Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Queensland Floods

Jump to new
Julia said:
The people in charge of the recovery have strongly suggested donations should be of money for two reasons. 1. Money allows them to spend where the need is greatest and most appropriate. 2. Needed items can be bought in the local community thus propping up both morale and business recovery.

Have you checked with the places to which you intend to consign these caravans as to whether a suitable place is available for them, and for that matter, if they actually want them?
Click to expand...

Money donated is often only partly distributed. Take the bushfire appeal in Vic. Over a year since it happened and still not all distributed. I thought all ASFers knew that you didn't get value giving bureaucrats money to spend

And yes I am liasing with the people up there. They say send them up. They asked that we do not send furniture and white goods yet as they dont have anywhere to put them but vans , yes. The first two are organised for next week along with a garden shed. We also had a young lady give us her car, they said yes please. ( she is getting a new one, gave us the trade).

The reason why the people in charge of the recovery say cash is that it can be transferred electronically. They wouldnt know how to send a car. We have volunteers that will deliver it. Same goes for vans. With money the "recovery team" would spend the same money buying one van that we are using to buy two or three that will do the job.

P.S. Cant wait for ASFers, I have prepaid my $5000 of the deal to buy a van today at $5,500 which is going there on Tuesday or Wednesday next week. It was too good an offer to miss. It will be accompanied by another I bought yesterday. We also have had a couple of old vans donated. We are getting great value for our dollar.:banghead::banghead:
 
Calliope said:
However if you are to be believed your is much bigger.
Click to expand...
I would hope not. The biggest donation that we have had so far is from a 92 year old lady, a pensioner. She told me, actually apologised, that she couldnt afford cash but she looked in her linen cupboard for linen that was still new to use to help furnish a van and added crockery and cookware. That IS giving.:)
 
nioka said:
Money donated is often only partly distributed. Take the bushfire appeal in Vic. Over a year since it happened and still not all distributed. I thought all ASFers knew that you didn't get value giving bureaucrats money to spend

And yes I am liasing with the people up there. They say send them up. They asked that we do not send furniture and white goods yet as they dont have anywhere to put them but vans , yes. The first two are organised for next week along with a garden shed. We also had a young lady give us her car, they said yes please. ( she is getting a new one, gave us the trade).

The reason why the people in charge of the recovery say cash is that it can be transferred electronically. They wouldnt know how to send a car. We have volunteers that will deliver it. Same goes for vans. With money the "recovery team" would spend the same money buying one van that we are using to buy two or three that will do the job.

P.S. Cant wait for ASFers, I have prepaid my $5000 of the deal to buy a van today at $5,500 which is going there on Tuesday or Wednesday next week. It was too good an offer to miss. It will be accompanied by another I bought yesterday. We also have had a couple of old vans donated. We are getting great value for our dollar.:banghead::banghead:
Click to expand...

I have to agree with Julia, money is the way to go. I know of a few Caravan dealers in SE Qld that could desperately use the cash that they would make on a few sales of caravans. Jobs will be lost in those particular businesses if sales dont pick up.

Re your comment about the Vic Bush Fires, in my opinion it is a GOOD thing that they haven't spent all of the donation money yet. I think that too often after these sorts of things there is money (and donations of goods and services) that are floating around everywhere and end up going to the wrong places. I think the funds from the Vic Bushfires and now the QLD floods should be gradually disbursed to the community. In particular, funds should be retained for pschological councilling etc which will become a big thing a few years after the event.

By the way, what is the legal implications of the car that you guys are sending? What happens if it explodes and kills someone 2 days after it is handed over? Have the potential liability issues been considered? I hope a roadworthy certificate will be obtained before registering that NSW vehicle in QLD.
 
nioka said:
P.S. Cant wait for ASFers, I have prepaid my $5000 of the deal to buy a van today at $5,500 which is going there on Tuesday or Wednesday next week. It was too good an offer to miss. It will be accompanied by another I bought yesterday. We also have had a couple of old vans donated. We are getting great value for our dollar.:banghead::banghead:
Click to expand...

Why the head banging? Perhaps ASFers have no interest in building up your soaring ego. Most people I know have already given generously to the Premier's Fund.
 
You are a very spiteful person Calliope. Noika is a decent bloke going the extra mile to do the right thing, and all you can do is bag him.:mad:
 
Lets all take a moment to think about why this thread was created. Helping people who have being affected, however that mght be.

Readers can make up their own mind as to who is doing a good job.

Any further derogatory posts will be removed
 
Well done Nioka for giving your time and money to the Caravans
I am sure they will be appreciated by those in need

People should not criticize you for helping in your own way

Well Done !!!


James
 
What do people think about a levy to fund recovery ?

If there's one for this, I suspect it may be long lasting as natural disasters of varying magnitude are not infrequent occurrences.

I'm personally against it as governments should be able to manage something like this within their budget. Did we end up with levies to fund brisbane's recovery after the 74 flood or the reconstruction of Darwin after Tracy ?

A levy too might send the wrong message in relation to inappropriate development.

The gun and Ansett levies of the Howard government should have also been funded from within the budget. Regarding the Ansett levy, guess who has a 14.9% stake in Virgin Blue;

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...c-of-virgin-blue/story-e6frg95x-1225992226191
 
TV footage has confirmed that a lot of houses will need to be completely stripped internally and re-wired.

As per my earlier post re the Newcastle floods, this will take an incredibly long time, due largely to shortage of tradesmen.

It is often easier and quicker to build a new house than attempt to refit, as many home renovators and builders will tell you.:(


there will be an accomodation crisis at the low end, I dont know Brisbane, but cheap digs are often in low, swampy areas.

Insofar as the Insurance situation goes, I would have considerable misgivings.
To the best of my knowledge if you are inundated by a lake, river, sea, etc, that will certainly be excluded unless you have ensured that it is included (by paying more)

I thought almost every homeowner would be aware of this.

The Insurance companies certainly do, they are not charity. In most cases, if you want specific flood insurance, is because you face a risk of flood, and it costs a LOT.

What damm fool company would not adequtaly provison against a near certainty of flood ? ( by charging accordingly)

Where the problem issues arose in Newcastle was where creeks and storm water channels broke there chanels, causing inundation..I understand they were favorably settled, because the Hunter River never broke its banks. It was storm water, exacerbated by a King tide ( but deemed storm, not flood)


Showing the incredible stupidity of town planners, property developers and builders, my own house is built on a filled-in watercouse, with insufficient provision for water runoff.

I sustained some damage to my property and called the Insurance co, the assesor came out and ummed and ahhed for a while, started giving me a tale of woe about months of delay, lack of builders etc.

I said "how about $4k and I fix it myself"

To my astonishment, he immediately agreed and I had my cheque within 2 weeks.

I have owned my PPOR since a young age, and only uncovered the facts regarding its construction after wising up.

When considering property, drainage is at the absolute top of my considerations.
 
I stumbled across a website called HelpYourMates which is assisting people get the help they need

http://helpyourmates.com/all

People can either post if they have something to offer or if they need something. There are heaps of people on there offering accommodation to anyone who needs it as well as temporary foster care for dogs.
 
pedalofogus said:
I have to agree with Julia, money is the way to go. I know of a few Caravan dealers in SE Qld that could desperately use the cash.
By the way, what is the legal implications of the car that you guys are sending? What happens if it explodes and kills someone 2 days after it is handed over? Have the potential liability issues been considered? I hope a roadworthy certificate will be obtained before registering that NSW vehicle in QLD.
Click to expand...

I know a Qld caravan dealer that offered me a discounted van for $20,000 that he had advertised a month ago for $18,000. They are down here buying vans at discounted prices and selling them up there at inflated prices. They sure are desperate for cash, desperate to make as much of it as they possibly can out of other peoples misfortune. We are giving ours to people that couldn't afford to buy one anyway.

The owner of the car has offered to get a pink slip but that slip will not be recognised in Queensland and the vehicle will have to be rexamined before it can be re registered in Qld. The legal implications are easy. To give bona fide ownership to the people given these "gifts" they will pay the nominal $1.
 
nioka said:
Money donated is often only partly distributed. Take the bushfire appeal in Vic. Over a year since it happened and still not all distributed. I thought all ASFers knew that you didn't get value giving bureaucrats money to spend
Click to expand...
You don't have to give it to bureaucrats. I've previously posted that if you donate at Woolworths your donation will be administered by the Salvos and in addition it will be matched dollar for dollar by Woolworths. In most of the evacuation centres it was the Salvos who provided thousands of meals and other care for the evacuees.
They are competent and experienced in dealing with these situations, as they've again demonstrated. I'd much rather see funds going to them than a few isolated individuals getting a caravan.

The reason why the people in charge of the recovery say cash is that it can be transferred electronically.
Click to expand...
You are ignoring what the people running the recovery have said so often in terms of cash being available to spend in the local area, thus keeping local businesses afloat.

They wouldnt know how to send a car. We have volunteers that will deliver it. Same goes for vans. With money the "recovery team" would spend the same money buying one van that we are using to buy two or three that will do the job.
Click to expand...
Pedalofogus has made some valid points regarding this.


P.S. Cant wait for ASFers, I have prepaid my $5000 of the deal to buy a van today at $5,500 which is going there on Tuesday or Wednesday next week. It was too good an offer to miss. It will be accompanied by another I bought yesterday. We also have had a couple of old vans donated. We are getting great value for our dollar.:banghead::banghead:
Click to expand...
Why the bang head emoticons? Why should you imply that you occupy the higher moral ground for sending caravans or cars, against the specifically requested cash from the people on the ground who know best what is needed, in contrast to those of us who have heeded advice and donated money.


drsmith said:
What do people think about a levy to fund recovery ?

If there's one for this, I suspect it may be long lasting as natural disasters of varying magnitude are not infrequent occurrences.

I'm personally against it as governments should be able to manage something like this within their budget. Did we end up with levies to fund brisbane's recovery after the 74 flood or the reconstruction of Darwin after Tracy ?

A levy too might send the wrong message in relation to inappropriate development.

The gun and Ansett levies of the Howard government should have also been funded from within the budget. Regarding the Ansett levy, guess who has a 14.9% stake in Virgin Blue;

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...c-of-virgin-blue/story-e6frg95x-1225992226191
Click to expand...
Agree on all counts. I can just hear Ms Gillard if they ever did manage to get back to a surplus trumpeting that they 'managed the flood rebuilding and still managed to return the budget to surplus.' She would conveniently fail to mention that taxpayers had been slugged with a flood levy.

She should abandon any idea of a surplus in this term (which was unlikely to be achieved anyway) and use an increased deficit if necessary to fund the recovery.



JimBob said:
People can either post if they have something to offer or if they need something. There are heaps of people on there offering accommodation to anyone who needs it as well as temporary foster care for dogs.
Click to expand...
That's so nice. I've been thinking so much about the abandoned dogs.
 
There was an article in The Australian on Wednesday regarding the merits of building levee banks to protect low lying Brisbane suburbs.

While it was conceded that levees on the river itself would be both impractical and cost prohibitive it seems there would be much to be gained by building levees on Brisbane's creeks and streams, particularly on Oxley Creek. As the accompanying link shows flooding in the Rocklea, Graceville and Tennyson areas is not caused by the river overflowing its banks, but by the flooding creek and exacerbated by tidal back-up.

Rocklea is a large industrial complex and includes the Brisbane Markets and Graceville was the worst flood affected Brisbane suburb. I lived in Graceville in 1974 and we all knew the creek was the culprit.

http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.539479,152.992558&z=15&t=h&nmd=20110113
 
Did you also know that the Dutch offerd to help Gillard
This was noted on Radio 4BC last week
Her reply was thanks but no thanks



Thanks but no thanks : Australia rejects Dutch flood offer

They might be the world's foremost authorities on keeping land dry, but the Australian government says it doesn't want them - yet.

The Dutch government has offered technical expertise to Australia to help out in the devastating Queensland floods, but Prime Minister Julia Gillard has turned it down.

About 26 per cent of the Netherlands is below sea level and its flood mitigation measures, both from rivers and the sea, are widely considered the most advanced in the world.

Advertisement: Story continues below Leading Dutch news website nu.nl reported that the country's Prime Minister, Mark Rutte, had made the offer to Ms Gillard, but was told it was not required at present.

However, Dutch foreign affairs minister Uri Rosenthal would continue to liaise with his Australian counterpart, Kevin Rudd, over possible assistance in the future, the website reported.

Mr Rudd said there was "no sort of false pride" in not taking help from outside the country.

"It's just rational," he told Sky News last night.

"If we experience a major capability gap - I know what the army guys are like, I know what the SES guys are like, they'll be the first one to put up their hand saying, we don't have this kit - and we need it from them.

Link from the source
http://www.watoday.com.au/environme...rejects-dutch-flood-offer-20110112-19nyq.html
 
Calliope said:
...Rocklea is a large industrial complex and includes the Brisbane Markets and Graceville was the worst flood affected Brisbane suburb. I lived in Graceville in 1974 and we all knew the creek was the culprit.

http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.539479,152.992558&z=15&t=h&nmd=20110113
Click to expand...

Our friends had their business in Rocklea and apparently not much can be salvaged. I wonder how many others have lost their jobs.

Our friends had about 20 staff. If these all remain on the dole for a year, that could potentially cost the government several hundred thousand for each year they are on the dole. That's just one business.

If that money were put into helping these business back on their feet, wouldn't that be more economical in the long run and keep the qld economy stronger?

Our friends are not looking for handouts. This is only my thinking when mentally adding up the increased dole money the government may have to hand out each year with so many lost jobs in Qld as opposed to getting these businesses back up and running.

Thoughts anyone?...:)

Not sure if this map has been posted before. It has a "before" and "after" slider on it so you can drag it over the picture to see what the landscape was before and after the flood. It is quite amazing:

Qld Floods - before and after
 
When Appeals money is handed out the provident needn't apply.
QUEENSLAND flood victims are likely to face strict asset and income tests to be eligible for major payments from the Premier's Disaster Relief Appeal.

Former Treasurer David Hamill, chair of the relief appeal distribution committee, yesterday said the money needed to be directed towards those most in need.

Victims without insurance or whose insurance did not cover floods were likely to be favoured.
Click to expand...
(My Bolds)

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ts-to-most-needy/story-e6freon6-1225992650663
 
In the weekend AFR and article by John McAneney and Kevin Roche titled...

"Man, not nature to blame"

This can be googled with above title, by writers.

It begins by saying...
The recent flooding in QLD. NSW and Victoria is yet another gastly reminder of the destructive power of nature. The cost of natural distasters around the world are increasing rapidly, fuelled by societal changes such as increases in population, wealth and inflation not climate change.

Good read. these guys are associated with " Risk Frontiers." (an independent research group)

Lets hope the official reaction to these floods is in " reducing risks" and not playing the blame game.
Cheers
 
Positive thoughts and wishes to those in NSW and Victoria who may have some hard times ahead.



PS Julia, Calliope - I made no reference to insurance policies in my last post and neither did the post I was referring to. Anyway, let's forget that. Thank you for your posts.
 
Top