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todster said:
...Choice you can still use wireless like I have to.
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With technology generally moving ahead so quickly, it seems inadvisable to proceed with such an expensive and drawn out infrastructure. IMO, there is a very real risk that wireless or something else may become much more sofisticated and fibre could well become an expensive white elephant.

Todster, if Abbott was in power and as hell bent as Gillard on rolling out a $43b NBN, would you still be batting for it?


I certainly wouldn't.
 
sails said:
With technology generally moving ahead so quickly, it seems inadvisable to proceed with such an expensive and drawn out infrastructure. IMO, there is a very real risk that wireless or something else may become much more sofisticated and fibre could well become an expensive white elephant.

Todster, if Abbott was in power and as hell bent as Gillard on rolling out a $43b NBN, would you still be batting for it?


I certainly wouldn't.
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Why do you keep the $43b price tag?
When $26b is the tax payer part.
Libs and infrastructure in one sentence bahahaha
 
That's the spirit hope for a breakthrough in wireless technology ring Tony with your policy idea.
to late Turnbull already thought of that one :D
 
And to all you people who will be forced off the copper network what about the people who are forced on?
 
Why copper and HFC can't save us
Interesting article about the shortcoming of the current copper system with respect to signal attenuation and the lack of exchange density and what that means for Turnbull's proposed copper work-around to deliver 12Mbps.

...distance realities mean that no matter how many RIMs or pair-gain systems we replace, Coalition strategies are going to do basically nothing to improve service for people that already have ADSL but are simply finding that it's under-delivering. Unless Malcolm Turnbull is going to double or triple the density of Telstra's current 3000-odd exchanges around the country that is not going to change.

...you cannot actually deliver nationwide 12Mbps at a relatively modest cost compared to the NBN. Filling in the gaps I've highlighted would require not only the Coalition's planned RIM-replacement work, but extensive supplementation of the existing exchange infrastructure with new exchanges; billions of dollars to reroute homes' copper services from their existing distant facilities to the new sites; and all this to bolster a copper infrastructure that not even Telstra wants anymore.
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For god's sake if cost was the real issue here then just roll out fibre in metro areas, it shouldn't be that expensive. I wish people would waste time on this political BS and just get on with fibre.
 
todster said:
Julia said:
As I understand it, neither Noco nor anyone else will have a choice as the Telstra copper network will be no more. Such is democracy in this fair land.
Given the NBN will be a monopoly, customers will have no choice but to pay the asking price. And you think this is a good thing, Todster???


Yes, hopefully the pressure currently being applied, and which looks like swinging the independents away from Labor, will eventually require a cost benefit analysis. The Productivity Commission have made it clear they have considerable reservations about the whole project: hence the governments refusal to submit the plan to them.
The government is wrongly assuming the electorate to be so passive and/or so ignorant that they will get away with this.
The evidence is becomingly increasingly to the contrary.



Exactly right, noco. Conroy has already stated that the option to continue with the status quo will no longer exist when the NBN is operational.
Start saving now if you want to maintain a connection to the internet.[/


Choice you can still use wireless like I have to.
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Todster: here is a link to Joe's instructions for how to use the Quote Tags.
Your one line response to my earlier post is indistinguishable from my comments in your post above.
It's not hard and makes communication much more clear for anyone reading posts.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2737
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I have not read the several pages before hand but I will give you my position. I live on the Central Coast in a semi regional area north of Sydney. I can not get any ADSL internet whatsoever. When I moved here I had no idea it was not available and assumed that as it's a fairly new suburb that it would be available. I had NO option but to get onto a wireless plan so I got onto Telstras next G network.

I am a heavy internet user and going from ADSL2 in Sydney to the next G network was a major downgrade. The speeds are slower and I must pay more for less gigabytes. I am on a pair gain system so I was told by Telstra. I am not happy with my current service because it is slower and I can not get more than 12 gigabytes per month and when it rains it frequently goes down and doesn't work at all. This is what I get in a so called first world country, it is lousy. I have had better internet in 3rd world countries where I have lived.

I say we need the NBN to address this issue. I saw a very good debate on insight recently and I see my issues are Australia wide. Mr Turnbull said he could said he could fix these problems for much less than what the NBN would cost. That is all good and well but why didn't he and his mob fix that when they were in power for all those years? I distance myself from any political debate as politics is not the issue, broadband is the issue and this country should have nothing but the best, bring it on, I want my broadband.
 
Bill M said:
I have not read the several pages before hand but I will give you my position. I live on the Central Coast in a semi regional area north of Sydney. I can not get any ADSL internet whatsoever. When I moved here I had no idea it was not available and assumed that as it's a fairly new suburb that it would be available. I had NO option but to get onto a wireless plan so I got onto Telstras next G network.

I am a heavy internet user and going from ADSL2 in Sydney to the next G network was a major downgrade. The speeds are slower and I must pay more for less gigabytes. I am on a pair gain system so I was told by Telstra. I am not happy with my current service because it is slower and I can not get more than 12 gigabytes per month and when it rains it frequently goes down and doesn't work at all. This is what I get in a so called first world country, it is lousy. I have had better internet in 3rd world countries where I have lived.

I say we need the NBN to address this issue. I saw a very good debate on insight recently and I see my issues are Australia wide. Mr Turnbull said he could said he could fix these problems for much less than what the NBN would cost. That is all good and well but why didn't he and his mob fix that when they were in power for all those years? I distance myself from any political debate as politics is not the issue, broadband is the issue and this country should have nothing but the best, bring it on, I want my broadband.
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Bill the opposition would argue that competition or coming technology will solve your problems.

Realities are neither will. wireless is behind the curve and will stay there no matter what anyone says and in your case there will never be a competitive reason to connect you.

I am starting to think if the NBN goes down fact is there will not be another option but there will be delays meaning a lot of people will be angry not to mention lost opportunities.
 
Bill M said:
I distance myself from any political debate as politics is not the issue, broadband is the issue and this country should have nothing but the best, bring it on, I want my broadband.
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Exactly, so do we all, Bill...but not at any price. Refusing to release the business plan, while parliament is in session, is not a good omen.
 
In a bid to win over independent senator, Nick Xenophon, to secure passage of its NBN legislation, the Government has released a 36 page summary of the NBN Co business case, but it is devoid of any pricing information, any estimates of revenue or of service take-up rates.

http://www.itwire.com/it-policy-new...case-summary-leaves-many-questions-unanswered

Be afraid ...... very afraid.

The internal rate of return is also "dependent on completion of the Telstra deal, which has a material impact on construction costs."

*quiver*
 
Julia Gillard says the 50-page summary of the business plan will show the NBN will cost taxpayers less than expected - $35.7 billion compared to the previous figure of $43 billion, The Australian reported.
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Oh look...
It's cheaper than expected. And they just happen to discover this now:rolleyes: I hope people are not that stupid to fall for that type of crap. While I support an nbn, I don't believe in paying whatever it takes.
http://www.news.com.au/technology/breakthrough-on-national-broadband-network-as-senator-nick-xenophon-seals-deal/comments-e6frfro0-1225960153923
 
The 36 page business case summary.

http://demo.idg.com.au/cw/content/NBN-Co-Business-Case-Summary.pdf

The pickings are rather lean in relation to the details of the business case.

Telstra's $9bn NPV equates to $13.8bn in nominal terms over the life of the agreement (to June 2020). In additional to Telstra's payment, capex in nominal terms (to June 2020) is $35.7bn, but what this is in NPV, I could not find. Hopefully the Coalition won't be silly enough too add 13.8 to 35.7 (or 9 to 35.7), as this could be a trap set by the ALP.

Also of interest though is the graphic on page 23 (chart 1). One would imagine that a significant factor with the expectation of a 10-fold in speed every "x" years is a reduction in cost per unit speed (or download quota) of a similar magnitude.

The NBN's expectation of future demand (exhibit 2, page 24) being much less is then very interesting in this context. NBN Co does expect to reduce nominal prices over time, but obviously no where near as much as the chart on page 23.
 
LOLOLOL....

First school superfast broadband 'not reliable'


Concerns about the reliability of the National Broadband Network have been raised by the first school to be connected.

The rollout of fibre optic broadband to Tasmanian schools is continuing.

The Premier, David Bartlett, today visited the second school to be hooked up, St Peter Chanel Catholic School in Smithton in the state's far north-west.

"This is the magnificent prospect that the National Broadband Network offers for the people of Tasmania and for the rest of the nation," Mr Bartlett said.

But just down the road, the first primary school connected says it is struggling with connection speeds less than a third of those promised.

The Circular Head Christian School was hooked up in July.

Principal Patrick Bakes says the internet speeds it is delivering are disappointing.

Mr Bakes says the connection was running at the full speed of 100 megabits per second only on the day of the launch.

"Since then we've found that the speed has come in nowhere near the 100 megabits," he said.

"My technician tells me it averages about 30 megabits per second instead of the 100. So while things are faster, it's not significantly faster."

Mr Bakes says the internet service provider has been trying for months to fix it.

"It was sounding to me like it was an infrastructure problem."

Mr Bartlett says he is not aware of any problems.
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/11/25/3076326.htm

30MB/s is only a touch above full ADSL 2+ speed. LOL

I can imagine how much of a mess the full scale roll out is going to become if this tiny, tiny portion of the rollout is continuing to have major probs.....

The ghosts of Pink Batts past.

Lemme see, Ms Blowhard now says NBN $Aus 43Bn-7Bn cost savings=36Bn.

I disagree & predict 36Bn+10Bn blowout for major revisions & "unforeseen extra costs"=46Bn.

Let's see who's right in 5-10 years!

;)
 
Aussiejeff said:
LOLOLOL....



http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/11/25/3076326.htm

30MB/s is only a touch above full ADSL 2+ speed. LOL

I can imagine how much of a mess the full scale roll out is going to become if this tiny, tiny portion of the rollout is continuing to have major probs.....

The ghosts of Pink Batts past.

Lemme see, Ms Blowhard now says NBN $Aus 43Bn-7Bn cost savings=36Bn.

I disagree & predict 36Bn+10Bn blowout for major revisions & "unforeseen extra costs"=46Bn.

Let's see who's right in 5-10 years!

;)
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You should see what they do to peoples driveways laying the cable. I wonder if fixing them will be added to the cost?
 
moXJO said:
You should see what they do to peoples driveways laying the cable. I wonder if fixing them will be added to the cost?
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I suspect that where I am, the fibre cable will just replace the copper cable strung from one termite meal to the next and that in about 2020.

I guess I'll just have to do with 12mb/sec from Telstra's ageing copper. That's if the termites don't bring it down it first.
 
I've hesitated to comment on this until now.

One should never invest all one's kopeks in infrastrucure or technology.

For example re nbn , there is much work being done on biological transfer of information, not through wire or wifi, but through organic cells.

I have a modest 20k invested in a US startup in this technology.

The ole sheila Gillard and whatsisname Conroy will go down in history after Rudd as having wasted more of our nations assets than any before.

Some silly teenage bastard at this moment in some garage somewhere in the world is working on making pillock adventures like nbn defunct.

gg
 
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