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Racial abuse

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Agree with your post bellenuit, I think she was young and probably just using the word without thinking.
I havent watched any of the interviews, just my opinion.

We have all experienced some abuse in our time, but going by appearances, I would say the dark skinned, not just the aborigines, and the asians would have copped the most.

I agree that at the end of the day, everyone has to help themselves, no one else can help you.
 
bellenuit said:
IMO it is a combination of the words said, to whom they are said and how they are said.
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Thank you, bellenuit, for typically constructive remarks.

So if I call a white person a 'stupid bastard' that's OK, but it's not OK if directed to a black person?
Or is "stupid bastard" sufficiently devoid of racial implications to be OK?
(I'd have thought to call anyone an ape or a gorilla was insulting and abusive, but so far it seems that's not so, and only offensive if applied to an indigenous person.

Gringotts Bank said:
In a way, by being offended, Goodes has strengthened a belief that his race is inferior. By being offended, he is saying "I feel inferior". Had he been able to say "whatever, I'm not fussed", this would carry a strong implication of equal status....which is actually what he wants.
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Good point.
Usually people issuing abuse of any kind toward any other person are saying more about themselves than their intended target.
 
Julia said:
So if I call a white person a 'stupid bastard' that's OK, but it's not OK if directed to a black person?
Or is "stupid bastard" sufficiently devoid of racial implications to be OK?
(I'd have thought to call anyone an ape or a gorilla was insulting and abusive, but so far it seems that's not so, and only offensive if applied to an indigenous person.


.
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No you can call a blackie any name you want it's more the intent behind it. I don't find being called any name offensive really unless the intent is pretty obvious.
Adding 'black' to 'stupid bastard' probably raises an eyebrow.
I was at a restaurant a while ago with some of my workers and were told
"I'm sorry we don't serve your kind in here"
While the statement had no swearing It's what it was implying not just about me, but about my family and a whole race that was offensive.


Just as the usual suspect have lined ups; the hand wringers, the PC brigade, the overly sensitive, the bleeding hearts and the alarmists have squealed like little piggies too.

Could have named them from the start.
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Seriously all I've seen is every whitey scratching his head clueless as to what all the fuss is about for six pages.
I don't really support special treatment, welfare or any of the other BS associated with the PC brigade as I believe it just holds cultures back. I'm not blind either plenty of darkies get into trouble with the law or don't work.
I am not sensitive to name calling but the refusal of service, treatment in workplaces, or being overlooked (just recently at hospital with an african friend) yes it gets annoying.

Here is an experiment for those who don't get it. Write 'I'm a fu*king c*ck head' across your forehead in permanent texture. Make sure you write on the wife and kids as well. Now go about your daily life. Getting stares walking down the street yep brush it off. People giving you a hard time and laughing about it, keep it up. Getting asked to leave places or refused service because of it. yup no prob. Kids getting drilled for it at school, suck it up. Docs taking your kids away because obviously you are a bad parent yeah ok probably time to stop.
While it's a crass example this is probably the closest I can think of explaining dealing with racism.

As for Goodes I support his decision, not so much the media who ran with it. Honestly this thread has babbled on as much as news ltd
 
Julia said:
So if I call a white person a 'stupid bastard' that's OK, but it's not OK if directed to a black person?
Or is "stupid bastard" sufficiently devoid of racial implications to be OK?
(I'd have thought to call anyone an ape or a gorilla was insulting and abusive, but so far it seems that's not so, and only offensive if applied to an indigenous person.
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IMO calling anyone a stupid bastard is not OK, whether the person is white or black, unless it is quite obvious from the context that it is said in jest. The examples I gave of stupid Paddy and pommie bastard are as I mentioned expressions within the vernacular of a certain group of Australians, particularly those from an Anglo/Irish background and are said in camaraderie rather than malice. Ape is borderline and is more likely to be offensive if said to a black person for the historical reasons that others mentioned. It's ambiguous as the word itself can imply backwardness as in neanderthal but also imply someone who is not acting seriously when they should be, as in aping around. If I wanted to tell a black person to be serious, I would certainly avoid calling him an ape and use words that are less likely to be construed as offensive.

That's just my opinion. I think the how something is said will probably be the biggest determinant of whether something should be taken as an insult or not, but what is said is maybe equally as important in relation to particular ethnic groups.

That been said, there will always be people who WANT to be offended, such as some feminists always seeing an insult in anything Tony Abbott mutters.
 
bellenuit said:
That been said, there will always be people who WANT to be offended, such as some feminists always seeing an insult in anything Tony Abbott mutters.
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+1. Perfectly said.

In Goodes' case I think he chose to be offended. Maybe the fact it was indigenous round made him a little more sensitive than would normally be the case.

I am sure their was a lot of emotion in the week preceeding.
 
I can see a new blockbuster film from all of this.

Planet of the Collingwood supporters.
 
Julia said:
Thank you, bellenuit, for typically constructive remarks.

So if I call a white person a 'stupid bastard' that's OK, but it's not OK if directed to a black person?
Or is "stupid bastard" sufficiently devoid of racial implications to be OK?
(I'd have thought to call anyone an ape or a gorilla was insulting and abusive, but so far it seems that's not so, and only offensive if applied to an indigenous person.

.
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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/context

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWKyDGGptA4
 
moXJO said:
I was at a restaurant a while ago with some of my workers and were told
"I'm sorry we don't serve your kind in here"
While the statement had no swearing It's what it was implying not just about me, but about my family and a whole race that was offensive.
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Unbelievable, moXJO. If you have to put up with that sort of s**t, I admire all the more your objectivity on the matter overall.:xyxthumbs

bellenuit said:
IMO calling anyone a stupid bastard is not OK, whether the person is white or black, unless it is quite obvious from the context that it is said in jest. The examples I gave of stupid Paddy and pommie bastard are as I mentioned expressions within the vernacular of a certain group of Australians, particularly those from an Anglo/Irish background and are said in camaraderie rather than malice.
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Yep, understood. I was talking about the context being the intent to offend.

That been said, there will always be people who WANT to be offended, such as some feminists always seeing an insult in anything Tony Abbott mutters.
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It's this increasing tendency that makes some of us less likely to be sympathetic to claims of abuse and offence.
Viz as a good example, the Prime Minister's faux offence taken at what she attempted to portray as misogynist behaviour from Tony Abbott. It was politically confected and without basis.
 
springhill said:
+1. Perfectly said.

In Goodes' case I think he chose to be offended. Maybe the fact it was indigenous round made him a little more sensitive than would normally be the case.

I am sure their was a lot of emotion in the week preceeding.
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I wondered that, about it being indigenous round. I am not a fan of indigenous round at all, I think it is divisive. We are supposed to see everyone as equal and yet they single out players from a single racial group for a specific round, totally counter productive to watch they hope to achieve IMO. Maybe it gives people a false sense of security too, many people were shocked that there was a case of racism during indigenous round, including Adam Goodes. Like I said before there will always be idiots, if the AFL think having an indigenous round will eliminate every single last one of them they are very naïve. It turns out my team, Hawthorn, has the most number of indigenous players. I never knew that until this week because it never occurred to me to add them up!! Why did I never add them up? Because I don't care what race they are, to me they are just great players and I love them because they play for my team, end of story.
 
moXJO said:
Here is an experiment for those who don't get it. Write 'I'm a fu*king c*ck head' across your forehead in permanent texture. Make sure you write on the wife and kids as well. Now go about your daily life. Getting stares walking down the street yep brush it off. People giving you a hard time and laughing about it, keep it up. Getting asked to leave places or refused service because of it. yup no prob. Kids getting drilled for it at school, suck it up. Docs taking your kids away because obviously you are a bad parent yeah ok probably time to stop.
While it's a crass example this is probably the closest I can think of explaining dealing with racism.
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That sums it up very well. Thanks for sharing.

I am originally a South African (moved here when I was twelve) and witnessed Apartheid. The most hated words for black South Africans were if a white South African (especially a police man) called them a 'bantu' or a 'kaffir'. 'Bantu' was the official word used on black identity documents to designate that you were a third class citizen (behind 'whites' and 'coloureds/Indians'). 'Kaffir' was a word that originally meant 'heathen' or 'ungodly' and represented the notion that black Africans were a lower 'species' than whites. Both words were another tool in the tool box of a racially-based system that gave white South Africans all the power and black South African no power. Thankfully this system has now been dismantled but it took black South Africans standing up to the regime to do so.

By the way, I am originally Afrikaans so this racial profiling was in my family's 'favour' at the time. And yes, certain members of my immediate family were 'old school' Afrikaaners of the 'bible in one hand, whip in the other' variety.
So I understand the power of racism which is why I cannot stand it. Ironically, when I came to Australia, all the kids at school used to call me 'racist' and make endless jokes about 'Lethal Weapon II'! You know the line'; 'diplomatic immunity'. That sucked at the time.

By the way Julia, there was once a time where calling someone a 'bastard', especially if they were conceived outside of wedlock, would have caused them enormous distress. So it is the context and what it represents in a particular society at a particular point in time, that counts.
 
Bushman said:
By the way Julia, there was once a time where calling someone a 'bastard', especially if they were conceived outside of wedlock, would have caused them enormous distress. So it is the context and what it represents in a particular society at a particular point in time, that counts.
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Sure, not really any need to 'explain' that to me, Bushman. And before you get any more patronising, I used the example in a phrase intended to be offensive, so your point is somewhat lost on me.
 
Bushman said:
That sums it up very well. Thanks for sharing.

I am originally a South African (moved here when I was twelve) and witnessed Apartheid. The most hated words for black South Africans were if a white South African (especially a police man) called them a 'bantu' or a 'kaffir'. 'Bantu' was the official word used on black identity documents to designate that you were a third class citizen (behind 'whites' and 'coloureds/Indians'). 'Kaffir' was a word that originally meant 'heathen' or 'ungodly' and represented the notion that black Africans were a lower 'species' than whites. Both words were another tool in the tool box of a racially-based system that gave white South Africans all the power and black South African no power. Thankfully this system has now been dismantled but it took black South Africans standing up to the regime to do so.

By the way, I am originally Afrikaans so this racial profiling was in my family's 'favour' at the time. And yes, certain members of my immediate family were 'old school' Afrikaaners of the 'bible in one hand, whip in the other' variety.
So I understand the power of racism which is why I cannot stand it. Ironically, when I came to Australia, all the kids at school used to call me 'racist' and make endless jokes about 'Lethal Weapon II'! You know the line'; 'diplomatic immunity'. That sucked at the time.

By the way Julia, there was once a time where calling someone a 'bastard', especially if they were conceived outside of wedlock, would have caused them enormous distress. So it is the context and what it represents in a particular society at a particular point in time, that counts.
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So from what you are saying, there is a strong reason to support more Somali refugees.
They are living in atrocious conditions and they have no hope of even reaching the people smugglers.
 
moXJO said:
Seriously all I've seen is every whitey scratching his head clueless as to what all the fuss is about for six pages.
I don't really support special treatment, welfare or any of the other BS associated with the PC brigade as I believe it just holds cultures back. I'm not blind either plenty of darkies get into trouble with the law or don't work.
I am not sensitive to name calling but the refusal of service, treatment in workplaces, or being overlooked (just recently at hospital with an african friend) yes it gets annoying.

Here is an experiment for those who don't get it. Write 'I'm a fu*king c*ck head' across your forehead in permanent texture. Make sure you write on the wife and kids as well. Now go about your daily life. Getting stares walking down the street yep brush it off. People giving you a hard time and laughing about it, keep it up. Getting asked to leave places or refused service because of it. yup no prob. Kids getting drilled for it at school, suck it up. Docs taking your kids away because obviously you are a bad parent yeah ok probably time to stop.
While it's a crass example this is probably the closest I can think of explaining dealing with racism.

As for Goodes I support his decision, not so much the media who ran with it. Honestly this thread has babbled on as much as news ltd
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Thank you. Agree 100% with everything you've said.
 
Empathy-the ability to put yourself into the other person's shoes.People are not born with empathy,it is something that is learned. .A few years ago most Australians could not understand why African Americans took offence at Black and White minstrel shows.For anyone with the ability to put oneself in their shoes ,it was a no-brainer.The relentless ,historical put-downs as inferior human beings was manifest.This is the same with Adam Goodes.Obvious to many-a mystery to others.
O,the humanity of it all!
 
If we allow the observation that in the context of footy barrackers insulting the opposition, the expression "ape" is not necessarily racist, the question arises: how did the athlete (and the chorus of baboons that is the Australian Media) know the heckler was a racist?

Answer: because she looked like one.

When you've figured that one out, you will realise that there's one category of person in this country whom it is perfectly acceptable to stereotype, to vilify, to scapegoat.

Welcome, my fellow Australians, to our future. If we let it be that way.
 
Here's a good post from The Drum on the ABC web site that sums it up correctly I think -

Thirteen year old children aren't usually publicly held to account for their actions as they are considered to have diminished responsibility because their brains aren't fully developed. Judges can tell many stories of people who did stupid things in their childhood but have gone on to lead productive and in some cases distinguished lives. Usually, no one thinks it would be fair to make people pay for the rest of their lives for the things they did as kids. This girl will though. Various commentators have already expressed the hope that the image of Goodes pointing at her will be brought out in 2033 in the same way the Winmar images from 1993 have been used. The girl will be 33 then.

The 13 girl was marched out of the stadium unaccompanied, interviewed by police for two hours on her own, named and shamed in the media and subject to vilification on internet forums. She has had her rights as a child violated and no one seems to care. We are constantly told that the rights of a child are paramount. Why is it different on this occasion?
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