Prenuptial agreements

[Pat]

Trust me you only truly know somebody for real by the things they do when they think you're not watching... Now who has the time and resources to do that?

It has been a very invaluable lesson...

Again it's just interesting conversation...

Insider,
I've never thought of it like that good words.
also, thats why ex's are ex's, and thats how they should stay

 

[Sprinter79]

Simple solution....... don't get married. There are plenty of other ways of showing your commitment to someone without getting married (and all the associated legal 'obligations')

Having seen my parents split, I never EVER want to put anyone through that. The arguments over money etc were the worst.

If you do have to get married (for what ever reason) a prenup is a good way of protecting yourself, at least financially. It can also be written in such a way that 'events' (ie cheating) leading up to the breakup can play a determining role in any division of assets.

I will admit that I have a beautifully cynical view of all this junk, but there is one thing you can be sure of. When the **** hits the fan, the only person you can rely on is yourself.

 

[ghotib]

Simple solution....... don't get married. There are plenty of other ways of showing your commitment to someone without getting married (and all the associated legal 'obligations')

Having seen my parents split, I never EVER want to put anyone through that. The arguments over money etc were the worst.

If you do have to get married (for what ever reason) a prenup is a good way of protecting yourself, at least financially. It can also be written in such a way that 'events' (ie cheating) leading up to the breakup can play a determining role in any division of assets.

I will admit that I have a beautifully cynical view of all this junk, but there is one thing you can be sure of. When the **** hits the fan, the only person you can rely on is yourself.

Errrr... not so simple. The legal obligations of marriage can exist without the piece of paper if you're living together.

IMO talking it through and writing down your intentions before you can believe there might ever be problems is the closest thing to a simple solution. Also the safest, because all sorts of differences can emerge when you start talking about money. You probably saw the bad side of that in your parents' breakup. Better to get any issues out in the open under the rosy glow of lus... love than the raw light of breakup (as you might say)

BTW, I haven't voted in the poll because there's no none-of-the-above option. Out pre-nup wasn't protecting our assets from each other; we were protecting each other from the added horror a ferocious fight if our marriage didn't work out. It doesn't need to be a cynical thing, any more than a business partnership agreement does.

Ghoti

 

[hangseng]

Complete crap. Neither you nor I can forecast a partner's mental state or emotional state in the future.

The best thing I can advise you is if you are marrying for "Love", then you think the world and you relationship will remain warm and fuzzy for ever.

You need to understand a woman's psychology my friend. Then you'll understand what you're getting into and why. Remember a man allows himself to be "caught".

After being married now for 31 years (and together 3 years prior to marriage) and having had many a situation to deal with I believe I "understand a woman's psychology" and know what I am into.

I will say we married far too young, however we stuck it out and have now become firstly best friends who understand each other.

Call this "crap" if you will but the real "crap" in my opinion is those who jump at the slightest hint of a problem and aren't willing to remember the vows given and the reasons for doing so.

Lack of commitment in society is a part of the social problems we have today. Thankfully a ("crap") value our young adult children have now enlisted in their lives.

The world doesn't stay "warm a fuzzy forever" and neither does relationships, that's why you should think with you head and true feelings and not your anatomy. Young people get quite confused between love and commitment and sex and the rush that goes with it.

The point I am making is know who you are getting into a relationship with and then commit to it. Don't be so quick to jump into a relationship and then cry foul through your own lack of foresight or commitment.

Good luck with your nup's though, for me just another plug pulled on societies values and another nail in the coffin of trust in relationships based on greed. Or, "crap" if you consider this as such.

 

[insider]

After being married now for 31 years (and together 3 years prior to marriage) and having had many a situation to deal with I believe I "understand a woman's psychology" and know what I am into.

I will say we married far too young, however we stuck it out and have now become firstly best friends who understand each other.

Call this "crap" if you will but the real "crap" in my opinion is those who jump at the slightest hint of a problem and aren't willing to remember the vows given and the reasons for doing so.

Lack of commitment in society is a part of the social problems we have today. Thankfully a ("crap") value our young adult children have now enlisted in their lives.

The world doesn't stay "warm a fuzzy forever" and neither does relationships, that's why you should think with you head and true feelings and not your anatomy. Young people get quite confused between love and commitment and sex and the rush that goes with it.

The point I am making is know who you are getting into a relationship with and then commit to it. Don't be so quick to jump into a relationship and then cry foul through your own lack of foresight or commitment.

Good luck with your nup's though, for me just another plug pulled on societies values and another nail in the coffin of trust in relationships based on greed. Or, "crap" if you consider this as such.

Interesting Hangseng...


I have an uncle who has been married and divorced now 3 times... yes he makes decent cash however now that every partner he has married has taken 50% of 50% of 50% he is now made to work without considering retirement... As for his children, my cousins, all the previous wives would have taken most of their inheritance... As for their mum, My aunty, well at least she's still got the house however she too has remarried to a guy without personality so if she decided to leave well I guess she gets 50% (I don't know how much he or she contributes) but there's a chance that my cousins will get less...

 

[insider]

BTW, I haven't voted in the poll because there's no none-of-the-above option. Out pre-nup wasn't protecting our assets from each other; we were protecting each other from the added horror a ferocious fight if our marriage didn't work out. It doesn't need to be a cynical thing, any more than a business partnership agreement does.

Ghoti

I like the way you're thinking... Yes cutting out the lawyers will save 50% of the assets value anyway...

But the fact that it may actually save your friendship and keep the family closer in case of a divorce is genius...

 

[Prospector]

OK, how about this for a different slant.

If I am able to afford it financially, when my kids (in late teens and early twenties) decide to marry and purchase a house, I would like to help out a little with some money. Now, I could give it to them as a couple as a gift, but so many divorces very early on concern me and I am thinking I just wouldnt want half of that money to go pffft to the person they had married a couple of years later. So I am thinking I should make it a loan, payable on demand, no interest payable and which would be paid back to me should they divorce and need to split the assets.

Is that being too clinical?

 

[professor_frink]

OK, how about this for a different slant.

If I am able to afford it financially, when my kids (in late teens and early twenties) decide to marry and purchase a house, I would like to help out a little with some money. Now, I could give it to them as a couple as a gift, but so many divorces very early on concern me and I am thinking I just wouldnt want half of that money to go pffft to the person they had married a couple of years later. So I am thinking I should make it a loan, payable on demand, no interest payable and which would be paid back to me should they divorce and need to split the assets.

Is that being too clinical?

No, that sounds like a great idea actually

 

[Julia]

Sounds like an excellent solution, Prospector.
What reaction have you had from the child to this suggestion?

 

[insider]

OK, how about this for a different slant.

If I am able to afford it financially, when my kids (in late teens and early twenties) decide to marry and purchase a house, I would like to help out a little with some money. Now, I could give it to them as a couple as a gift, but so many divorces very early on concern me and I am thinking I just wouldn't want half of that money to go pffft to the person they had married a couple of years later. So I am thinking I should make it a loan, payable on demand, no interest payable and which would be paid back to me should they divorce and need to split the assets.

Is that being too clinical?

This is really good...

However for something like this to work it should be mandatory to avoid potential disagreements between parents and children...

 

[moses]

OK, how about this for a different slant.

If I am able to afford it financially, when my kids (in late teens and early twenties) decide to marry and purchase a house, I would like to help out a little with some money. Now, I could give it to them as a couple as a gift, but so many divorces very early on concern me and I am thinking I just wouldnt want half of that money to go pffft to the person they had married a couple of years later. So I am thinking I should make it a loan, payable on demand, no interest payable and which would be paid back to me should they divorce and need to split the assets.

Is that being too clinical?

Set up a discretionary trust. Your kids don't get to own the money, and that means their partners can't take it off them. But your kids get the benefit of the money in the trust (interest, capital gains etc), and if it is a discretionary trust the trustee (yourself?) gets to control who gets the benefits each year.

 

[Rafa]

interesting point on Trusts...

most of my assets (excluding the house) are in a family trust, of which I am one of the trustee's... my brother is another, and the beneficiaries so far have been my parents.

i would anticipate my future wife would be an eventual beneficiary...
Would any future legal action would exclude assets in the family trust? I am happy to loose half the house...

 

[ghotib]

OK, how about this for a different slant.

If I am able to afford it financially, when my kids (in late teens and early twenties) decide to marry and purchase a house, I would like to help out a little with some money. Now, I could give it to them as a couple as a gift, but so many divorces very early on concern me and I am thinking I just wouldnt want half of that money to go pffft to the person they had married a couple of years later. So I am thinking I should make it a loan, payable on demand, no interest payable and which would be paid back to me should they divorce and need to split the assets.

Is that being too clinical?

I think it sounds like a great idea, but it might be hard to put together and it might be very tricky to present without seeming like a wildly controlling in-law.

When do you talk to the kids about it - when they're serious about a possible partner? when they're having a general worry about the future, especially housing? when they're engaged, in which case with or without the fiance? when they move in together, with or without intention of marrying (and they mightn't tell you either way).

If you were a future in-law, how would you feel about the "payable on demand" clause? If you don't like one child's partner but not the other, do you offer the loan to one couple but not the other?

If they do split up, how do you and they determine how and when the loan is repaid? Divorce tends to hurt the finances of both parties, especially when there are children. Presumably repaying you would come after supporting the children, if any (presumably you'd want it to as well, but you could still find yourself without access to the money for much longer than you expected).

Very tentatively, I think maybe I'd prefer to make the loan to my child rather than to the couple, and I think I'd make it to start them on the investment path rather than for a home. I think, very tentatively, that I'd see that as part of my educating role, and I'd see the loan and the repayment as providing knowledge and experience which are a permanent gift to my child.

But I don't have kids, so it's easy for my to talk. You have my best wishes Prospector; none of this is easy.

Ghoti

 

[Prospector]

Some interesting points, I think.

For a start, I would do this for both kids, and not as a means of a 'favour' to one or the other. I guess I am also presuming that they wont buy a house to live in until they meet someone they either want to marry or live with permanently (using the term marriage loosely you see!)

If the son's decide to buy a house on their own, then it isnt a problem because they will always own it themselves. And there would be a loan outstanding on it that would never be paid back. The problem comes when they buy a house with another person; the title is in joint names. That is when the loan issue/gift issue arises. The payable 'on demand' only comes into play should they spilt up with each other. It isnt something to be exercised just because they did something I didnt like.

There are obviously issues to consider; we have a family trust but this isnt the kind of thing I could get family assistance with (my brother doesnt even believe in shares for goodness sakes; a trust would totally freak him out
and probably after a period of time; say 10 years, then maybe the loan is considered 'paid in full' or whatever.

All food for thought and they way things are going, we will be moving out and 'downsizing' before my 22 year old budges from his comfortable spot!

 

[YOUNG_TRADER]

All food for thought and they way things are going, we will be moving out and 'downsizing' before my 22 year old budges from his comfortable spot!

You have a 22year old child?

That makes him 1 year younger than me,

That makes you (based on your avatar) a true Yummy Mummy

 

[noirua]

When you marry the first time, marry for love, and on the second and subsequent occasions, marry for money. So, you need a prenuptial agreement on the first marriage and not the second; Most people do it the other way round.

 

[insider]

When you marry the first time, marry for love, and on the second and subsequent occasions, marry for money. So, you need a prenuptial agreement on the first marriage and not the second; Most people do it the other way round.

So are you saying a lot of people are gold diggers deep down? Scary thought... I have a theory that some people marry providers and then have kids with lovers or people on the side and have the providers bring them up... These people may not realise this is going on but it does sub consciously... Our more pre historic urges make us want to always "cheat" and get a better deal.... There's a really good book called 'Sperm Wars'. It will freakkkkkk the pants off ya...

The truth is... Humans are not monogamous like our ideals like to think... Monogamy is part of the values and culture that you are brought up in...

 

[Flying Fish]

yes absolutely, it would put a lot of greedy lawyers out of work, also would save a lot of violence even murders by disgruntled ex partners.

 

[Green08]

I'm interested to know - since the 'financial meltdown' has the thought of a pre-nup changed for you? I've seen the very wealthly fall, kids in private schools removed, oh boy and the arguments of the "but I did this" "I've worked to keep you in a comfortable lifestye". The demands and self importance are a real insight.

None of this is personal to me. I'm happy with my lot in life, however, If I married someone with more assets (pity we can't include moral ethics, cooking ability, intristic knowledge). Or who had less, I would have a pre-nup in order before they moved in let alone marriage.

Why, I want to come out with what I went in with. Should they wish to contribute more, it would be taken with thanks. If not - nothing lost.

The one clause - sleep around behind my back and it's over. Not for moral code, but my health. You want to risk it all for lust be my guest but you risk my health and it's your neck.

 

[SM Junkie]

Did you know that if you or your spouse are in an affair for over 2 years, then the new partner can also have a claim on your wealth when you end the affair?

So much to do these days to protect assets.