Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

National Broadband Network

Jump to new
I imagine all you glass half-empty guys would have been squealing 60 years ago when the copper was being laid out that it was a waste of money and would end up being a white elephant. You've spent all you efforts telling us why it is such a bad idea, do any of you see any positives to the initiative?

Here is a nice little graph showing the increase in internet traffic since 1994 and the predicted growth in the next couple of years (PB = Petabyte = 1 million gigabytes or 1,000,000,000,000,000bytes). Any idea how we will be a part of this growth without an NBN or equivalent?
 

Attachments

  • global.monthly.net.traffic.jpg
    global.monthly.net.traffic.jpg
    81.6 KB · Views: 38
bellenuit said:
Just another point on the Tasmanian rollout being on time and on budget.

According to an article in today's The Australian, the NBN has been rolled out to just 70 homes in Tasmania.
Click to expand...
A bit of background on the Tasmanian roll-out:

Started by state-owned Aurora Energy (electricity distributor and retailer) as a means of connecting its own substations to a reliable communications network for purposes relating directly to electricity distribution.

Then it spread to the broader large sites market (government and corporate), still under Aurora's control and ownership.

Then along came the NBN and connections to households etc.

What must be understood, is that any reference to costs, timeframes etc relates to a project conceived and implemented by a state-owned electricity company which isn't exactly flush with cash right now. Of course they've done it as cheap as they can, something I can confirm.

To compare what Aurora has done in Tasmania versus what might be done on a larger scale within the state or nationally is very much comparing apples and oranges.
 
So_Cynical said:
We need a smart electricity grid...and before we can spend the money on the smart grid you need a information delivery system...say something like a national (light speed) fibre optic network to enable the upgrade of the national electricity grid to a smart grid.
Click to expand...
I've yet to meet anyone who, when they understand exactly what all this "smart grid" stuff entails, is overly keen on it.

Yes it's wonderful for the electricity generation industry if it can decide when you will cook dinner, whether or not you can do the washing or have the heater on right now and so on. A great way of lowering capital investment requirements that's for sure.

But I have a feeling that your average family won't be so keen once they realise that they no longer have a 99.95% reliable electricity supply to do as they please with and that control has been centralised.

If I want the heating on when it's 5 degrees outside then that's what I want - heating. I sure don't want someone at AEMO deciding that I'll be happy shivering until after 8pm when demand has dropped.

Oh for the days when electricity companies saw it as a great embarassment if they couldn't meet consumers expectations in full on the coldest day of Winter and the hottest day of Summer.

We need a new communications network because the copper lines have been almost totally neglected and are in a terrible state. In that context the NBN is effectively a Telstra bailout. Soon we'll need a new power grid too once that's been wrecked through turning the supply of power into little more than the casino which it is today. Just like competing companies messed it up before, leading to the creation of the various state electricity authorities to fix it. Just like my taxes have bailed out bankers who couldn't bank and railway companies that couldn't maintain trains.

Put a few engineers in charge of infrastructure and kick out these clowns who want to turn everything into a casino. Then we might get reliable water, communications, transport, power etc that we can actually afford to use. It worked fine that way not too long ago...

PS Just a thought, but what happens to all the asbestos associated with the old copper network when it is abandoned? Do my taxes pay for cleaning that up too? There's huge amounts of it all over the place from inner city to the bush.
 
Go and read Calliopes post #273 .... It's a corker !! 1 million people do not even have internet. How are they going to afford it? Must be some Guvmint thingyamijiggy I don't now about yet as a TAXPAYER. What about the hospitals and schools that already have high speed internet. What about most of Melbourne that has Telstra Foxtel that can already deliver 100 mbps to satisfy the proleteriat.

Whoopeeee we all have internet ..... at blindingly fast speeds. WHAT FRIGGING good is it to me when my hospital doesn't have nurses or doctors. What good is this shiny blue cable going to help Policemen attend to a domestic dispute because they are busy at a traffic accident. How is it going to get more teachers that have the brains to teach my kids? Will it FIX roads? Will it fix the rundown electricity grid? Will it fix the dams for our water? Will it give my council more money to pay for books in the local library? HUH "" NO ... I MEAN HUH?

Do you even understand the consequences you guys are talking about?

WOW ........ I got this great new bit of cable that connects me to the internet so I can wait for a policeman whilst my home gets broken into. So I can sit in the emergency centre at the hospital while I wait for a doctor. So my kids can sit in front of a screen rather than have human interaction.

GEORGE ORWELL ....... eat your freakin heart out. You are creating an US and THEM society all over again.

"I have NBN connected to my home" says the higher socio economic white trash.

"I can't afford a computer nor the monthly cost of NBN" says the truly deserved person of such technology.

GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZUUUUUUUUUUZ KEEEEEEEEEERRRHIIIIIIST !!
 
trainspotter: Are you saying NBN is only going ahead because they don't want to do any extra than they are doing to health? Surely the government is spending money in many areas, some that is not to the best value or suitable.
 
boofhead said:
trainspotter: Are you saying NBN is only going ahead because they don't want to do any extra than they are doing to health? Surely the government is spending money in many areas, some that is not to the best value or suitable.
Click to expand...

Not saying that at all boofhead. I have agreed that we need the NBN several times. I am saying we need to get our **** sorted first BEFORE we embark on another windmill charging expensive bauble.

The Govt has agreed to spend money in lots of areas YES. NO I have not seen ONE bit of improvement.

Wait a minute ... is this an election bribe? Ohhhhhhhh the irony.
 
As I've said before, I'm not against the concept of NBN, just have concerns at the ability of government to handle such a major infrastructure with a huge price tag and the eventual cost to home owners. Billions seem to roll off the tongue these days as easily as millions.

An article from the Australian - "Homes to pay heavy price for internet from NBN":

"HOME owners face a heavy slug to distribute the ultra-fast internet access promised by Labor's National Broadband Network around the house.

Projections for the take-up of the government's $43 billion NBN could prove optimistic once households realise they face costs of up to $3000 to fully exploit the potential of the super-fast internet..."

and

"...Although the fibre will come to the house, families will have to invest hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars hardwiring their homes so they can access the technology to its full potential and use many bandwidth-intensive activities at once..."
Click to expand...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...nternet-from-nbn/story-fn59niix-1225907517167
 
sails said:
As I've said before, I'm not against the concept of NBN, just have concerns at the ability of government to handle such a major infrastructure with a huge price tag and the eventual cost to home owners. Billions seem to roll off the tongue these days as easily as millions.
Click to expand...

It's the word "fast" that sucks everybody in. If you offered me a Ferrari, it would be a waste of money. My Hyundai suits me admirably. I live in a regional area and my ADSL2+ speeds are not flash but they would suit 90% of householders very well. With a download quota of 50gb, the cost is quite affordable.

And as you may have noticed at the supermarket the fast lane doesn't always guarantee you a fast service.
 
trainspotter said:
Not saying that at all boofhead. I have agreed that we need the NBN several times. I am saying we need to get our **** sorted first BEFORE we embark on another windmill charging expensive bauble.

The Govt has agreed to spend money in lots of areas YES. NO I have not seen ONE bit of improvement.

Wait a minute ... is this an election bribe? Ohhhhhhhh the irony.
Click to expand...

And what is a sufficient amount of nurses etc? We always need more, there will never be an appropriate time for this, we could have a policeman on every corner and it still wouldn't be enough. We are spending 57 billion on health next year alone, if we added the 43 billion from the NBN over 8 years to health care it would increase the funding by under 10%. ADSL2 is all we need now but it wont be in 8 years time which is why we must invest in this now and not in 8 years time.
 
A taste of things to come:

http://www.iinet.net.au/press/releases/20100818-iinet-age-of-terabyte-arrives.pdf

"iiNet launches the Age of the Terabyte"

$99 for 1TB (500G/500G peak/off peak) over their ADSL2+ network currently. But more importantly, same price and you'll get 100Mbit/8mbit over fibre on the NBN.

Hello Hello Dot Com Dot Au.

TPG and Primus quickly countered, all this and only 70 people have been connected to fibre - in 5 years time 100mbit/8mbit with 3-5TB of data will probably be the norm in the $50 pcm range.

Bring it.
 
Those numbers are not quiet as rosy as they appear.

With those plans, iinet has moved to metering both uploads and downloads.

The shaping is more generous though if you do bust the monthly quota bank.
 
iinet has had a number of plans that meter uploads for well over one year so that isn't new.

As for only 70 people connected - only 70 people connect to the current network controlled by NBN. There are other fibre establishments - maybe that is what people should look at for pricing as that is all commercial development.

July 2011 is when the ACCC is supposed to have their bit to say about pricing.

While NBN is government owned it isn't directly a government department running it. It actually has proper IT and management.

It reaffirms that scare makes a bigger impact.
 
overhang said:
And what is a sufficient amount of nurses etc? We always need more, there will never be an appropriate time for this, we could have a policeman on every corner and it still wouldn't be enough. We are spending 57 billion on health next year alone, if we added the 43 billion from the NBN over 8 years to health care it would increase the funding by under 10%. ADSL2 is all we need now but it wont be in 8 years time which is why we must invest in this now and not in 8 years time.
Click to expand...

So if the amount of money spent is 57 billion on health and we still can't get it right please explain what a shiny bit of cable is going to do? Get results quicker to non existent people who are not there to do what again?

I AM ALL FOR THE NBN .. Last time I am going to write this BTW ... If we are spending 57 billion on health and we still cant get it right but one of the reasons we need the NBN is to make it easier to have nurses in remote areas to help doctors diagnose diseases.

NOW DO YOU SEE WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING ?

What freaking nurses? we are spending 57 billion (your words not mine) and we still cannot improve our health services. So when is the right time?

Man oh man I must be stoopid to not be able to grasp this concept.

A shiny bit of cable will help this ? HUH ?
 
OK OK OK OK .... I was having this very same discussion with one of my deckhands and he was all for the NBN. I said "Sure ... what a great idea, I'll tell you what I will do. I will replace the Furuno radar on the boat with a Navitron X digital so we can pickup ships over the horizon." Should only cost me about 70k to replace. This is the whole budget to run my boat for a whole year. So great we have the best technology known to man.

Not much good to me now that I cannot afford to take the boat out as I have neglected to spend money servicing the motor to make the boat go and run the genset that makes electricity to fire up the whizz bang radar.

Yippeeeeeeeeeee ! This is why he is the deckhand. :banghead:
 
trainspotter said:
So if the amount of money spent is 57 billion on health and we still can't get it right please explain what a shiny bit of cable is going to do? Get results quicker to non existent people who are not there to do what again?

I AM ALL FOR THE NBN .. Last time I am going to write this BTW ... If we are spending 57 billion on health and we still cant get it right but one of the reasons we need the NBN is to make it easier to have nurses in remote areas to help doctors diagnose diseases.

NOW DO YOU SEE WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING ?

What freaking nurses? we are spending 57 billion (your words not mine) and we still cannot improve our health services. So when is the right time?

Man oh man I must be stoopid to not be able to grasp this concept.

A shiny bit of cable will help this ? HUH ?
Click to expand...

And I want to know when will it be right? When will you ever be happy with the health care? We could spend 1 trillion and people still would complain about insufficient nurses. Now how about if every 2 nurses that fill out paper work for every one nurse that does the rounds actually did some hands on work we would probably see an improvement in health care instead of everyone screaming for additional funding. And to answer your question E-health is a crock of crap that is just a smoke screen so conservatives can see a benefit now and not in 8 years time. If you want to fix health care how about actually promoting preventative health care, tax fast food and subsidize gym memberships but why do that we can just pump billions more dollars to get the obese through doors.
 
Is it true that it will cost between $3000 and $5000 to get it from yer gate, to your living room?

What a bloody con, if it is.

gg
 
Garpal Gumnut said:
Is it true that it will cost between $3000 and $5000 to get it from yer gate, to your living room?

What a bloody con, if it is.

gg
Click to expand...
That is probably if you set up a home network and wire up every single room in the house to have a connection. I cannot see how running a cable to one or two outlets in your house is going to cost $3000-$5000. Getting a new phone line installed is only a few hundred dollars.

Just more scare tactics I think gg.
 
Garpal Gumnut said:
Is it true that it will cost between $3000 and $5000 to get it from yer gate, to your living room?

What a bloody con, if it is.

gg
Click to expand...

That's so silly is almost a 'push polling' type post...when you post rubbish like that, without any substance to back it up, it really makes you look like a liberal stooge.
 
So_Cynical said:
That's so silly is almost a 'push polling' type post...when you post rubbish like that, without any substance to back it up, it really makes you look like a liberal stooge.
Click to expand...

Sorry Cynical, but this country had to put up with much worse rubbish yesterday with a certain female voice droning on and scare mongering about work choices. She should know that changes to work choices would have to get past the senate and that's a near impossibility. No substance, IMO.

How can you trust this government to know what it's doing with NBN when
(a) it's track record at managing anything is dismal
(b) it lowers itself to scaremongering on something that is obvious won't happen - especially this Monday...:rolleyes:
 
Top