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New Zealand a Failed State and a Rogue State to the rest of the World

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Porper said:
Yes, Winston is very popular here. Yeah, Nah
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He certainly didn't win any friends on the other side of politics.

I didn't mind New Zealand when I was there, even if it was like living in Perth 50 years ago, but my missus hated it.
 
wayneL said:
He certainly didn't win any friends on the other side of politics.

I didn't mind New Zealand when I was there, even if it was like living in Perth 50 years ago, but my missus hated it.
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Some friends have been here to visit and love it...as a holiday. Most say they couldn't live here as it's boring as hell! If you like it busy with loads of shops etc N.Z is not the place to be. If you like quiet beaches, great fishing, camping etc...it is.

Winston was just a necessity for Ardern at the time. Don't know how he keeps hugging the limelight. Not with the amount of votes New Zealand first get.
 
Porper said:
Winston was just a necessity for Ardern at the time.
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Lets face it .....New Zealand voters did not decide who was going to govern NZ .....Winnie did and for only reason he could screw the best deal for No 1
and now Auntie Helen has finished playing on big UN stage you can see her meddling in the background too.
The phrase ....'Cunning as a Maori dog'....... sums up our Winnie.

It is interesting that all the accolades for Mrs Ardern seem to come from the Washington Post now they are no bias in any way.

Porper said:
I go to Noosa a fair bit...ok, not a patch on the Coromandel though (where we live).
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I first Traveled to Australia in 1978 to meet the Bride to be's Grand Parents. They had just retired to North Richmond after spending a lifetime growing crops on the banks of the Hawkesbury River at Winsor. They were fine people and they had a tale or two about losing ready to harvest crops to the river only to gain fresh new soil to grow in.
When we first went to Noosa about the only high rise was the newly completed....Hyatt Resort
We were tempted to join lots other Kiwis we knew at that time moving to Aus. particularly with the with opening of Noosa Waters with on the canal blocks selling for $75,000......Haaaaaaah but then life got in the way.

Anyway a bright spot In the Budget was when it was announced the NZ Tourism board is going to spend a truck load on a campaign to lure Aussies across the ditch. It is one that has worked particularly well for us in the past.......and the catch phrase is going to be..... Where the Hell are Yah works for me

All the best

bux
 
As long as they don't pull the 100% pure, clean and green bs. NZ is probably theost toxic place I've lived.

You could go to the top of The Mata and see the haze of various -icides over the whole Heretaunga plain.

My wife used to get spontaneous nose bleeds there
 
I'm interested @wayneL

Could you expand. I've always been told that NZ is one of the least toxic agricultural countries.

gg
 
Sorry Wayne,

I didn't understand a word you said......... but I think I agree

bux
 
Best clarify

wayneL said:
I have no idea what you just said there, but I think I agree
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I am sorry for my frivolous comment on what is... a serious subject.

In some way I have been involved in Horticulture most of my life but the world has moved on in both the Horticultural and Agricultural sectors and I hope your obviously unpleasant experience was not recently.

All the best
bux
 
@bux2000 & @Garpal Gumnut circa 2010. I couldn't count the number of times that just driving around the horticulture areas that our car got overspray from either those torpedo-shaped sprayers or choppers spraying.

We suspected something was amiss when on our first day they're driving between Taupo and Hastings, someone had put up a sign saying "NZ, 100% toxic".

A couple of days later we were buying some vegetables at a purportedly organic farm & right on the boundary next door, someone was spraying and the car park we were in was copying the overspray.

Dairy might be alright be cos they have bred high endophyte rye grasses for grazing, specifically for insect resistance.

The downside is the resultant mycotoxicity causes some pretty bizarre symptoms in susceptible animals... Radical temperament changes, dermatitis, and ataxia (vis a vis "staggers").

All the thoroughbred studs around Cambridge (where I also worked for a while) always had some paddocks set aside where it was necessary to blitz the rye grass and plant the native browntop.

True story: I shod a racehorse called Jimmy Choux who was New Zealand racehorse of the year for 2010/11. It nearly wasn't to be, as a 2-year-old we found him upside down against the ridiculous 7 strand wire fences they have there, completely ataxic and eyes rolling around the back of his head from staggers. By shere good luck there was a concrete water trough in the way which stopped him rolling into the fence and shredding himself to ribbons.
 
What I am about to say is with good intentions and please don't take them the wrong way.

Scientists (Growers) have been genetically modifying crops since the beginnings of time....no not crossing a maize plant with a frogs egg as is betrayed by some projecting their own agenda but simply by natural plant selection. The Dutch in particular are incredibly good at it and in recent years there has been massive strides as to not only how plants are grown but the new varieties available. You would have to admit when now going into a fruit shop, supermarket there is an amazing selection, the seasons for certain crops being extended etc etc.

Can I use one example Tomatoes. I grew up on a property where my Parent's grew glasshouse Tomatoes. Some time later in the 1980's we grew tomatoes in the ground under cover. We grew an Autumn crop meaning they were planted in late December started picking early February through to the end of May at which time the tomatoes were pulled out followed by a crop of cucumbers. Looking back it was just a lot of very hard work. Not blowing my trumpet but I was considered a good grower achieving one carton per plant /per square metre =7kgs

Hydroponics was just starting to happen.

Fast forward to now ...no such thing as a small grower..... the supermarkets have seen to that...so you have operations that more resemble factories, hectares of Glasshouse and efficiency and production that you could only dream of.
Example. The 7 kgs I talked about earlier is now 130 - 140 kgs per year.

Hence no need for NZ to import cheaper Queensland Tomatoes which are picked green stored and when required dipped in Ethral to ripen. the fruit then dipped in pesticide in Australia and gassed when it reached NZ shores to control Queensland fruit fly.

Now to my point sorry it is long winded.

We have 3 glasshouse complexes like have described in close proximity.

I was told by someone recently that the reason the 5 metre glasshouse perimeter walls were shaded white was because the growers did not want to be seen spraying the hell out of the plants inside with nasty chemicals.


1. The reason the Glasshouses are so high is because bugs in general do not fly any higher than 3 metres hence no side vents. The other reason is the plants are left with as much foliage as possible the more foliage bigger the production. Electric platforms are used work high on the plants which are layered..........getting to hard now

2. The vents in the roof are only open when the temperature inside is warm enough, opening firstly as a crack then more as the inside temperature. A by product of this is the air current created makes it hard for the bugs fungal spores etc. to enter. Each property has a full time IT person and they talk lumen per day and lots of other stuff.......well above my pay grade

3. There are strict standards in place for pack houses (Growers) so if a problem with quality,residue or some other health issue the problem can be tracked quickly to the source and rectified. Hence large compliance cost and the decline of small growers. These standards are not only in place domestic market but also for export.......bit like the tracking of Covid 19 I guess

4. Below is a link to a producer of predator insects that all progressive growers employ nowadays to control insects. Yellow sticky strips are placed within the crop to gauge the population of bugs and only then are sprays used. Considering predator bugs are being used those cannot be harmful to the good bugs.

5. Chemicals are so expensive why would you not look for options

https://www.bioforce.co.nz/

https://www.kvh.org.nz/spray_info

Sorry didn't mean to write a book.......... perception is not always as it appears.

bux
 
I once looked at growing beans hydroponically on a large scale in NZ, so can concur with you on that type of production. I am yet to be convinced the orchardists and vineyardists(sic) are as progressive though.

Also, in Hawkes Bay there were fields of tomatoes for canning that were pretty old tech... Dwarf varieties sprayed within an inch of their lives and mechanically harvested.

And boy have I got some stories about the vineyards.
 
Is there an index of countries who misuse herbicides and pesticides, leading to indiscriminate and harmful use?

Perhaps that might clear NZ's position up. Or rather is it targeted use by a large or small number of individuals which is difficult to assess and quantify.

gg
 
Sorry I took so long to write my story we timed out and lost the completed edited version bloody Ether


bux
 
I have had little to do with the grape industry but will try to clarify the use of chemicals both Horticultural and Agricultural.

Brackground
I completed a horticultural apprenticeship in the early 1970's.and gained what was then called a Certificate in Horticulture and Gardening (sounds quite English eh ) I consider myself lucky because the production Managers I trained under were Swiss and one in particular was very well trained (who incidentally moved to Australia set up a nursery and did extremely well).
The Nursery where I worked was very progressive and looked after their staff very well but looking back now the safety standards around chemicals were pretty slack.

The Story
On the property we bought in the 1980's was a large chiller for Rhubarb. Yeh I know Rhubarb Rhubarb.
It was a very large old railway wagon about the size of a 40' container with a chassis that would have supported 2 fuly laiden truck and trailers on end. The main body was mainly timber frame but steel bracing and a rounded bitumen roof. Well the timber part of it burnt pretty good the bitumen roof particularly well ........probably need to down play the rich black smoke . and the trees well they got to be green again eventually.
The next stage was to depart the chassis one of the neighbours further down the road heard about the chassis "a great bridge to cross a stream down the back of the farm" He arrived with his Ford 5000 and 2 long snig chains hanging from the safety frame. Well he hooked up and although the chassis was pretty heavy he had gathered much pace and almost stopped snaking with the slack almost equalising between the two chains by the time he reached the gateway.
It would be fair to say his Eyecrometer was a little off this day and I am certainly no crash investigator so whether it was the tight right turn or the left hand rear of the chassis recosheting off the gate post or just pure momentum, the left front part of the front chassis sure buried itself into the bank on the other side of the road. The tractor came to a dead stop and died but as in slow motion the driver eventually sprawled on the bonnet. The slow motion continued as he gathered his thoughts sat back down on his seat. He appeared quite happy to remain in his seat when we offered to rejig the chains in order to straighten up his load. The sound of the metal scraping on the road carried on well after he disappeared over the brow in the road. The Council grader was redundant for a few weeks.
I him saw about a week later it appeared the slow motion continued.

We were now left with the butress's these were built with earthquakes in mind and obviously engineered on the back of a tobacco packet.
Our next door neighbour had an explosives licence so offered to blow them.......and I said OOOK
He gave me a list and I went off to the local Stock and Station Agent and said to the man behind the counter I would like to buy some explosive. He said 'sure do you know what you want' I said 'yep here is my list'
1 box of Gelignite
30 metres of slow burning fuse
25 detonators
1 crimping tool

He said 'OK the the gelly is in the old freezer out the back ....the fuse wire is in the old fridge and will get you the detonators and the crimping tool. I walked out the door with it all in a carton.

Imagine doing that now........20 police with automatic weapons and would be lucky to get to the door without a bullet through your head........ Times have changed even though the Freezer and the fridge did have a hasp and staple for a padlock

Anyway

I will give this a crack I hope these are links that work

https://cdn.nufarm.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2018/02/06201406/SWeedMaster_TS540_20L_Label.pdf

This should a link to a label for Weedmaster 540 Roundup in a former life. on the back of the container (page 2) it talks about
Hazard classification (How toxic the product is to users )
how the product has to be used under the control of an Approved Handler

https://www.growsafe.co.nz/GrowSafe/Certs/Standard.aspx

This link should talk about how to become an approved handler

I actually had let my Approved Handler Certificate lapse and a few months ago spent a day completing the course.it covered the legal requirements in regard to spray drift obligations to notify neighbours prior to spraying, understanding labels in regard to Hazard classification safe transport and safe storage chemicals, Calibration of equipment etc. etc.

In short if you are not in the possession a current Approved Handler you can not buy chemicals (pesticides and fungicides). For chemicals which are considered very toxic you are required to complete extra training and an inspection is carried out of the premises where the chemicals are to be stored with strict criteria.

All the best
bux
 
So my conclusion is that NZ is even worse than here with red and green tape to even buy a 20l drum of Roundup
I kind of idealized NZ but the lady did not, south island people we met in a trip there were to be honest quite unfriendly, and now that they elected a politician 2.0 caricature, it is a no go as final destination for my retirement years.i still wish them good.
 
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