Queensland Floods

[Julia]

I'm not in two minds on this.

Did civic planners really think that long term weather patterns would not come back to raise river levels at some stage?

Did people really think that they were taking any sort of risk planting a home in a flood zone?

Do you ever commit your entire life savings to a property without understanding the risks of natural disaster in that particular area?

I dare say the answers to above is NO.

If we claim sympathy for obvious potential of natural disaster we are just another remora....

Let's build a city on a fault line, or with no concrete, or in the path of the last 50 destructive hurricanes, or next to a river that floods, or ....

Take the pain I think.

It's almost like asking for compensation when your horse doesn't run in first.




I do send my condolences to those people who gambled and lost.

And to those people who didn't understand the odds.

Maybe I'm being harsh.

I'm with you here Kennas, both in your initial sentiments and then on wondering if I'm being unfair to take the view that people do have a responsibility to look into the viability of where they decide to live. For about an extra $100 before buying a property a solicitor will check out all you need to know if you don't feel able to do it yourself.

And for those who say they can't afford insurance, I looked up my insurance which is top available cover including flood (riverine excepted) and fusion. Also includes alternative accommodation if property is not habitable for any reason for as long as it takes to return property to original or better condition. This works out at less than $14 p.w. Many of the people who say they can't afford insurance would spend more than that at McDonalds or the RSL/pokies. And presumably a more modest policy would be a few dollars a week less.

I'm very pleased to hear Anna Bligh say today that the new enquiry/task force will be looking into whether people will actually be allowed to rebuild in these flood prone areas, or if they are, then there will perhaps need to be specific building codes which will ensure the houses are raised up considerably from current levels.

Exactly where in Australia (or even the world) is a place that everyone can live, that is safe from every natural disaster known (or unknown)? We have to live somewhere.

Certainly. But why would you choose to live in an area which is known for being flooded?

And why in the world would someone who has lost everything, including family, not welcome counselling?

Probably right, but I'm guessing Calliope was referring to how much of an industry it has become. You only have to have some kid witnessing an unpleasant event for a team of counsellors to be summoned.

And actually I heard a discussion on ABC radio recently where a trauma expert suggested in some cases more harm than good can be done by rehashing a traumatic event.

Lastly, I take exception at the comment about people being unable to read and write or understand certain information and the implication that they are stupid.

My father is NOT a stupid man. Yet he has problems with reading and writing. Why? Because he never had the opportunity - one year of schooling by correspondence was the limit of his childhood education. Despite this, he has endeavoured to improve himself and now trains others in his area of expertise.

That's a great credit to your father, White Crane. I've tutored in adult literacy for many years and know exactly what you mean. The loss of opportunity during the usual learning years is a huge disadvantage to overcome.

But I'm sure if your father wasn't sure of the meaning of something, he'd seek advice to clarify it, wouldn't he? I'm sure you'd be happy to help with some of the obscure wording in contracts for example.

It is not a perfect world and we can't have a perfect life. Really, I hope people can become just a little more tolerant and understanding.

It's a good point, and goes to what Kennas said about wondering if we were being too harsh.

I guess we're all possessed of different levels of practicality and sense of responsibility, presumably as a result of genes and upbringing.

Hopefully, if the current terrible events do nothing else, they might instigate in more people the need to be more thoughtful about where they live and how much they are able to insure against potential disaster.

But sincere apologies if you feel any remarks here have been discriminatory toward people like your father who sounds to me like someone to be very proud of.

 

[Calliope]

Lastly, I take exception at the comment about people being unable to read and write or understand certain information and the implication that they are stupid.

My father is NOT a stupid man. Yet he has problems with reading and writing. Why? Because he never had the opportunity - one year of schooling by correspondence was the limit of his childhood education. Despite this, he has endeavoured to improve himself and now trains others in his area of expertise.

I fail to see the relevance of your father's literacy. Anyone living on a flood plain who does not take out adequate flood cover is taking a calculated risk. It's like driving an uninsured vehicle. Those who say "I thought I was covered' or "I didn't read the policy" lack all credibility.

If there is one certainty in this world it is that flood plains will be flooded sooner or later. That's why I got out, but whille I lived near the Brisbane River I ensured I was fully covered.

 

[Julia]

67% of inundated properties are uninsured. Unbelievable.
It's suggested at least 20% of these will default on their mortgage.
I'd have expected that 20% to be more.

 

[nioka]

How about a little less criticism and a little more help. A hell of a lot of these people are affected by an unusual event. This is not the result of a normal flood for the citizens of Toowoomba and Grantham. You cant make provision for that sort of event. Even the residents of Brisbane were led to believe that 1974 would never happen again.

Instead of using the web to talk to one another use the time,the web and your effort to do something positive. Or you can donate to:

Ballina East Lions Club Inc. Com a/c BSB 062502 A/c 28013264

They are raising funds to refit DONATED caranans to be GIVEN to Grantham residents that have lost their home. That is where the proceeds of my successful trade went to. That is where the proceeds of another trade today will also go.

So less talk, less criticism, a little compassion and more action.

 

[nioka]

67% of inundated properties are uninsured. Unbelievable.
It's suggested at least 20% of these will default on their mortgage.
I'd have expected that 20% to be more.

I thought that it was next to impossible to have a mortgage without having the property covered insurance wise.

 

[Mofra]

I thought that it was next to impossible to have a mortgage without having the property covered insurance wise.

Correct, but in my experience a mortgagor tends to be a little lax in reading the fineprint as well, so ensuring all types of flood are covered by a property would probably come a distant second priority for a loan salesman when compared to settling the loan.

Many lenders don't ask for insurance certificates after the first year of the mortgage anyway.

 

[nioka]

. Many lenders don't ask for insurance certificates after the first year of the mortgage anyway.

With their name on the policy they would know that the policy had not been renewed so they are equally responsible if the policy had lapsed aren't they?

 

[Calliope]

How about a little less criticism and a little more help. A hell of a lot of these people are affected by an unusual event. This is not the result of a normal flood for the citizens of Toowoomba and Grantham. You cant make provision for that sort of event.

Yes you can. Actually these are storm events and are covered by the usual household policy. Unfortunately many don't bother with insurance.

Even the residents of Brisbane were led to believe that 1974 would never happen again.

Who told you that? Nobody ever led me to believe that, and I lived near the river. We were given to understand that the dam would take 2 metres off a 1974 type flood, and it did.

So less talk, less criticism, a little compassion and more action.

I suggest you get off your soapbox and switch you campassion to the folks of the NSW Northern Rivers where there is plenty of work to be done.

 

[Macquack]

I suggest you get off your soapbox and switch you campassion to the folks of the NSW Northern Rivers where there is plenty of work to be done.

Your the one on the soapbox. Noika is actually doing something to help rather than just mouthing off about how it is tough luck for people without insurance.

 

[Happy]

I fail to see the relevance of your father's literacy. Anyone living on a flood plain who does not take out adequate flood cover is taking a calculated risk. It's like driving an uninsured vehicle. Those who say "I thought I was covered' or "I didn't read the policy" lack all credibility.

If there is one certainty in this world it is that flood plains will be flooded sooner or later. That's why I got out, but whille I lived near the Brisbane River I ensured I was fully covered.

I know youngsters that did not read single book last year, who maybe have skills to read and write, but for some reason don’t use, except maybe for Texting: lol ,xxx, ): and maybe few modified words: like: c u, gr8
4 u

In current: individual precious snowflakes society, that you cannot call fat person that is fat and not clever person that is not clever, suppose all we can do really is grab a broom and bucket and dig them out of the **** they got into.

Will they be clever enough to understand complex legal documents in not so distant future?

 

[Calliope]

Your the one on the soapbox. Noika is actually doing something to help rather than just mouthing off about how it is tough luck for people without insurance.

Yes, and he doesn't do good by stealth. If he hadn't told us we would never have known.

 

[nioka]

I suggest you get off your soapbox and switch you campassion to the folks of the NSW Northern Rivers where there is plenty of work to be done.

Sorry but I'll stay on the soap box. Somebody has to do more than just talk though. I spent the afternoon chasing up caravans, even got one donated to the cause.Only got home a little while ago, a big day for someone my age but still time for the soap box. Still got time to try and help someone worse off regardless of the possibility that they may have brought it on themselves.

I live on the northern rivers and know what has happened here. It is nothing like Grantham, Toowoomba and small villages in that area. That is why the Ballina people are happy to help out others. We help others that are worse off than ourselves regardless. Check out the other "flood" thread. I have offered to match dollar for dollar to $5,000 any donation to the caravan appeal that we are running if donations are made there and nominated as coming from these forums. Just as I do with my trading in shares, I put my money where my mouth is. Will you match me?. Will anyone match me?

 

[nioka]

Repeated from the other thread.

" Re: Donate a winning trade to the flood relief effort!
Consider donating to a campaign that is giving immediate help and not to funds that will become tied up in red tape and administration, may not be distributed for months and may not go 100% to the victims. The "buy caravans and donate them immediately to those that need a roof"campaign is one that I am donating to. Money can be donated to the caravan appeal to: Ballina East Lions Club Com Bank BSB062-502 A/c No 28013264. where all the money will be spent to buy caravans and accessories that will be sent to Grantham immediately.

I will guarantee to match dollar for dollar up to $5000 donated and specified as coming from this post."

 

[Smurf1976]

Someday, Brisbane will likely be substantially destroyed by a flood that far exceeds the recent one. It's a question of when, not if.

Likewise Hobart will someday probably be razed by a fire storm, something which has very nearly happened in the past. And of course there are countless small towns right across Austraila exposed to the same risk.

And Darwin probably will feel the full brunt of another cyclone sooner or later.

Now, do we simply abandon Brisbane, Hobart, Darwin and a few hundred towns across the country?

Do we then clear everything anywhere near the coast, including Sydney Harbour and the Gold Coast (amongst others) due to the risk of tsunami or being hit with a tropical cyclone?

And then, just when it seems safe, we find that winds equivalent to a cat 2 cyclone were actually recorded in Tasmania a few days after the Qld floods.

Building where natual disasters are unlikely sounds good in theory but is difficult to achieve in practice. There's basically nowhere in Vic or Tas that ticks all the boxes, nor does anywhere on the East, West or North coasts. Nor does anywhere on flat land inland.

We can't all live on a hill somewhere in outback South Australia. And of course if we did do that then we'd be living in one of the more lightning prone places on earth...

 

[Aussiejeff]

Someday, Brisbane will likely be substantially destroyed by a flood that far exceeds the recent one. It's a question of when, not if.

Likewise Hobart will someday probably be razed by a fire storm, something which has very nearly happened in the past. And of course there are countless small towns right across Austraila exposed to the same risk.

And Darwin probably will feel the full brunt of another cyclone sooner or later.

Now, do we simply abandon Brisbane, Hobart, Darwin and a few hundred towns across the country?

Do we then clear everything anywhere near the coast, including Sydney Harbour and the Gold Coast (amongst others) due to the risk of tsunami or being hit with a tropical cyclone?

And then, just when it seems safe, we find that winds equivalent to a cat 2 cyclone were actually recorded in Tasmania a few days after the Qld floods.

Building where natual disasters are unlikely sounds good in theory but is difficult to achieve in practice. There's basically nowhere in Vic or Tas that ticks all the boxes, nor does anywhere on the East, West or North coasts. Nor does anywhere on flat land inland.

We can't all live on a hill somewhere in outback South Australia. And of course if we did do that then we'd be living in one of the more lightning prone places on earth...

Good points. While pondering all these imponderables, let's not forget two of the major overhanging "threats" to the planet as a whole..

(1) Massive EMP blast from the sun that "might" cause total meltdown of the world's electricity any time sooner or later..

(2) Rogue asteroids and a variety of sundry and as yet unknown space bits that "might" collide with our very own dust mote any time sooner or later..

The Earth is a somewhat dangerous place. We are fortunate to exist here at our peril. Life as we know it in a geological time frame is a fragile, fleeting thing. So we may as well enjoy every day we can manage to scrape out of our personal existence - including the tough times.

Good luck to all

 

[nioka]

I suggest you get off your soapbox

This statement of yours still bugs me. Firstly coming from someone that consistantly uses a STOCK forum as a soapbox themselves for anything but stocks is the pot calling the kettle black.

Anyway what is a forum anyway. It IS a soap box. So I'm happy to let you stay on yours if you are happy to let me stay on mine.

P.S. any offer for the caravan appeal?.

 

[pedalofogus]

And for those who say they can't afford insurance, I looked up my insurance which is top available cover including flood (riverine excepted) and fusion. Also includes alternative accommodation if property is not habitable for any reason for as long as it takes to return property to original or better condition. This works out at less than $14 p.w. Many of the people who say they can't afford insurance would spend more than that at McDonalds or the RSL/pokies. And presumably a more modest policy would be a few dollars a week less.

That's the exact point that needs to be made here. It's not that they can't afford it, its that they didn't rate it as a high priority in their list of expenses.

I have 2 friends that live in the same street and both went under in the floods.

One of them earns about $50k per annum, and managed to fit into his budget the top of the line house and contents insurance cover including flood cover. He also manages to save about $500 per month and contributes that money to one of those Colonial Managed Funds every month. As a result, he lives a pretty modest lifestyle, buys second hand furniture off eBay, etc.

The other earns about $65k per annum, and to save money he did his house and contents insurance through that Youi mob. As a result, it doesn't have any flood cover, along with a number of other exclusions. He also went out in November and bought himself a $4k lounge and one of those new 3D televisions. He also spends every Saturday at the TAB losing his money and drinking his money.

As a result, the second bloke has spent the last week complaining about how he has lost everything, and how the government should pay for his house to be fixed up and replace his contents because there was no way he could afford the flood insurance on his wages.

The first bloke's insurance assessor has already been out and he will be receiving the money to rebuild and refurnish by the end of the month.

Why should these 2 guys end up in the same position after this flood when the first guy has gone without so much luxuries over the last 5 years to get himself where he is today, while the second guy has lived the 'high life' without even thinking about the future.

At the end of the day, people need to be accountable for their actions. We need to stop bailing out the 'stumblebums' while continuously stealing from the people who do the right thing. It's this sort of mentality that has resulted in a generation of people who don't take any responsibility, because they know someone will bail them out. Let them suffer! Throw a bit of chlorine in the gene pool!

 

[Calliope]

Anyway what is a forum anyway. It IS a soap box. So I'm happy to let you stay on yours if you are happy to let me stay on mine.

P.S. any offer for the caravan appeal?.

If you want to advertise what a great humanitarian you are, then go for it. Whether or not I have made a donation and to what fund is none of your business. However if you are to be believed your is much bigger.

 

[Lantern]

Great series of before and after pics here.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/infographics/qld-floods/beforeafter.htm

 

[Julia]

P.S. any offer for the caravan appeal?.

The people in charge of the recovery have strongly suggested donations should be of money for two reasons. 1. Money allows them to spend where the need is greatest and most appropriate. 2. Needed items can be bought in the local community thus propping up both morale and business recovery.

Have you checked with the places to which you intend to consign these caravans as to whether a suitable place is available for them, and for that matter, if they actually want them?