NBN Rollout Scrapped

orr · 3 June 2015

drsmith said:
Remember that Labor's fanciful FTTP rollout was a smoking train wreck marooned on the side of the tracks when this government came to office.

Ah no it wasn't, unless you had your head buried in the 'Merde och' press.
and some of us have memories that do go back, Like to the smoking ruin the economy was left in by treasurer John Howard ... And Smokin Joe is 'working' his way toward digging the economy into a similar hole, unable to unpick Howard's middle class profligacy over milk sop costello.

Ah and to remember Richard Allston....

Great re-run from 'Working dogs' 'Utopia' last night. The deep truth buried in the episode is the worth of the In Land freight link Melb -Bris .
Don't expect anything from Captain Infrastructure ClownShoes.

And don't take my word for it google 'Roads to Nowhere' the Monthly and get Linsay Fox's take

drsmith · 3 June 2015

sydboy007 said:
I'm not deny that DOCIS 3.1 can handle 1Gbs speeds. I'm asking is the HFC network going to be provisioned for these speeds, or is NBN being forced to take the increase in spectral efficiency and cut CAPEX so that the available bandwidth is such that only up to 100Mbs will be possible?

Morrow has already come out in the Senate Committee and admitted that DOCIS 3.1 will allow them to reduce CAPEX by reducing the node splits ie higher level of contention within the NBN.

Is MT and NBN management being honest when they talk about the potential of 1Gbs via DOCIS 3.1, or is it yet another bait and switch where the eventual product rolled out is far lower than what was promised?

Here you go Syd,

http://www.nbnco.com.au/corporate-i...unleash-fibre-speeds-for-cable-customers.html

Beyond that, you can always send an email across the great void to the dark side.

My bolds.

orr said:
Ah no it wasn't, unless you had your head buried in the 'Merde och' press.

The reference is in this thread if you care to look.

I'm not doing your homework for you.

sydboy007 · 3 June 2015

drsmith said:
Here you go Syd,

http://www.nbnco.com.au/corporate-i...unleash-fibre-speeds-for-cable-customers.html

Beyond that, you can always send an email across the great void to the dark side.

“Effectively, this technology has the potential to offer speeds equivalent to what’s on offer by full fibre to the premises and up to 100 times faster (up to 10Gbps) than what is currently provided by today’s HFC network."

Time will tell if it's media hype or they're actually building the network to deliver what the glossy PR brochures talk about. NBN will be a guinea pig for the new DOCIS 3.1 standard. H/W will be relatively untested in the wild. Hopefully NBN are up to the challenge of dealing with vendors over promising and under delivering. The FTTP network was based on relatively old standards and cheaply mass produced H/W. DOCIS 3.1 H/W is going to be pretty much first gen new release, and a similar price to buying an iphone on launch rather than getting and older product. There's always lots of blood letting when you're at the bleeding edge of technology. Expect repeated s/w and firmware updates to sort out problems and weird network glitches.

Suppose those on FTTN can look on in envy as they suck up their 12/1 18 month speed limit then face the prospect of paying for an up to speed that's provided once in a 24 hour period.

drsmith · 3 June 2015

Read down a little further Syd,

“With this announcement, NBN Co joins an elite group of multi-system operator (MSOs) like Comcast and Liberty Global who have committed to significant DOCSIS 3.1 upgrades of their HFC networks. The upgrade puts NBN Co on a path to offer Gigabit broadband services within a short period of time.

So_Cynical · 6 June 2015

So_Cynical said:
I get Fibre connected on Friday

Thanks Labor, thank you Greens, Thanks Rob and Tony .
~

IFocus · 6 June 2015

So_Cynical said:
Thanks Labor, thank you Greens, Thanks Rob and Tony .
~

Excellent SC hope to join you some time this year

So_Cynical · 6 June 2015

IFocus said:
Excellent SC hope to join you some time this year

Its amazing, i still can't believe i downloaded a 800 meg movie in only 5 and a half minutes.

DB008 · 7 June 2015

So_Cynical said:
Thanks Labor, thank you Greens, Thanks Rob and Tony .
~

Well done.

I recently moved and have a crap internet connection. I'm also on the limit of ADSL (I think a touch over 4km from the cabinet).

Been checking the NBN Co website for updates, but nothing as yet on the suburb l've moved to.

So_Cynical · 7 June 2015

DB008 said:
Been checking the NBN Co website for updates, but nothing as yet on the suburb l've moved to.

It is painfully slow - the rollout, probably can't genuinely even call it a rollout, more like an ease out...from the first time i saw the shiny blue cable in my street to actual availability was about 7 months then another 5 weeks wait for the install.

And my area is Fibre, so the original NBN not the half assed Noalition NBN...the half assed NBN seems to be taking even longer.

sydboy007 · 7 June 2015

So_Cynical said:
It is painfully slow - the rollout, probably can't genuinely even call it a rollout, more like an ease out...from the first time i saw the shiny blue cable in my street to actual availability was about 7 months then another 5 weeks wait for the install.

And my area is Fibre, so the original NBN not the half assed Noalition NBN...the half assed NBN seems to be taking even longer.

Bite your tongue. At a recent Senate Estimates Committee the MTM had added around 70 users. Not sure if any of those 70 is actually a commercial customer. Strangely MT hasn't been terribly forthcoming with the progress of his faster cheaper more affordable network.

sydboy007 · 5 August 2015

Sometimes MTs chutzpah is breathtaking

Back in Feb 201 while in opposition he was saying

“There is enough capacity on private satellites already in orbit or scheduled for launch for the NBN to deliver broadband to the 200,000 or so premises in remote Australia without building its own,” Turnbull said in his statement at the time. That statement appears to have been removed from the Minister’s personal website since that time.

Now he's playing the typical Liberal policy of blaming Labor and in a way rewrite history

http://www.malcolmturnbull.com.au/media/LTSS

“One of the mistakes that Labor made in Government is that it sold its interim satellite service as offering ADSL-equivalent services in the city,” the Member for Wentworth wrote.

“This may have been true of headline speeds that could be achieved, but capacity is different. Whereas you can always make an incremental investment in the core of your network for fixed line – or even fixed wireless – networks to increase capacity, once a satellite is launched, its capacity is fixed until you decide to launch another one.”

“But Labor badly misjudged how much capacity would be needed on the Interim Satellite Service, and crucially underestimated how much demand there would be for the Long Term Satellite Service. A review of the fixed wireless and satellite services found that they had underestimated demand by around 200,000 end-user services. This has meant we have had to do substantial work and invest billions of dollars extra to ensure that we are able to cater for the extra demand <sorry Malcolm but you originally opposed this investment>.”

“They also had no tools to enforce ‘fair-use’ policies meaning that Retail Service Providers (RSPs) and heavy users could use data allowances of up to 60GB a month and clog services at peak times, without having to pay for that.”

“The NBN’s Long Term Satellite Service will be able to identify both RSPs and individual end users and take action to ensure they are not unduly disrupting capacity across the network <something that wouldn't be possible if Labor had followed your but from the private sector policy>.”

Now some reality on Turnbull's claims that the private sector could have met the capacity requirements of rural Australia. Info provided by Matt Dawson who was the NBN satellite coordinator.

Dawson said that NBN Co could probably kluge together something like 6 to 10GHz of capacity through commercially available agreements. The total capacity available to Australia was something like 40GHz, he said. In comparison, nbn’s own satellites would be able to deliver something like 90GHz

.

Once again the Nationals are silent on an issue very important to their constituents. If Labor had followed Turnbull's suggestion there would be no improvement within site for much of rural Australia, and with demand exceeding supply you can be sure that the private sector would have been milking excess profits from the public purse. It's galling he's trying to take credit for what was a policy choice by Labor that he regularly opposed.

One has to wonder if Malcolm still stands by his opposition to the NBN satellite build now that he has removed it from his own web site. Like Abbott has learned with his tweets, once it's on the internet it's out there forever.

Tisme · 5 August 2015

sydboy007 said:
Sometimes MTs chutzpah is breathtaking

Now he's playing the typical Liberal policy of blaming Labor and in a way rewrite history

He's got a reputation amongst his colleagues for being a deflector and Pontius Pilate.

I was watching the ABC the other day when they showed the families out bush who can't get bandwidth to educate their kids. They would have been better staying with school of the air. Anyone who has an iota of knowledge of satellite comms knows ADSL speeds are a whim.

Malcolm is that smug SOB in the room who just has to ask the logical fallacy to cement his own superiority.

What beats me is why Bill Shorten doesn't jump on history rewrites and capitalise on them. Same would apply to any political party being smeared undeservedly (rare indeed ).

drsmith · 6 August 2015

We can see the difference between Labor and Liberal with the NBN rollout by some of the commentary on this forum.

Criticism of MT on commentary made years earlier vs more ongoing problems under Labor.

sydboy007 · 6 August 2015

drsmith said:
We can see the difference between Labor and Liberal with the NBN rollout by some of the commentary on this forum.

Criticism of MT on commentary made years earlier vs more ongoing problems under Labor.

Ah, Labor's satellite solution was to resolve problems. MT spent plenty of time claiming it wasn't necessary.

Now he's trying to claim the Govt is cleaning up Labor's satellite mess when they had already signed the contracts to give the bush a decent service. Labor's solution will provide an excellent service for as long as the satellites have fuel to maintain orbit. MT's solution would have left the bush under serviced for how long?

Can you imagine the stink MT would be going on with now if Labor had followed his advise and teamed up with NewSat.

MT should at least have the decency to admit when he was wrong and accept Labor got this part of the NBN well and truly right.

As for the NBN rollout, so far no commercial services I aware of under the MTM model. Quite likely it will take them 2 years to actually start selling a single MTM service. How long will it take to ramp up to the same speed as the current FTTP? Why is NBN spending tax payers funds to train workers for private companies to do the FTTN work? Seems the contracting companies are bilking the tax payer on this.

Tisme · 7 August 2015

sydboy007 said:
Ah, Labor's satellite solution was to resolve problems. MT spent plenty of time claiming it wasn't necessary.

.

He's always been the Chauncey Gardiner of technology and the internet. He just plods along and everyone hears what they want to hear: even with so many people knowing about marketing these days, it's amazing how branding continues to over shadow product quality.

sydboy007 · 7 August 2015

Tisme said:
He's always been the Chauncey Gardiner of technology and the internet. He just plods along and everyone hears what they want to hear: even with so many people knowing about marketing these days, it's amazing how branding continues to over shadow product quality.

His double standards knows no bounds

In 2010, Malcolm Turnbull introduced a private members bill demanding that the Government release NBN Co’s business case. In 2013, after the previous Government had released NBN Co’s 2011 and 2012 Corporate Plans, the demands kept coming. In 2013, Malcolm Turnbull even criticised the process of submitting draft Corporate Plans to Government.

What has the transparent MT done since becoming Communications minister?

Released a NSA esq redacted Strategic Review and a Corporate Plan that could be characterised as plagiarism based on the SR. Surely having the corporate plan since April is enough time to peruse it and release it? Seems MT is a don't do what I do, do what I say type.

Estimates are the MTM is costing nearly $1B in IT upgrades for NBNs Operational Support Systems. Quite a bit of money for no actual benefit to end consumers. Scale roll out of the FTTN network was supposed to have started by mid 2014. Getting past mid 2015 and there's not a single commercial FTTN service, let alone anything that could be considered a large scale roll out.

I suppose by the election MT will claim all the HFC customers are now happy MTM campers, though it's unlikely much in the way of HFC upgrades will have occurred, so the numerous complaints of poor speeds on whirlpool will likely continue.

Smurf1976 · 7 August 2015

A significant scale of problem is emerging with the NBN equipment it seems, the batteries are failing!

I was in a battery shop today and was told that 7Ah 12V batteries are now generically known as "NBN batteries" and that shop alone had sold 4 today. They're going as far as providing in-home installation for those who can't figure it out themselves, the same sort of service historically reserved for stranded motorists with failed car batteries.

These batteries were a niche product previously, they had a use but not many were sold, but apparently now are the second biggest seller in that shop behind automotive batteries. So they're already outselling batteries used for solar systems, golf carts, power tools and so on at least at that supplier (a major chain retailer).

So, 4 today and that's just one shop in Hobart which isn't exactly the largest market for anything. I see that electrical wholesalers, that's the places where electricians buy their supplies, are also now stocking these batteries. Previously, they didn't generally sell batteries at all. They wouldn't be stocking them if they weren't selling.

I'm told that the crux of the problem is that the batteries supplied are of poor quality and were purchased in bulk 2 years ago, sitting around not being kept charged since that time and that these are still being installed. A poor quality battery, life shortened by sitting around, and they fail after about 6 months.

I went around to a presently empty house just to check on everything for a family member last weekend and noticed that the NBN box is beeping every few minutes and that a red light has come on. I haven't looked into it yet, but based on my conversation with staff in the battery shop today I suspect I'll be back there next week to buy an "NBN battery".

How long should the battery last? That depends on a lot of things but the answer is "several years" not six months.

Tisme · 8 August 2015

Smurf1976 said:
A significant scale of problem is emerging with the NBN equipment it seems, the batteries are failing!

I was in a battery shop today and was told that 7Ah 12V batteries are now generically known as "NBN batteries" and that shop alone had sold 4 today. They're going as far as providing in-home installation for those who can't figure it out themselves, the same sort of service historically reserved for stranded motorists with failed car batteries.

These batteries were a niche product previously, they had a use but not many were sold, but apparently now are the second biggest seller in that shop behind automotive batteries. So they're already outselling batteries used for solar systems, golf carts, power tools and so on at least at that supplier (a major chain retailer).

So, 4 today and that's just one shop in Hobart which isn't exactly the largest market for anything. I see that electrical wholesalers, that's the places where electricians buy their supplies, are also now stocking these batteries. Previously, they didn't generally sell batteries at all. They wouldn't be stocking them if they weren't selling.

I'm told that the crux of the problem is that the batteries supplied are of poor quality and were purchased in bulk 2 years ago, sitting around not being kept charged since that time and that these are still being installed. A poor quality battery, life shortened by sitting around, and they fail after about 6 months.

I went around to a presently empty house just to check on everything for a family member last weekend and noticed that the NBN box is beeping every few minutes and that a red light has come on. I haven't looked into it yet, but based on my conversation with staff in the battery shop today I suspect I'll be back there next week to buy an "NBN battery".

How long should the battery last? That depends on a lot of things but the answer is "several years" not six months.

Those batteries are extensively used in the Security/Access panels and have been for decades. The Yuasa brand is the one that is common, but generally they are swapped out every year or so because of the need for a secure facility.

Smurf1976 · 8 August 2015

Tisme said:
Those batteries are extensively used in the Security/Access panels and have been for decades.

True, but the NBN replacement market vastly exceeds the security panel battery market.

My main point though is that I doubt very much that the average person expected NBN to supply them with a dud battery that fails after 6 months.

IFocus · 8 August 2015

Just had the fibre run to my joint and have the box on the outside wall, the excitement builds, going live some time in the next 6 months.

NBN Rollout Scrapped

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