Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Lithium

Only the big guys like WES will be able to wait out the low price, supply difficulties, lack of labour and inflationary costs.

Deep pockets will be required and I wonder if other ASX Li stocks will be able to avoid dilution or capital raisings

gg
 
Well, yes. The big unknown in all these things that seem to be entered into the spreadsheets as a matter of faith
two-thirds of new automobile sales would be electric or hybrid in 2030
 
Well, yes. The big unknown in all these things that seem to be entered into the spreadsheets as a matter of faith

Yeah, that's 'new' vehicles, which is an interesting part to this story. I've only ever bought two new vehicles out of the 17 cars and bikes that I have owned. With EVs still vastly more expensive than ICE cars, I wonder if economics are going to reduce the number of people even able to buy an EV as opposed to an ICE with 100k on the clock. At 55, and with a 10 year old TT, and a Vesper, I'm not sure if I'll ever need an EV. I might just hold onto the toys I have. Maybe I'm missing that petrol prices will get out of control and the government will start adding an ICE tax onto my registration shortly...
 
Deep pockets will be required
You're getting closer ...

Your reference should be the Kwinana refinery ran by IGO and Tiangi.
That refinery started construction in 2017 and was meant to be commissioned by 2018.
By 2020 costs had doubled, the JV company’s investment per ton of lithium hydroxide ($/tLiOH) for Kwinana was 10 times higher than a similar converter Ganfeng developed in China.
Awaiting nameplate capacity being announced from Train 1....
 
Because Albemarle is a significant player in Aust lithium, although US listed, perhaps it deserves its own thread?
And they're still angling. ... expand existing WA operations or a bit of M&A?

"We see Australia’s spodumene as being a very viable resource to support [our] European expansion strategy,” Albemarle president of energy storage Eric Norris said.

What we haven’t quite worked through is the footprint, what we’d be shipping out of Australia, whether it be 6 per cent spodumene or some intermediate. And the sizing of that, in terms of how big a plant we’re talking about, is still under investigation.

But assuming we’re successful [with permitting in Europe], we believe a strong supply chain would be Australia into Europe. And that, again, just speaks to the significance on a global basis of how the industry can leverage WA and how we as a leader intend to leverage Australia as critical in our supply chain..."
 
Good afternoon,

This is article is all about China's reliance on Lithium Carbonate.

Interesting read, written for Boomerang News on Friday (10/03/22). Can be interpreted in a number of ways, but certainly provides weight, for mine, some insight, as to China's carbon footprint on the balance with using/ finding more high-grade Lithium. As most people would probably be aware, China has some major carbon issues and according to that article it has some major Lithium mining planned to cater for its unsatiable demand.

Now rcw1 is no rocket scientist, far from it... image that ha ha ha ha ha .... but there is no way China is going to get enough of the stuff to compliment a uniform reduction in their Carbon Footprint to medium term, moreover satisfy its demand. They got to look to outside, the external market, moreover, according to the Boomerang article, "... despite a drop of over 40% from its November peak, lithium carbonate, a refined version of the metal, is still eight times more expensive in China than it was in 2020."

Kerry Sun has written an article for Market Index on 7 March 2023 providing a summary on Citi's downgrading of its zero to twelve month outlook for lithium prices.

Citi has downgraded its zero to three month point price for lithium. This includes::
  • Lithium carbonate from US$60,000 to US$40,000
  • Lithium hydroxide from US$62,000 to US$45,000
The investment bank has also downgraded its six to twelve month point price:
  • Lithium carbonate from US$55,000 to US$50,000
  • Lithium hydroxide from US$57,000 to US$53,000

What does rcw1 believe? Prices go up and prices go down. Lithium price is no different. With spectacular upward trend, punters, would be alarmed, not so much regarding the rise, but as to whether or not this could be maintained for an extended period of time. Traders, Fast Traders and Investors hopefully cashed in accordingly in line with the market and their trading/investing methodologies.

It is anticipated that the price would fall back consistent with demand and supply as per whatever reason(s) one tends to lean towards. Plenty been written on the subject and why's and the projections. Who would know for sure... Regardless, rcw1 will closely watch all Lithium stocks on watchlist. rcw1will continue to fast trade PLS et. al. on the SP rise, to take advantage of any highlighted momentum that is guaranteed.

Have a very nice week.

Kind regards
rcw1
 

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Business News
January 21, 2019 / 5:28 AM / Updated 2 hours ago
Berkshire's lithium venture may supply U.S. automakers, including Tesla: FT

(Reuters) - Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway Inc has signed an agreement to allow extraction of lithium from its geothermal wells in California, a project that could offer U.S. carmakers and battery producers a secure supply of the metal, the Financial Times reported on Sunday.


The venture has been in talks to supply Tesla Inc with lithium, a component for batteries to power electric cars, the newspaper reported, citing people familiar with the company.

Berkshire Hathaway’s geothermal wells could produce up to 90,000 tonnes of lithium a year worth $1.5 billion at current prices, the report said, citing a fundraising document. More......

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-berkshire-lithium/berkshires-lithium-venture-may-supply-u-s-automakers-including-tesla-ft-idUSKCN1PE0SX?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+reuters/businessNews+(Business+News)
Not sure about the value of Lithium miners because supply is plentiful however it is refined lithium that makes the money. Refiners are making the big bucks and most are in China. I invested in this company https://energyx.com/ who will do another round soon because they have a process to refine it much faster and at much lower cost that they developed after proving prototypes in the field. They have over 60 patents and will sell their technology to refiners. Their videos are compelling and I listened to a long interview with the founder which impressed me. Elon Musk has broken ground on his own refining plant in the US so that might supply his needs.
 
Lithium has kinda fallen out of favour (well hasn't everything?.
But Livewire markets says its not yet time to dump lithium stocks.
Lithium carbonate pricing is another, given that the metal is one of the core components of the lithium-ion batteries used in most EVs – nickel-hydride batteries are often used in hybrid vehicles.

Demand for EVs is ramping up strongly – as is the demand for lithium, which is also a key element in several other applications, including renewable energy production and storage batteries.

So, why are lithium prices down 40% since last November? Back then, the commodity was trading above US$86,100 per tonne, this figure is now US$47,417, according to Trading View.

The prices of lithium spodumene – the most widely exploited mineral source of lithium – have risen from US$400 a tonne three years ago to a peak of around US$6,000, before pulling back to US$4,500.

Falling EV sales in China, combined with the Lunar New Year holiday, have driven the correction in lithium prices, as Goldman Sachs analyst Aditi Rai told Barron's last month.

Five-year lithium spodumene price

Screenshot%202023-03-16%20at%201.27.48%20pm.pngLithium price (Chinese Yuan). Source: Trading Economics


“Chinese lithium prices took the staircase up but the elevator down,” wrote my Market Index colleague Kerry Sun recently in an article about battery metal stocks, referencing the work of investment bank Citi.

China is one of the world’s largest producers of lithium, alongside Australia, and Chile.

Australian production comprises around 50% of the world’s total lithium output. Allkem (ASX: AKE) and Pilbara Minerals (ASX: PLS) are among the best-known large-cap stocks on the ASX. Allkem’s share price has fallen 7.65% in 2023 so far, while Pilbara shares are down 4.67% in the same period.

But there are many others producing lithium and other metals that are key to the manufacture of EV batteries. Two ASX juniors in the space are Core Lithium (ASX: CXO) and Liontown Resources (ASX: LTR).

Both missed consensus earnings expectations in the first half of FY2023, as we discussed recently with David Franklyn, who heads up the Argonaut Natural Resources Fund. He sums up their results like this:

CXO – “Wait and watch as Core enters the higher-risk commissioning phase.”
LTR – “Significant uplift in construction costs but on track for first production mid-2024.”

Why are investors now cautious on lithium?

In a word, 'price'. Franklyn notes (as pointed out above) lithium prices are down 46% in the past six months and 14% in the last week alone.

“This seems appropriate, given the weakening in the lithium price combined with more company-specific issues such as the total overhaul of its management team in the last year,” he says of CXO.

The company has replaced its managing director, chief operating officer and chief financial officer in this timeframe. It is also entering the higher-risk commissioning phase of its Finnis lithium mine in the Northern Territory.

“It also failed to conclude an offtake agreement with Tesla and operations have been negatively impacted by above-average rainfall,” Franklyn says.

And on LTR, he says the market was encouraged by management’s renewed commitment to producing its first lithium by mid-2024,

“But investors are wary of the weakening lithium price, and a capex funding gap of around $200 million due to the higher development cost and mine plan modifications,” Franklyn says.

“Like Core, it’s all about project delivery from here.”

He points out that LTR’s share price is down 15% over the past six months and 12% in a single week.

What are the recent surprises from CXO and LTR?

For CXO, it was the first shipment of 15,000 tonnes of direct shipping ore (DSO) to China just after the end of the half. (Note: This isn’t the main game of spodumene concentrate, which is set to see first production in the first half of calendar 2023).

Franklyn also cites the positive results of the company’s drilling program, with further scope to expand this beyond the initial target of 250,000 tonnes per annum.

Project funding shortfall

The first stage of LTR’s Kathleen Valley mine in Perth, Western Australia is expected to produce up to 550,000 tonnes of spodumene. This figure is set to lift to 770,000 tonnes in stage two.

“Major uncertainty is around development cost and how this will be funded,” says Franklyn.

“Available debt and equity capacity is currently $685 million, which is likely to see it short by around $200 million. Alternatives to close this gap include selling DSO, offtake prepayments, or increasing debt or equity.”

Buy, Hold or Sell?

Rating: Hold (for both)

Franklyn and his team currently rate Core Lithium and Liontown as HOLD. In the former, he notes the company retains about $125 million in cash and is closely watching the progress of its increased production of spodumene before reassessing this view.

It’s a similar story for Liontown: “We’ll watch for project progress and are also looking for clarity around additional funding.”

Outlook: “It’s time to deliver”​

Emphasising his earlier remarks, Franklyn says it’s all about project delivery for both LTR and CXO.

In CXO’s case, he believes a re-rating would be in order if it can successfully commission the project on time, within the budget, and hit production targets.

At LTR, Franklyn is watching for more clarity about the effect of mine plan amendments and how management intends to close the capex funding gap – the latter point being critical.

Where are lithium prices headed?

“We expect further weakness in the spodumene price in the medium term, as it pulls back from extraordinarily high levels achieved in 2022,” Franklyn says.



“While this will no doubt have a negative impact on market sentiment towards the sector, the price is still very attractive and will deliver strong returns to scale producers.”
Mick
 
Good morning

Been reported today 22/03/23:

Macquarie lowers its short-term lithium price forecasts but raises its long-term forecasts.They lower their CY23 regional lithium prices by 21-23 per cent and cut Chinese lithium prices by 24%-28 per cent to reflect weak spot prices.They also trim their CY23 spodumene price forecasts by 18 per cent due to mark-to-market.But they lift their long-term lithium and spodumene prices by 10-25 per cent, underpinned by escalating operating costs for existing lithium operations and rising capital costs for new entrants.

“We remain constructive on the lithium market outlook despite near-term headwinds from lower lithium prices and slow EV sales," the broker says. MIN and PLS are its preferred Australian producers.

Have a very nice day today.

Kind regards
rcw1
 
Bloombergs, via Zero Hedge goes a little further.
The price of lithium has experienced a significant decline over recent months, resulting from a deceleration in electric vehicle sales and an increasing supply of the key ingredient used in battery packs.

Since November, the average price of battery-grade lithium carbonate in China has plunged from $84,500 per metric ton to $42,500, or about a 50% decline, according to Bloomberg data.
Snag_a5e952e.png
Vivek Chidambaram, the senior managing director for strategy at Accenture, a consulting firm, told NYT the plunge in lithium prices could be attributed to the slowdown in electric vehicle sales. He said tight supply last year, which resulted in skyrocketing prices, has shifted into surplus this year as suppliers are producing more battery-grade lithium carbonate than ever before.

"There was a time when people believed electric vehicles would grow very rapidly. Then the reality of how fast they were actually growing caught up." He expects lithium prices to moderate over the next several years.
In the second half of 2022, EV demand slowed due to China's ending of subsidies to stimulate sales in the world's largest EV market. Then in the US, the world's second-largest EV market, Tesla began discounting vehicles in December.

1679440255867.png
On Monday, Matty Zhao, an Asia Pacific basic materials analyst at Bank of America Securities, told CNBC that last year's lithium shortfall, which sent prices soaring, could pivot into a surplus in 2023, with "a lot of supply coming out" from mines.
"We are expecting 38% lithium supply growth this year. That's why 2023 is likely to turn into a surplus year for lithium," Zhao said.
Cobalt, another crucial component in batteries, has seen prices plummet by over 50%. Meanwhile, copper, a key metal in electric motors and batteries, has experienced an 18% decline.
On a positive note, the decline in lithium prices could make EVs more affordable by lowering the cost of battery packs.

Mick
 
Lithium prices in China still falling, 299500 CYN/T

Chinese automaker Nio Inc. foresees lithium prices will “quite likely” drop to around 200,000 yuan or lower in the fourth quarter, Chief Executive Officer William Li said in an earnings call this month.

Do we still think GS, Citi and UBS are clueless when it comes to Lithium prices? where are all the keyboard warriors?

The largest, ALB, trying to bounce of lows..
 

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Lithium prices in China still falling, 299500 CYN/T

Chinese automaker Nio Inc. foresees lithium prices will “quite likely” drop to around 200,000 yuan or lower in the fourth quarter, Chief Executive Officer William Li said in an earnings call this month.

Do we still think GS, Citi and UBS are clueless when it comes to Lithium prices? where are all the keyboard warriors?

The largest, ALB, trying to bounce of lows..

Yes, lithium has dumped hard. So has a whole bunch of growth plays.

Unlike the other high risk plays, lithium should capture any policy driven demand that is likely to occur in the future.
 
It's quite peculiar that there are still people unsure about whether or not to believe the likes of Goldman Sachs.

It's amazing how blatantly and publicly and repeatedly lies can be told, with blatant agendas, by the same people or groups, and still be believed.

I think we need a new version of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf", and not just for children. The plot needs to change a little and it should be from the perspective of the masses, not the boy. Rather than telling people not to lie in order to avoid not being trusted in the future, we need to teach people not to believe liars.

Of course, the current governments and corporations from big pharma to GS would oppose it every step of the way.

This isn't aging very well. All the fuss about lithium being toppy in Nov/Dec last year and competing predictions from GS and Minerals Intelligence informing lithium miners on supply/demand and price projections is bearing out. Still, at the time bearish GS had a buy on AKE at over $15 and it's now $10, so maybe they were shorting it in the background. Doing a Morgan Stanley during of the GFC.

Screenshot 2023-03-24 at 8.24.18 am.png
 
This isn't aging very well. All the fuss about lithium being toppy in Nov/Dec last year and competing predictions from GS and Minerals Intelligence informing lithium miners on supply/demand and price projections is bearing out. Still, at the time bearish GS had a buy on AKE at over $15 and it's now $10, so maybe they were shorting it in the background. Doing a Morgan Stanley during of the GFC.

View attachment 154899

Keep in mind that the Chinese market is quite insular and the spot market for lithium outside China has not fallen to anything like the numbers within China. Also keep in mind that any information at all coming out of China is to be treated with extreme scepticism.

Obviously when you have multiple banks failing in the USA etc etc, the whole market is going to panic in the short term, and anything at all which has recently rallied is going to be especially vulnerable.

Keep in mind that even the current price being reported by China is about the same as it was about a year ago, which is still multiples of what it was a year before that (or significantly higher than any time previously).

Obviously prices across the board will fall when the world is freaking out about American banks failing, but long term the lithium supply deficit is still guaranteed unless the electric car thing turns out to be a fad and we all go back to embracing fossil fuels. Actually, in the long term this price slump will probably make the supply deficit worse since it will impact supply, and supply is more difficult to ramp up than demand.

And, obviously, actions speak louder than words, and while GS said lithium was all doom and gloom, they were literally buying up. If that doesn't tell you what they actually expect, there's no reason for anyone to bother talking to you.
 
Support at $100,000 perhaps?

BEIJING, March 31 (Reuters) - "China's top lithium producers agreed this week to set a floor price of 250,000 yuan ($36,380) per tonne of lithium carbonate, six people familiar with the matter said, in an effort to slow a plunge in the price of the battery raw material.

"The price was agreed on Tuesday by around 10 companies including Tianqi Lithium and Ganfeng Lithium that met on the sidelines of a conference in Nanchang in southern China, said one person who attended the meeting and five others briefed on the discussions...

 
BEIJING, March 31 (Reuters) - "China's top lithium producers agreed this week to set a floor price of 250,000 yuan ($36,380) per tonne of lithium carbonate, six people familiar with the matter said, in an effort to slow a plunge in the price of the battery raw material.

"The price was agreed on Tuesday by around 10 companies including Tianqi Lithium and Ganfeng Lithium that met on the sidelines of a conference in Nanchang in southern China, said one person who attended the meeting and five others briefed on the discussions...


I'm not sure how the price of lithium carbonate in China directly relates to the prices that Australian producers like IGO and AKE get. Is it about the same for the same product, or does it depend on the type of lithium product they produce. It's a bit opaque to me, or I just don't understand the market enough. The bottom of the attached chart is $45K a tonne.

Screenshot 2023-04-02 at 9.10.20 am.pngScreenshot 2023-04-02 at 9.11.25 am.png
 
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