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Racial abuse

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Well if you all think racism is a one way street, just walk through a suburb or town where there are a high density of aboriginal residents.
 
banco said:
You can play spot the oldies in this thread:
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Better watch it, banco. The politically correct, if so inclined, might designate your comment as ageist.
Plenty of baby boomers on this site who might choose to be offended, given the propensity for offence to be taken these days.

I'm trying to understand what actually constitutes abuse. It seems terms referring to 'ape', 'gorilla' etc are only offensive if applied to aboriginal people. Not at all if applied to a white person, eg Tony Abbott.

Then general pejorative comments are just fine, eg alleging someone is dumb or stupid, even a troll, as long as there is no implied racial element?

I'm with Bill. Why can't we communicate without insulting others, even when we disagree with them?
 
The races are different why deny it, black Americans are superior at many sports , Tiger Woods is as good as it gets in golf, and music, well the genius of Stevie Wonder, all the Motown groups and on it goes.

There's a group called The Average White Band .... why ? because they are so damned good you'd think they were black.

Not to mention the President of the United States.

So here we have an AFL footballer running to mummy to dob in a 13 year old kid for calling him an ape............weak, just weak.
 
MrBurns said:
The races are different why deny it, black Americans are superior at many sports , Tiger Woods is as good as it gets in golf, and music, well the genius of Stevie Wonder, all the Motown groups and on it goes.

There's a group called The Average White Band .... why ? because they are so damned good you'd think they were black.

Not to mention the President of the United States.

So here we have an AFL footballer running to mummy to dob in a 13 year old kid for calling him an ape............weak, just weak.
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It's a bit like they made a movie "White men can't jump" nobody had a problem with it.

I wonder what would be said if they made a movie "Black men can't swim" :D
 
Julia said:
I'm trying to understand what actually constitutes abuse. It seems terms referring to 'ape', 'gorilla' etc are only offensive if applied to aboriginal people. Not at all if applied to a white person, eg Tony Abbott.
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IMO it is a combination of the words said, to whom they are said and how they are said.

A few have commented that they have been called pommie ba****** many times in Australia and they don't complain about it and, as an Irishman, I too have been called names that are at face value derogatory and haven't felt a need to complain about them. But these are names used among perceived equals and are said more in camaraderie than in hatred. It is just meaningless banter among friends and colleagues and is part of an Anglo/Irish/Australian (and I assume Kiwi) vernacular within certain groups.

Where they become offensive is when used against ethnic groups that have a history of disadvantage (even though maybe not today) and when the words themselves are those very same words that were used as a put down of those groups in the past. Obvious examples are using "n****" or "boy" in reference to an African American in particular or even any black person by extension. "Ape" could fall into this category but would be at the least extreme end of the scale and in the example under discussion may very well be perceived as an insult by the receiver but not intended as an insult by the deliverer, particularly when delivered by one so young. She may have intended to just rile the opposing players to put them off their game (as often is the case when opposing players are near the other team's supporters, particularly when about to take a free) and would have shouted it at any other Swans player. Did she actually even know Goodes was aboriginal or of aboriginal descent. I didn't, until yesterday.

The third element is how they are said. Whereas an Englishman may not be offended by being called a pommie b****** and an Irishman might put up with being called a stupid Paddy when said inoffensively by mates and work colleagues, they might be very offended when the same words are said maliciously by a boss who they perceive as always down on them. It moves from the realm of taking a joke to being expected to put up with s***. Reacting negatively against the former would be seen in poor taste, but would be lauded in the latter situation.
 
Julia said:
I'm trying to understand what actually constitutes abuse.
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It's considered abuse if the abuser's perceived status is significantly higher than the one on the receiving end of the abuse.

It all hinges around status and power.

In a way, by being offended, Goodes has strengthened a belief that his race is inferior. By being offended, he is saying "I feel inferior". Had he been able to say "whatever, I'm not fussed", this would carry a strong implication of equal status....which is actually what he wants. He wants to feel equal to or better than his fellow man (we all do unfortunately).
 
bellenuit said:
The third element is how they are said. Whereas an Englishman may not be offended by being called a pommie b****** and an Irishman might put up with being called a stupid Paddy when said inoffensively by mates and work colleagues, they might be very offended when the same words are said maliciously by a boss who they perceive as always down on them. It moves from the realm of taking a joke to being expected to put up with s***. Reacting negatively against the former would be seen in poor taste, but would be lauded in the latter situation.
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So where does a 13 year old girl fall into that example?
I'm not saying she was right or that it was acceptable, what I'm saying is you could bring the country to a standstill, if everyone gets precious about racial vilification.
At the moment only the aboriginal community seem to be taking it onboard, if all non 'Australians' take it onboard the country will shut down.
Like yourself I have taken a lot of 'stick' over the years, I still have an accent, therefore I still cop it.
I think the best thing for everyone to do would be to complain. Let's see how that works

I would love to hear what Tony Liberatore was called, not saying it was right, but lets not say it's race specific.
 
sptrawler said:
So where does a 13 year old girl fall into that example?
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One can't really tell as we really don't know her true motivation for saying it. My guess is that she was just heckling the opposing players and wasn't making a comment on Goodes aboriginality. IMO Goodes should have let it pass once he realised how young she was.
 
Gringotts Bank said:
It's considered abuse if the abuser's perceived status is significantly higher than the one on the receiving end of the abuse.

It all hinges around status and power.

In a way, by being offended, Goodes has strengthened a belief that his race is inferior. By being offended, he is saying "I feel inferior". Had he been able to say "whatever, I'm not fussed", this would carry a strong implication of equal status....which is actually what he wants. He wants to feel equal to or better than his fellow man (we all do unfortunately).
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Good point.
 
Gringotts Bank said:
It's considered abuse if the abuser's perceived status is significantly higher than the one on the receiving end of the abuse.

It all hinges around status and power.

In a way, by being offended, Goodes has strengthened a belief that his race is inferior. By being offended, he is saying "I feel inferior". Had he been able to say "whatever, I'm not fussed", this would carry a strong implication of equal status....which is actually what he wants. He wants to feel equal to or better than his fellow man (we all do unfortunately).
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MrBurns said:
Good point.
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Either of you GB or Mr Burns happen to catch Adam Goodes interview with the media? I think it was on the morning after but might have been replayed at various times.
 
bellenuit said:
One can't really tell as we really don't know her true motivation for saying it. My guess is that she was just heckling the opposing players and wasn't making a comment on Goodes aboriginality. IMO Goodes should have let it pass once he realised how young she was.
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I agree with you, also if any race can scream racial vilification, it's the Irish. They cop more racist jokes, tags, undeserved slurs, than anyone. Well maybe not as many as blondes.lol
 
sptrawler said:
I agree with you, also if any race can scream racial vilification, it's the Irish. They cop more racist jokes, tags, undeserved slurs, than anyone. Well maybe not as many as blondes.lol
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And they don't like it. Call it British propaganda.
 
sptrawler said:
I agree with you, also if any race can scream racial vilification, it's the Irish. They cop more racist jokes, tags, undeserved slurs, than anyone. Well maybe not as many as blondes.lol
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The problem that they have run into in the past is that when they attempt to defend their people, heritage, country or history they are branded as terrorists by the invaders so they probably just shrug it off and get on with life.
 
Boggo said:
The problem that they have run into in the past is that when they attempt to defend their people, heritage, country or history they are branded as terrorists by the invaders so they probably just shrug it off and get on with life.
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Actually all the Irish people I know are magic, have a great sense of humour and tell the best Irish jokes.
 
sptrawler said:
I agree with you, also if any race can scream racial vilification, it's the Irish. They cop more racist jokes, tags, undeserved slurs, than anyone. Well maybe not as many as blondes.lol
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I'd pity a blond Irish girl if there were any. But we know all Irish girls are redheads.:)
 
sptrawler said:
Actually all the Irish people I know are magic, have a great sense of humour and tell the best Irish jokes.
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Agree with that.

FlyingFox said:
Not suggesting you do this but have you ever mentioned the whole northern Ireland situation to any of them?
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I have, not an issue really from what I have seen, they would rather just get with it and have a beer while watching the rugby.

bellenuit said:
I'd pity a blond Irish girl if there were any. But we know all Irish girls are redheads.:)
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Complete BS.
 
Knobby22 said:
And they don't like it. Call it British propaganda.
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It depends. A lot of the really good Irish jokes originated in Ireland as Kerryman jokes (a county on Ireland's south west coast). I will always laugh at a good original Irish joke, but nothing peeves me off more than someone saying to me "did you hear about the Irishman who blah blah blah" when it is a joke I heard a million times. You just wonder where the guy was for the last 50 years that he thinks (it's always a he) it's an original joke.

I suppose in a way, getting back to insults, there is a 4th criteria in addition to; what is said, to whom it is said and how it is said; and that is by whom it is said. Clearly a white person calling an African American a "n*****" is almost always insulting, but it is not uncommon for one African American to refer to another African American that way and that is not perceived as an insult (listen to how some black comedians talk). So the same may be said about other ethnic groups. Many Irish have no problems with Irish jokes told by friends or work mates, no matter what the nationality of the teller, if they perceive it as just being meant as a joke. However, if it is told by someone who they don't know, they would not be as amused if the stranger were English rather than anyone else. But that is just a by-product of our shared history.

I have rarely come across an Irish person who sees it as British propaganda. Rarely, but I have met a few. The thing is, those I have met who regard it as British propaganda usually come across after a short conversation with them as actual stupid Paddys (yes, there are a few).
 
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