Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Prop Shops in Australia

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OmegaTrader said:
Hi JMG86

Which platform/ broker would you recommend to do this.

Any resources you could recommend also?


Thanks for the advice mate.

Omega
Click to expand...

That looks like CQG, a pricey 7-800 bucks a month. TT might be able to do this on their new platform, which is cheaper. CQG is the Rolls Royce for spreading now though.:2twocents
 
Hi Canoz

Thanks for the info.

This seems uneconomical.:confused:

It has to be at least cost effective. I know I will lose money during learning but that is why I want to start micro.

Say I make 20% a year on my total capital after spread/commissions.

Which is very very very very very very unlikely straight away and it could take me 6 months- up to two years to even be profitable.

Given monthly costs:

At $800 per month I need (800*12)/.2 = $48,000

At $400 per month I need (400*12)/.2 = $24,000

So I need between $24,000 and $48,000 capital.

Not including, money I will lose while learning and extra software/resources.

If I demo then it is a waste of time after I get the basic concepts as per jmg86's comments.

So this is really impracticable unless,



I can get free/ relatively cheap software + data etc
or

Do some of the analysis myself with more basic data+software,
or

Use similar strategies that are simpler or more geared to a micro account


Keeping in mind that if the skills are not relevant to the current prop market mentioned.

Then...

I am only doing it for fun/ self-learning and it would not help me in a direct way to have a better chance in being successful at a prop.

Just some of my thoughts.

Cheers

Omega
 
OmegaTrader said:
Hi Canoz

Thanks for the info.

This seems uneconomical.:confused:

It has to be at least cost effective. I know I will lose money during learning but that is why I want to start micro.

Say I make 20% a year on my total capital after spread/commissions.

Which is very very very very very very unlikely straight away and it could take me 6 months- up to two years to even be profitable.

Given monthly costs:

At $800 per month I need (800*12)/.2 = $48,000

At $400 per month I need (400*12)/.2 = $24,000

So I need between $24,000 and $48,000 capital.

Not including, money I will lose while learning and extra software/resources.

If I demo then it is a waste of time after I get the basic concepts as per jmg86's comments.

So this is really impracticable unless,



I can get free/ relatively cheap software + data etc
or

Do some of the analysis myself with more basic data+software,
or

Use similar strategies that are simpler or more geared to a micro account


Keeping in mind that if the skills are not relevant to the current prop market mentioned.

Then...

I am only doing it for fun/ self-learning and it would not help me in a direct way to have a better chance in being successful at a prop.

Just some of my thoughts.

Cheers

Omega
Click to expand...


Omega

I think in the long run the most significant obstacle that a trader faces (of which there are many) are commissions.

This is only magnified when you start trading spreads. That's actually a reason prop shops like them as they get a cut of the turnover.

To trade the interest rate futures in Australia can also be tricky as there are a limited amount of brokers that offer them.

What might be a good option is something like AMP futures, where you can get XTrader for free and instead of a monthly fee in the range of $400-600, you can pay an additional 50c per contract or something like that.

Now this isn't ideal obviously, but in terms of getting a feel for trading these type of products this might be a good option to start with. Plus with a funded account you get an unlimited demo which will have the products that you want.

That's what I would try.
 
RowanC said:
Omega

I think in the long run the most significant obstacle that a trader faces (of which there are many) are commissions.

This is only magnified when you start trading spreads. That's actually a reason prop shops like them as they get a cut of the turnover.

To trade the interest rate futures in Australia can also be tricky as there are a limited amount of brokers that offer them.

What might be a good option is something like AMP futures, where you can get XTrader for free and instead of a monthly fee in the range of $400-600, you can pay an additional 50c per contract or something like that.

Now this isn't ideal obviously, but in terms of getting a feel for trading these type of products this might be a good option to start with. Plus with a funded account you get an unlimited demo which will have the products that you want.

That's what I would try.
Click to expand...


Thanks TrentCroad

That sounds much more reasonable.

enough talking from me

just do it

and do it

and do it.

:)

Cheers
 
OmegaTrader said:
Hi JMG86

Which platform/ broker would you recommend to do this.

Any resources you could recommend also?
Click to expand...

A book by Stephen Aikin called Trading STIR Futures: An Introduction to Short-Term Interest Rate Futures is pretty much all you need to learn the ins and outs of how these markets trade.

I terms of platforms I would first exhaust all the free demos from TT and CQG. In doing so you will get at least 6 weeks worth of free platform to trial on. Once you have an account you could do the above stuff using CQG Q-trader which i think is $50 odd a month. All of the above info and order books is available through whats called a spread matrix so really you can get away with one screen easily if you wanted. Set up accounts with the bucket shops for charts of currencies etc and you should have enough to get a good head start for prop.

Your not going to get rich doing this, punting spreads for $25 a tick but you will will learn with skin in the game and thus expedite your learning unlike sim trading for months on end in an equity market only to be unable to pull the trigger when going live because of your small account.
 
jmg86 said:
A book by Stephen Aikin called Trading STIR Futures: An Introduction to Short-Term Interest Rate Futures is pretty much all you need to learn the ins and outs of how these markets trade.

I terms of platforms I would first exhaust all the free demos from TT and CQG. In doing so you will get at least 6 weeks worth of free platform to trial on. Once you have an account you could do the above stuff using CQG Q-trader which i think is $50 odd a month. All of the above info and order books is available through whats called a spread matrix so really you can get away with one screen easily if you wanted. Set up accounts with the bucket shops for charts of currencies etc and you should have enough to get a good head start for prop.

Your not going to get rich doing this, punting spreads for $25 a tick but you will will learn with skin in the game and thus expedite your learning unlike sim trading for months on end in an equity market only to be unable to pull the trigger when going live because of your small account.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for the tips jmg86.

That is the idea. To get feel on micro without losing my life savings to subscriptions, fees and loses :) lol

Then try for prop with some experience.

Rather than try to wing it.

Cheers

Omega
 
There is a firm in the UK that will provide prop style clearing fees and risk management. I'll have more info soon but it looks quite promising. You can trade your own capital and they take no split. They also fund traders that want more capital to size up. Obviously a split involved there.

Www.mindfultraders.net

I've got a call tomorrow afternoon with them.
 
CanOz said:
There is a firm in the UK that will provide prop style clearing fees and risk management. I'll have more info soon but it looks quite promising. You can trade your own capital and they take no split. They also fund traders that want more capital to size up. Obviously a split involved there.

Www.mindfultraders.net

I've got a call tomorrow afternoon with them.
Click to expand...

I look for red flags first thing in this industry is guilty until proven innocent - you know my views so take it with a grain of salt.

"Mindful Traders LTD is an Introducing Broker which has a unique arrangement which allows for Independent Traders to gain the benefits of Risk Managed Accounts with lower commissions just like Prop Traders."

OK so they are a Intro Bro with the brokers acting as risk managers. Sounds to me like a full time broker.



Trading Platforms (Pricing Per Month)
EasyScreen Neon Trader - £200
CQG Integrated Client, Q Trader and Trader – Various pricing please ask for details
TT XTrader Standard - Starting at £460 with 1 Exchange, 2 Exchanges at £490
TT X Trader Pro - £1200

CME Products
Emini S&P – Starting $1.45 per lot
Emini Nasdaq - Starting $1.45 per lot
Mini Dow – Starting $1.45 per lot
Crude Oil (CL) – Starting $1.85 per lot


Commissions and monthly fees much higher than what I get from IB - so you really are just paying for their risk management and coaching.

They use a .net domain, while the .com is available for purchase. Broken links on site, site layout is obviously a typical template by popular web developers. Not very professional for a prop/brokerage firm.

Their address 20-22 Wenlock Road London N1 7GU .

Google this and you get a virtual office site. "Based in the heart of Central London, Virtual Office MadeSimple is run by a team of dedicated people committed to making sure we exceed our client’s expectations.
With services including mail forwarding, telephone answering, meeting rooms and fax forwarding, a business anywhere in the world can get the full benefit of a central London address." https://www.londonpresence.com/about-us/

You also get 2 "businesses" previously registered at the same building that are in trouble. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ulti-million-pound-companies-into-liquidation

Doesn't sound like a ideal address for a reputable prop/brokerage firm.

Now on to the person behind it, Kam Dhadwar. He runs http://www.thetradingframework.com/ . A trading education site (which also uses the same web template as the brokerage site.)

Registered address is Kemp House, 152 - 160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX. Google this, surprise surprise another virtual office. https://www.yourvirtualofficelondon.co.uk/

Kam also runs http://www.findyoself.com/ - a very typical internet marketing sales site. Enter your email address to change your life.

Everything looks and leads back to a trading "salesman" - not necessarily bad if his stuff is good. That I have no info on and cant comment on, I just think it's a bit misleading to associate the prop firm term to their business.
 
How did you get those rates from IB? I thought the Eurex rates were pretty good.
 
Thought id give this a little bump. I traded with Propex for 2 years and left due to personal matters. However, they're looking more promising (son's health) and i've been trading myself for over 20 months and left my employment in February to persue it again full time.

Propex taught me a lot and very grateful. I've heard from a friend that the 10:10 is now just full of algos and spoofing?
 
aussiefx said:
Thought id give this a little bump. I traded with Propex for 2 years and left due to personal matters. However, they're looking more promising (son's health) and i've been trading myself for over 20 months and left my employment in February to persue it again full time.

Propex taught me a lot and very grateful. I've heard from a friend that the 10:10 is now just full of algos and spoofing?
Click to expand...

Correct, it is 3-4 times thicker on the bids and offers and a lot harder to trade.
 
I agree.

I notice you take your trades out before the 1R loss.
There is only 1 1.07 R loss. How do you ratchet your stops
I also note some very wide stops how do you determine you stop level.
It varies on each
 
I have some concerns about that performance and how you express the results. Your opening capital was 100K, yet the CBA trade (#25) has a value over 220K. How much leverage did you actually use? Your benchmark index didn't use any leverage so a direct comparison is misleading.

Not withstanding my concerns with the use of leverage, wide iSL and many small R losses, I agree that keeping any losses small is the absolute key to profitable trading.
 
peter2 said:
I have some concerns about that performance and how you express the results. Your opening capital was 100K, yet the CBA trade (#25) has a value over 220K. How much leverage did you actually use? Your benchmark index didn't use any leverage so a direct comparison is misleading.

Not withstanding my concerns with the use of leverage, wide iSL and many small R losses, I agree that keeping any losses small is the absolute key to profitable trading.
Click to expand...

I am not using any leverage. How did you recon that? Please do look at the results again and feel free to make objective comment. I would to find someone taking about weakness of trading results. Thnx
 
tech/a said:
I agree.

I notice you take your trades out before the 1R loss.
There is only 1 1.07 R loss. How do you ratchet your stops
I also note some very wide stops how do you determine you stop level.
It varies on each
Click to expand...

I used chart SL. But those are secondary. My primary SL is 1R loss.
 
Gautam said:
I am not using any leverage. How did you recon that? Please do look at the results again and feel free to make objective comment. I would to find someone taking about weakness of trading results. Thnx
Click to expand...

4 hrs before you posted this Pete corrected his mistake no need for you to come back with a baseball bat

Good job on your trading
 

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