Queensland Floods

[nioka]

My wife and I have been talking about how much to give and where.

Woolworths are going to match, dollar for dollar, any donation made through its checkout and give a tax deductible receipt. Woolworths say that there will be no limit - they will match their customer's giving.

My wife and I are going to give through that channel. They will be channeling their funds to the Salvation Army.

Brad

I'll be heading for the worst of the areas next week, probably Grantham I'll look for someone in trouble and hand out cash or take them shopping. My daughter has bought a new fridge and a new washing machine and has given it to the grand kids and told them to go there and find someone that desperately needs one. I believe in direct action rather than give to a fund that may still be holding the funds in a few months time. I have a lot of time for the Salvos and if direct action is not possible they would be my first choice.

Better a few get help that don't need or deserve it than have someone that is in desperate need miss out.

 

[Smurf1976]

But as you have pointed, where is all the necessary labour going to come from.
Electricians have suggested people will be waiting weeks, even months for someone to come and certify their place is OK for the power to be turned on. I don't know how any government can improve on this. Would they even bring in the necessary skilled people from other countries on a temporary basis?

Hmm, wonder if there are any electricians, plumbers or other necessary tradespeople in our detention centres?

A national critical skills scheme is what I think is needed.

If it could be arranged that workers were still paid as usual and there were no other consequences for their normal employment, then I think we could get a huge number of trades people from the other states up there pretty quickly.

But retaining existing employment arrangements really is the key to make something like that work. Nobody's wants to take unpaid leave and then come back home to find they've been sacked. And of course they still need an income to pay the bills while they're up in Qld.

I'm thinking of a scheme where employers who "loan" their staff to assist in Qld are compensated by government for doing so. I'm not generally keen on governments handing out money, but in this case it's a solution.

Under this system, those going to Qld would not make a profit from doing so despite the long hours they would likely be working. They'd just get paid (by their normal employer using government $) for the normal hours they would have worked in their normal jobs, with a guarantee of no impact on their normal employment arrangements once they return home.

I'm not thinking that they stay up there for months and build entire houses. I'm talking about getting the transport system (roads, rail and I hear there's some ferry terminals that are completely wrecked - fixing those would seem fairly urgent so people can get around etc). And things like getting the power, water, gas etc working for those buildings otherwise still habitable. That would at least get some of the worst ongoing day to day aspects of the disaster overcome and with help from all states should be able to be done pretty quickly I would think.

At least with a working transport system, power, gas, water etc there will be a sound basis to fix the damaged buildings etc. But everything's so much harder if you don't have power, drinkable water and so on first.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Having been through one huge flood and many cyclones.

Cash is what's needed mates.

Cash.

Give if you can to any of the caring organisations.

Folk can re-organise and sweat themselves out of a corner, but cash is beaut when you are down.

gg

 

[Julia]

Been out helping with the clean up over the last few days. Lots of stuff going to waste and the dump pile. I'm staggered at the amount actually. Allot of goods could be cleaned up and reused. Managed to save some nice audio equipment (With the owners permission of course). I'll clean it up test it and return the stuff. (I already have too much audio gear) It'll be a nice little joy to hear some of this gear play music again

Good on you for helping, MD. I guess many of the affected people are so distraught that the idea of trying to clean up audio equipment etc just seems like a step too far.
Their insurance will presumably cover replacement with a new item (If they have flood insurance of course.)

I was out today to help with the clean up and it was good to see so many people out helping out - so many that they had to turn some people away as they couldnt handle so many people. The Brisbane City Council deserves praise for its work -they have organised buses to get volunteers out to the problem areas. I was in Rosalie and they had about 15 people per house making stripping the houses out and doing whatever cleaning was possible much easier. Then they had bulldozers and rubbish trucks on the street to take the junk straight away as well as fire trucks and street cleaning trucks to try and clean the road up. This scene is being repeated street after street, right across Brisbane. They said they will be prepared for more volunteers tomorrow, there are still some areas that people cant get into due to flood water.

Goodonya, Jimbob. Yes, I was listening to Can Do Campbell on the radio this evening and totally understand how he came by such a nickname. Perhaps it's his army background. Just fantastic organisation by the BCC and wonderful support from all the volunteers.

I think we're all disgusted by the few cases of looting, but truly, when these are compared with the thousands of people prepared to offer help to those they've never met, it's an immense tribute to the community spirit of the Australian people.

It reminds me of the often quoted fact that during World War II the suicide rate in Britain was about halved, as people pulled together and supported one another.
Sometimes, a disaster can be about people actually feeling they have a worthwhile role in life rather than being insignificant.

I wonder what will become of all the small businesses who have just lost everything

The government is offering $25,000 to each small business. That should help a bit.

I'll be heading for the worst of the areas next week, probably Grantham I'll look for someone in trouble and hand out cash or take them shopping. My daughter has bought a new fridge and a new washing machine and has given it to the grand kids and told them to go there and find someone that desperately needs one. I believe in direct action rather than give to a fund that may still be holding the funds in a few months time.

Whilst that sounds great and is generous of you, Nioka, I wonder where the recipient will put a new fridge and washing machine when their house is a long way from being habitable? Would it be better perhaps to wait until some of the rehabilitation of housing has taken place, by which time it's pretty likely much of the emotion will have drained away and all the passionate response we're seeing at present has dwindled to nothing.

In many ways, for the people affected, it will be a bit like the death of someone they have loved. i.e. many visits and letters of sympathy at the time, lots of people at the funeral, but it's a few weeks later when it has all died off that often the affected person will feel most devastated and in need of some comfort.

Don't know. I might be wrong.

I have a lot of time for the Salvos and if direct action is not possible they would be my first choice.

Mine too.

A national critical skills scheme is what I think is needed.

If it could be arranged that workers were still paid as usual and there were no other consequences for their normal employment, then I think we could get a huge number of trades people from the other states up there pretty quickly.

But retaining existing employment arrangements really is the key to make something like that work. Nobody's wants to take unpaid leave and then come back home to find they've been sacked. And of course they still need an income to pay the bills while they're up in Qld.

I'm thinking of a scheme where employers who "loan" their staff to assist in Qld are compensated by government for doing so. I'm not generally keen on governments handing out money, but in this case it's a solution.

Under this system, those going to Qld would not make a profit from doing so despite the long hours they would likely be working. They'd just get paid (by their normal employer using government $) for the normal hours they would have worked in their normal jobs, with a guarantee of no impact on their normal employment arrangements once they return home.

I'm not thinking that they stay up there for months and build entire houses. I'm talking about getting the transport system (roads, rail and I hear there's some ferry terminals that are completely wrecked - fixing those would seem fairly urgent so people can get around etc). And things like getting the power, water, gas etc working for those buildings otherwise still habitable. That would at least get some of the worst ongoing day to day aspects of the disaster overcome and with help from all states should be able to be done pretty quickly I would think.

At least with a working transport system, power, gas, water etc there will be a sound basis to fix the damaged buildings etc. But everything's so much harder if you don't have power, drinkable water and so on first.

Sounds good but what about the employer who is 'donating' the workers: they will presumably have employed only as many workers as they need to adequately run their business, so if those people are seconded north, how will they get on in running their ordinary, everyday business?

 

[pedalofogus]

I was at rocklea cleaning out my wife's grandmothers house. Although there were no council organised crews there, a team of about 50 or 60 people from the hillsong churchshowed up. They were excellent! The young men and women that showed up were courteous, caring, and their assistance was invaluable during the day. A lot is said about hillsong church, and I still have my reservations about the true intentions of the church, but on this particular occasion they were unable to be faulted. And they bought domino pizza for lunch! Haha

 

[Smurf1976]

Sounds good but what about the employer who is 'donating' the workers: they will presumably have employed only as many workers as they need to adequately run their business, so if those people are seconded north, how will they get on in running their ordinary, everyday business?

My thought is that it would be voluntary and there must surely be someone out there for whom business is a bit quiet at the moment. That plus state governments, councils, utilities etc could presumably defer non-urgent works under such a scheme.

A bit like how the Army Reserve works. A letter is sent out which is pretty blunt - this person will be made available.

Jury Duty is another one that works essentially the same way - in most cases there's no real way for an employer to refuse to make an employee availble. It's just something they have to deal with.

So I'm thinking that if there's some $ being handed out then it's likely that quite a few will put their hands up to take it. Not compulsory for anyone, but I'm thinking that some would take up the offer, and some is better than nothing.

Floods in Qld, NSW, Vic and Tas. Fires in WA. And now we've had 150 km/h winds in parts of Tas too. The sooner this La Nina is finished, the better...

Meanwhile, there's always someone trying to take advantage of situations like this for their own gain. Floods in Qld dominating the news and lesser floods closer to home, so someone decides it's a good opportunity for a scam. http://www.examiner.com.au/news/loc...nings-of-flood-and-parking-scams/2048330.aspx

 

[Wysiwyg]

Australia's foreign aid budget is up from $3.8 billion to $4.3 billion next year.

Foreign Minister Stephen Smith says the change to a new international standard for calculating national income will deliver $2-3 billion more to aid in coming years, and that is on track to meet government aid funding goals.

At present the Federal Government has offered $10mil. towards repairing damage from the floods. Yet in comparison to what is given to other countries, this amount is small. Does this mean the flooded areas are considered able to fix things up themselves?

Certainly we should not begrudge other countries of financial assistance but the situation in Australia is comparatively much less significant than smoothing over relationships with the Indos. for example.

In 2010-2011, Australian aid to Indonesia will be worth an estimated A$458.7 million, making Indonesia the largest recipient of Australian aid.

And the Boxing Day tsunami ...

There are practical problems with the distribution of such large amounts of funds to a small number of people in a short period of time. For example, only around 20% of the Australian Government's $1 billion Boxing Day Tsunami package went directly to localities affected by the disaster.[2] Common issues include:

* loss of donations through corruption;
* misspending on areas that are not of prime concern or sensitive to the needs of affected communities at the time; and,
* late arrival of assistance

 

[Calliope]

WHAT a clown Prince Charles is. This heir to the throne thinks our flood was caused by a cyclone, and he thinks we are overrun by "thousands of snakes...crocodiles,you name it". What a phony.

 

[Solly]

Having been through one huge flood and many cyclones.

Cash is what's needed mates.

Cash.

Give if you can to any of the caring organisations.

Folk can re-organise and sweat themselves out of a corner, but cash is beaut when you are down.

gg

GG,

Yes Cash Cash Cash, is what is really needed.

I know everybody is probably overloaded with the flooding.

If you wish here's a link to a few grainy wilds, sans people,
that shows what it's really like on the ground this afternoon after the cleanup attempts.
Please scroll through to see some of the stills. They are also up on Twitter.

http://www.mobypicture.com/user/sollygc/view/8499370

I'm still wondering how this happened again, I'm looking forward to the drill down to look for the root causes. I have a feeling Can Do, Campbell Newman isn't going to put up with any double talk or ducking and weaving. I believe he's not too happy with this happening under his watch.

 

[Smurf1976]

Not wanting to detract from the misery in Qld in any way, but:

13,000 homes flooded in Victoria. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/16/3114016.htm

Transport chaos due to floods in Tasmania. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/16/3113867.htm

And it's still not looking good in NSW. http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...lla-and-toomelah/story-e6frfku9-1225988919065

 

[Tink]

Yep Smurf, its been crazy on the east coast, Vic has gone from fires to floods. I feel for all affected.

I have been whinging with this 95% humidity which is so out of character for Melbourne -- I hate it!

Nothing compared to what these people are going through.

 

[drsmith]

Questions about Wivenhoe's release strategy prior to the flood;

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ned-if-they-dont/story-e6frg6zo-1225988018615

With improvements in weather forecasting since construction, a likely future outcome is a more flexible strategy regarding the balance between storage and flood mitigation.

 

[Julia]

I suppose if the dam management had let a lot of water out and it hadn't subsequently rained, then they'd be in the gun for doing the wrong thing.

Given the long years of drought with the pitiful pictures of the almost dry dam, the temptation to hold onto the water must be strong.

 

[Calliope]

Questions about Wivenhoe's release strategy prior to the flood;

The usual crop of hindsight armchair strategists. One aspect which is often ignored is that nearly half of the water during the flood peak in Brisbane did not come from the Wivenhoe catchment. It came via the Bremer and Lockyer catchments, over which there is no control.

It is really a guessing game to balance a controlled flow against a a rampant uncontrolled surge of water. I would be very loath to criticise those making the decisions.

 

[drsmith]

I suppose if the dam management had let a lot of water out and it hadn't subsequently rained, then they'd be in the gun for doing the wrong thing.

Given the long years of drought with the pitiful pictures of the almost dry dam, the temptation to hold onto the water must be strong.

Strongest of all would be the temptation to follow the book. It's hard to be crucified for doing that, but easy if you don't, almost regardless of the outcome.

 

[RandR]

A national critical skills scheme is what I think is needed.

If it could be arranged that workers were still paid as usual and there were no other consequences for their normal employment, then I think we could get a huge number of trades people from the other states up there pretty quickly.

Under this system, those going to Qld would not make a profit from doing so despite the long hours they would likely be working. They'd just get paid (by their normal employer using government $) for the normal hours they would have worked in their normal jobs, with a guarantee of no impact on their normal employment arrangements once they return home.

You sound like your unfamiliar with the building and construction industry in general, because in all reality what your talking about is pie in the sky. No company that works in construction has any employees that are not engaged in work and already busy, otherwise such a company would be broke. Turnover of employees is brutal in construction, and its very very rare i have met any tradesman that has been with a contractor for more then a handful of years. People are generally employed on a job to job and contract basis.

Im a tradesman and i live in brisbane, this weekend and the couple of days beforehand i have used my work skills to help people whose homes have been destroyed. But honestly, theres only so much free work and time i can donate. In terms of plumbing, nobody from interstate is licensed to work in queensland, unless they hold a qld plumbers license. A license that takes 6 years to actually attain. There is in reality no army of skilled workers available to throw at reconstruction efforts.

People will just have to be patient, rebuilding is not going to be a task that can be sorted out in a matter of weeks or months, but rather years. If anything else were to come up within that timeframe that required more from what is already a thinly stretched workforce (ie- another disaster) the situation could become worse.

In any case, I think everyone at the moment should just be hoping/praying that the tropical cyclone forming in the coral sea doesnt take a turn for the east coast in a week.

 

[Smurf1976]

You sound like your unfamiliar with the building and construction industry in general, because in all reality what your talking about is pie in the sky. No company that works in construction has any employees that are not engaged in work and already busy, otherwise such a company would be broke. Turnover of employees is brutal in construction, and its very very rare i have met any tradesman that has been with a contractor for more then a handful of years. People are generally employed on a job to job and contract basis.

Im a tradesman and i live in brisbane, this weekend and the couple of days beforehand i have used my work skills to help people whose homes have been destroyed. But honestly, theres only so much free work and time i can donate. In terms of plumbing, nobody from interstate is licensed to work in queensland, unless they hold a qld plumbers license. A license that takes 6 years to actually attain. There is in reality no army of skilled workers available to throw at reconstruction efforts.

Private contractors maybe, but in utilities, local government etc it's exactly the opposite. It's rare for anyone to leave unless they have some compelling reason to do so. They don't usually go and get a similar job with another employer that's for sure. They leave either to change career, retire, or relocate. And loyalty to the organisation and the public tends to be pretty high too (with the exception of a few union types here and there...).

I've no doubt that I could find 250 people from Tasmania alone between Aurora, Hydro, Transend, DIER, the water authorities and various councils. That's electricians, plumbers, various other trades and general construction workers experienced with public infrastructure in particular.

For councils and utilities, it's really just a matter of delaying non-urgent works to free up resources. It's how they manage things on a day to day basis anyway. First comes the urgent repairs etc. Then comes the priority projects. Then comes the "must be done within the next 12 months" type jobs to fill up the day's work. I have quite a few years experience running an electrical works crew doing just that.

As I said, I'm not talking about rebuilding houses that are wrecked. But I'm sure that local government, state government and various utilities could spare enough people across the country to at least get the public infrastructure, things like the ferry terminals and so on, fixed pretty quickly. And of course getting the power back on to buildings that haven't been destroyed and things like that too.

It just seems crazy to me that we're doing maintenance, routine equipment upgrades etc here in Tassie and the council is paving some footpaths and so on whilst there's outright chaos in Brisbane. The world wouldn't end if we left those sorts of things for a while and sent the workers to help out in Queensland for a few weeks.

 

[Calliope]

It just seems crazy to me that we're doing maintenance, routine electrical equipment upgrades and so on here in Tassie and the council is paving some footpaths and so on whilst there's outright chaos in Brisbane. The world wouldn't end if we left those sorts of things for a while and sent the workers to help out in Queensland for a few weeks.

And now it's Victoria. Much closer to home.

 

[Julia]

Woolworths deserve congratulations for having their stores here almost fully stocked today. Their staff apparently worked long into the night all weekend. Here in this SE Qld regional centre, I was told the fresh stock was brought up from South Australia.

Just a great effort so good on WOW.

 

[GumbyLearner]

And now it's Victoria. Much closer to home.

I have spent many years living in Queensland and have some great mates from there. Fortunately, I don't reside there now.

While living in Brisbane I shared student houses in some of the places that were inundated with blokes from Rocky, Dalby, Chinchilla and a variety of other remote places.

All I can say is I hope everyone can cough up some cash to help out as gg would put it.

That's what is necessary now.

I don't see why ASF doesn't start it's own cash appeal for flood victims. Maybe someone can talk to Joe about it.

I hope my ol buddies/their families from student days are all ok.