GOD. Who created the entire universe and was eternal and created the laws of the universe and science, you think there really is a concern about how he could create us!?
 
Value Collector,

You are wasting your time providing any evidence in support of evolution to Pav. He bases his rejections on material from "Answers in Genesis" which rejects outright any evidence that contradicts the Bible. This has been the case several times before when evolution has been discussed. Provide evidence and he will just respond that you are lazy and haven't researched what (creation) science opinion is on your evidence and will simply dismiss it off-hand without consideration.

You just have to look at that website to see why providing scientific evidence to them is a complete waste of time.

This is from the General section of their Statement of Faith.

By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the scriptural record.

https://answersingenesis.org/about/faith/

As a mission statement, that is the clearest example that their goal is to pursue wilful ignorance.

You will find that as soon as things get uncomfortable for Pav, he will signal his intent to depart the thread for a period as the thread no longer serves a useful purpose.
 
pavilion103 said:
Then how did these self-replicating molecules "arrive"?
Click to expand...

I don't know for sure, But there is some very good hypothesis, and its been shown that their building blocks can be formed given certain condition, and non living self replicating molecules exist eg crystals.


You can't just make up that they were there if there was no creator to put them there!
Click to expand...

We don't need to "Make Up" self replicating molecules because they exist everywhere, you are made of them.

But just because we don't know where the first one came from, doesn't mean we should assume a magic god.


There is zero scientific basis for saying that they were there in the first place. It's ridiculous
Click to expand...
.

That's not what I am saying, the chemical elements that make up life are abundant in the universe, and were created in high mass stars, these elements later made all sorts of chemical molecules that exist on earth eg water, carbon dioxide etc. All I am saying is that at some stage some molecules formed and became self replicating and started an unbroken chain of replication and mutation which was guided by natural selection and that is how we got here today.

I don't understand your dogma.
Click to expand...

probably because its not dogma, Its science.
If there really is a GOD. Who created the entire universe and was eternal and created the laws of the universe and science, you think there really is a concern about how he could create us
Click to expand...

that's a big IF though isn't it.

So far everything that we have given supernatural explanations have turned out to be natural when we discover the actual cause, eg lightning.
 
bellenuit said:
He bases his rejections on material from "Answers in Genesis" which rejects outright any evidence that contradicts the Bible.

As a mission statement, that is the clearest example that their goal is to pursue wilful ignorance.

You will find that as soon as things get uncomfortable for Pav, he will signal his intent to depart the thread for a period as the thread no longer serves a useful purpose.
Click to expand...

Yeah I am familiar with those guys.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
pavilion103 said:
If there really is a GOD. Who created the entire universe and was eternal and created the laws of the universe and science, you think there really is a concern about how he could create us!?
Click to expand...

I can say the same thing.

If there really is a natural process. That created the entire universe and was eternal and created the laws of the universe and science, you think there really is a concern about how it could create us.

____

What you have to understand is that our bodies are simply some complex self replicating chemical molecules, that rely on sustaining chemical reactions. ( if you don't believe that, hold your breath and see how long your body can deal without oxygen to continue its sustaining chemical reactions)

All of the chemical elements needed to sustain life are abundant, we know how they were created, and as far as we can see it didn't require a god.
 
bellenuit said:
You will find that as soon as things get uncomfortable for Pav, he will signal his intent to depart the thread for a period as the thread no longer serves a useful purpose.
Click to expand...

Or too boring. This nonsense has been rehashed over and over on this thread for six years and to my knowledge neither the religious nor the atheists have managed a single conversion to their ideologies. I think they just enjoy arguing. Both sides see it as a crutch.

For decades atheistic communism was used by the Russian people as a crutch, but when the wall fell down they started flocking back to church.
 
bellenuit said:
You will find that as soon as things get uncomfortable for Pav, he will signal his intent to depart the thread for a period as the thread no longer serves a useful purpose.
Click to expand...

Yep, that’s the old Pav’s usual style alright......when he’s getting outgunned in a debate he runs away, only to return at a later date despite having declared that he’s finished with this thread.

I’d love to see him explain who or what made that God of his!:)
 
Calliope said:
I think they just enjoy arguing.

.
Click to expand...

I actually just enjoy clearing up peoples misunderstandings, Evolution is got to be one of the most misunderstood concepts around, So when I see somebody banding around a misconception I will try and clear that up for them.
 
Value Collector said:
I actually just enjoy clearing up peoples misunderstandings, Evolution is got to be one of the most misunderstood concepts around, So when I see somebody banding around a misconception I will try and clear that up for them.
Click to expand...

I know you enjoy badgering others, but other people's beliefs are none of your business nor mine unless they they try to inflict them them on us.
 
Calliope said:
I know you enjoy badgering others, but other people's beliefs are none of your business nor mine unless they they try to inflict them them on us.
Click to expand...

My comments are normally in relation to subjects others have brought up in this public forum, If people don't want to discuss their beliefs, then they shouldn't bring them up in a discussion forum.

I don't door knock people, I don't send mail or cold call, all I do is discuss subjects others have brought up in this public forum, as I said if people don't want their beliefs discussed, they don't have to take part.

But, look, if people actually care if their beliefs are true, then they should be able to justify them in a rational debate. If they don't care if they are true, then that's fine too, but keep them to yourself, and don't discriminate against others because of them.
 
SirRumpole said:
How can we say ?
Click to expand...

Well perhaps we should find out before we generate a hypothesis which relies on a being existing outside space and time.

the "god did it" answer, doesn't really answer anything. It's really a useless answer, to a complex and interesting question.

the fact is we don't know if anything can exist outside of space and time, So by definition we don't know if a god exists, because if it did, it would have to exist outside of space and time.

Saying "I don't know" is much better than saying "I know god did it", because really you don't know if its even possible for a god to exist, and saying "god did it" shuts down the need for inquiry, and hinders us finding out the real answers to these questions.
 
Value Collector said:
My comments are normally in relation to subjects others have brought up in this public forum, If people don't want to discuss their beliefs, then they shouldn't bring them up in a discussion forum.
Click to expand...

Fair enough...I just find it boring. Yeah, yeah, I know. The solution is to ignore the thread. I'll butt out and leave you to it.
 
Calliope said:
I know you enjoy badgering others, but other people's beliefs are none of your business nor mine unless they they try to inflict them them on us.
Click to expand...
I've not seen VC 'badgering others' at all. What I've seen is someone responding to various statements by others in a rational and objective way.

Yes, the discussion has been raging impotently for many years, but VC has not been part of it until recently.
I welcome his input, particularly when it comes to challenging the view that the Bible and/or the sayings of Jesus are the only real truths.
 
Top