Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

NBN Rollout Scrapped

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drsmith said:
Perhaps it's a work in progress.
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The worthwhile ones usually are ;)

Just realised my previous response might have been more obscure than I intended. I meant that the opinion page seemed to be missing because the address in your post was incomplete.

Cheers
 
ghotib said:
Just realised my previous response might have been more obscure than I intended. I meant that the opinion page seemed to be missing because the address in your post was incomplete.
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That address is what you get when you hit the Opinion option under the site title header.

It's a problem with the link in his site.
 
IFocus said:
Thanks Ghotib your comments / thinking is / are a pleasant change from the usual dialogue in these threads
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PM Ghotib next time. NBN is a grandiose scheme thought up by an inept MP on the back of a serviette at the tax payers expense. Ooooh dear ... asbestos in a Telstra communication pit. epic fail. Cant come to terms on a point of reference on a contract that will cost taxpayers 100 million $AUD. Brownfield layouts counted in as customer connections? Really is it that bad? Please people ... can we afford as a country to lay waste like this? All for high speed internet ... but at what cost ?
 
trainspotter said:
Really is it that bad? Please people ... can we afford as a country to lay waste like this? All for high speed internet ... but at what cost ?
Click to expand...

I just finished a lovely HD video chat with my significant other in the Philippines...i should say HD from her end because the third world Fibre TTH connection she is using supports it.

From the Australian end the story is not so good, apparently we don't need common world standard internet...only in the developed world is basic infrastructure a political issue.
 
So_Cynical said:
I just finished a lovely HD video chat with my significant other in the Philippines...i should say HD from her end because the third world Fibre TTH connection she is using supports it.

From the Australian end the story is not so good, apparently we don't need common world standard internet...only in the developed world is basic infrastructure a political issue.
Click to expand...

All for the NBN So_Cynical at my end. It's got to be driven by rational economic criteria.

THE Coalition has vowed to "depoliticise" the rollout schedule for the National Broadband Network after it emerged that NBN Co was instructed by Labor to make sure work was started in every federal electorate by the next election.

The Australian can reveal that, earlier this year, the NBN Co received a letter from its then shareholder ministers - former communications minister Stephen Conroy and finance ministers Penny Wong - with the instruction to have started work in all electorates by mid-2016.

Yesterday new Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull said Senator Conroy "did have the electoral map" in mind when setting the design rules for Labor's network.

He also vowed that priority for the rollout under the Abbott government would be for areas with the worst services, following a review of broadband quality in all areas of Australia expected to be completed by the Department of Communications within the next 90 days.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...e-to-all-voters/story-e6frgaif-1226727265180#

:2twocents
 
Let's save 100 million now shall we?

THE Coalition will consider a Tasmanian Labor government plan to pioneer a faster, cheaper rollout of the National Broadband Network using overhead cables, in a potential model for other states.

Labor Premier Lara Giddings has pitched the scheme directly to Tony Abbott and Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull, who have agreed to consider a detailed proposal being prepared by the state-owned Aurora Energy.

The plan would complete the problem-plagued NBN rollout in Tasmania using Aurora's power poles, bypassing problems with asbestos in telecommunications pits and shaving an estimated $100 million from the $300m cost.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...heaper-nbn-plan/story-e6frgaif-1226753829038#
 
During the initial annoucements of the fibre buildout it was said some could be above ground using power poles. Seems some officials have forgotten some things.

Some of the fibre deployment would have been a good time for a number of service suppliers and governments to better develop underground services - for example many powerlines are still above ground.
 
So_Cynical said:
I just finished a lovely HD video chat with my significant other in the Philippines...i should say HD from her end because the third world Fibre TTH connection she is using supports it.

From the Australian end the story is not so good, apparently we don't need common world standard internet...only in the developed world is basic infrastructure a political issue.
Click to expand...

I feel your pain.

May I ask how many $$ in exports you lost because of this travesty?

Because really it is all about export dollars isn't it?

MW
 
boofhead said:
During the initial annoucements of the fibre buildout it was said some could be above ground using power poles. Seems some officials have forgotten some things.
Click to expand...
Perhaps not quiet forgotten,

THE Coalition will consider a Tasmanian Labor government plan to pioneer a faster, cheaper rollout of the National Broadband Network using overhead cables, in a potential model for other states.

Labor Premier Lara Giddings has pitched the scheme directly to Tony Abbott and Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull, who have agreed to consider a detailed proposal being prepared by the state-owned Aurora Energy.
Click to expand...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...heaper-nbn-plan/story-e6frgaif-1226753829038#
 
drsmith said:
Malcolm Turnbull appoints internet entrepreneur Simon Hackett to NBN Co board,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-12/turnbull-announces-nbn-appointments/5085672

Simon Hackett was the author of the following,

http://simonhackett.com/2013/07/17/nbn-fibre-on-a-copper-budget/
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WOW big move, the net community in general has a lot of respect for Simon.. i cant see him being a yes man to MT and i cant see him supporting FTTN, not after the fibre on a copper budget presentation...a simplified FTTP/H (without the dumbed down redundant systems) would be great.

-----------

Simon sold out of iinet about 3 months ago and pocketed something like 50m from memory...perhaps someone had already had a word with him about his future?
 
This today in The Australian on fibre via the pole,

ROLLING-OUT the National Broadband Network via overhead poles would be at least four to six times cheaper than the current underground method, according to a report sent to Malcolm Turnbull yesterday.

The brief - prepared by Tasmania's state-owned power company Aurora Energy - offers to set aside normal commercial objectives to provide NBN Co access to its poles under an existing agreement based largely on cost-recovery.

As well, the report rejects much of the criticisms of overhead rollout, being pushed as a faster, cheaper means of delivery fibre-optic cable nationally - the key aim of the Abbott government's NBN strategic review.

Aurora says there have been "little or no" complaints about the visual impact of the first stage of the rollout in Tasmania, composed of 90 per cent aerial cabling.

"It makes little difference to visual amenity," it says.

The report says this first stage has recorded no extra problems with service disruption due to the use of overhead infrastructure.

It explains that oft-cited downsides to aerial cabling, such as outages during bushfires and storms, cause an average disruption of three hours a year in the most vulnerable rural areas.

Labor Premier Lara Giddings, who commissioned the brief because she feared the trouble-plagued rollout would never be completed to the premise, yesterday sent it to Mr Turnbull, the federal Communications Minister.

"Aurora's opinion is that the NBN can be rolled out in Tasmania more quickly and at a lower cost through increased use of electricity power pole infrastructure," Ms Giddings told The Australian last night.

"It is estimated that a new underground build is at least four to six times the cost of an aerial build. Aurora has advised that this method of rollout could be facilitated under the existing commercial agreements in place between Aurora and NBN Co.

"I am encouraged by reports that Mr Turnbull is prepared to look favourably at the proposal. Aurora representatives are available to brief Mr Turnbull and NBN Co directly, should they require more information."

The 15-page report says by delivering fibre to the premises, rather than node, the aerial rollout would remove the $30 per-premise-per-year cost of maintaining old copper wiring.

Mr Turnbull has publicly accepted that aerial deployment is cheaper and simpler than underground, and has agreed to consider the Tasmanian proposal, being touted as potential national test-case for overhead rollout.

Last night, he forwarded the Aurora report to NBN Co for consideration.

"As Dr (Ziggy) Switkowski, NBN Co's executive chair, has said, there are no 'no-go' areas in the strategic review of the NBN," Mr Turnbull said through a spokesman.

The report says Aurora would not seek to takeover the rollout, which would continue to be completed by NBN Co's contractors, but rather make the poles and wires "rollout ready".
Click to expand...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...e-route-for-nbn/story-e6frgaif-1226760180929#
 
Aurora in Tasmania was building what became the NBN before the NBN as such existed and Aurora already has an operating fibre network serving a number of larger communications users.

They've had a few goes at the communications industry over the years, not always successful but things have been built and they work. It started out as a simple strategy to connect electrical sub-stations via a fibre network for electricity-related purposes and grew from there. If you're going to put a cable in, then most of the cost is getting that cable in place. So you might as well spend a bit more and get a bigger cable (more fibres) and go into the communications business as such. And so they did....

It turned into a bit of a moon shot aiming to compete with the big boys (Telstra) and the early network was built with a lot of goodwill and at low cost financially. I doubt we'll see any free labour on an actual NBN roll-out, but there's a bit of history to all of this and with a bit of luck it will happen.

Sure, it won't be perfect in some ways, but at least we might get an affordable working network installed before Telstra's copper falls in a heap. Aurora has a construction workforce, it has existing infrastructure both underground and overhead and it's government ownership gives it easy access to technical expertise and other resources within Transend (which also has potentially useful existing infrastructure) and Hydro / Entura as well so they have a good chance of actually completing the work in a sensible manner.

There's also a currently unused underground conduit network owned by the Tas Govt in a few areas also. It was installed last decade when Tas Gas (a privately owned company, not government) was installing new gas pipes and follows the same route as the gas. The idea was always to use it for a "fibre to the home" project at a later date. It's limited in coverage, but it exists. Hobart City Council also has an empty underground network in parts of the city, installed during various roadworks with similar intentions regarding future use. There's also a fibre cable within the Vic-Tas power cable as well - it's privately owned but Hydro has a long term lease on it.

Put all that together and something might just happen.... :2twocents
 
medicowallet said:
When I was considering my business, I did due diligence, I worked out budgets, forecasts for potential circumstances, and took a conservative approach with my assumptions.

I thought I would break even between 1-3 years.

I happen to remember some people spruiking that the NBN will be fantastic with returns of blahblagblag, will rollout in whatever time, and with a takeup of humptydoo.

If Rudd hadn't made this up on the fly, perhaps proper planning would have been undertaken, and this bs waste of money wouldn't be such a cluster....

I do agree that it should have been rolled out in areas that would be most economically viable, you can blame Labor for that.

MW

Perhaps if you had ever achieved something of substance you would have less tolerance for incompetence?
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The NBN has never been forecast to break even until 2021.

As Sydboy has stated, there is no similar project in history that could break even in 1-3 years. It takes a year before a started connection can be used, and generate any revenue whatsoever. A year 9 commerce student could understand that basic fact.


trainspotter said:
PM Ghotib next time. NBN is a grandiose scheme thought up by an inept MP on the back of a serviette at the tax payers expense. Ooooh dear ... asbestos in a Telstra communication pit. epic fail. Cant come to terms on a point of reference on a contract that will cost taxpayers 100 million $AUD. Brownfield layouts counted in as customer connections? Really is it that bad? Please people ... can we afford as a country to lay waste like this? All for high speed internet ... but at what cost ?
Click to expand...

The $100bn fantasy cost has long been debunked. While there are time delays, the NBN's fibre connection costs have come in on-budget. The only (minor) cost increase was lower revenue due to delays, not due to higher capex.


drsmith said:
I wonder where Myths is ??



http://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/about/

Perhaps spring time is wedding season and business is booming,

http://www.australianimages.com.au/

It's good to see a small business thriving under a Coalition government. :)
Click to expand...

drsmith said:
He could well have been holding the hose next to TA.

This though is interesting,

http://www.australianimages.com.au/opinion.php



A few days ago, this opinion page on his photography business website had stuff about the NBN. Given the political nature of the NBN, it did cross my mind that mixing business and such an issue could potentially alienate a significant portion of his potential customer base to the extent they venture to that part of his business website.

Not any more. Perhaps he was reading my mind. ;)

EDIT: Although no longer directly through the opinion section, the prior NBN page on his business site though is still accessible.

http://www.australianimages.com.au/opinion/nbn.php
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Have you been missing me?

Sorry, I don't get thread emails for some reason, and as someone suggested I've been a little busy for the last few weeks. My house is still standing, not so for ~half the street though.

I haven't deliberately changed the opinion page links on my site, although I did redo the CSS menu at the top a month back and perhaps put a broken link in there. I'll fix that for you ASAP. :D
 
I suspect that (along with TA), Mal is discovering that criticising from opposition is far easier than actually getting something done.

Seems that British Telecom (who are currently rolling out FTTN) agree with my assessment that rolling out FTTN in Australia by 2016 will be an impossible task.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au...-fttn-network-unlikely-start-rolling-out-2015

The Coalition government’s planned Fibre to the Node (FttN) network is unlikely to start rolling out before 2015, potentially delaying its timetable of providing download speeds of between 25 and 100 megabits per second by the end of 2016 and 50 to 100 megabits per second by 2019.

The proposed FttN network will require the installation of approximately 50,000 to 60,000 nodes and a source told Technology Spectator that at best NBN Co could get 200 nodes rolled out a week.

With the rollout at scale expected to start around early 2015, it could take NBN Co six years to roll the FttN network out at 200 nodes a week

It is understood that the 200 nodes a week figure was flagged by senior British Telecom executive Mike Galvin, who recently spent some time in Australia to advise NBN Co’s senior management and Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull.

NBN Co is currently conducting FttN trials (in lab) and field trials for Fibre to the Basement (FttB) services and the nodes won’t commence until next year.

Commencement of the actual rollout is dependent on a number of factors – the selection of the equipment (kit) vendor, the all-important Telstra renegotiation and the ACCC’s approval.
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(my bolds)

And I repeat: There is not a snowball's chance in hell that Turnbull's promise of 100% of Australian premises having 25Mbps by end2016 will happen.

The question I have for you conservatives, is whether you will be as critical of the Coalition for their poor management/fantasy timetable/lack of research/ignorance of professional opinion as you have been of the ALP? Or will all be forgiven?
 

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